SWA Satellite Bases?

[BigDave]

I know the FA's at SWA are moving forwarder with satellite base negotiations , is it the same for the pilots?

Also are the pilots going through RNP training yet?

Thanks

 

[N1atEcon]

As far as I know it is one satellite base (test run). The pilots have no such plans that I have heard of. We have stated the computer based training and book study portions of the RNP.

 

[scoreboardII]

SWA is only up to training for autothrottles and VNAV, it turns on in Jan 09. Maybe.

Satellite bases for pilots? Nope, and I hope not.

Why? Almost 50% of the pilots commute, if your a commuter, a satellite base NOT where you live will destroy your QOL and pay by taking trips from the domicile, and leaves you with fewer choices, specifically commutable trips. If you live in domicile you will see fewer choices and reduced QOL/pay, no matter your seniority.

Satellites benefit very few, it benefits the company, and should only be approved if the pilots get a payback for the opportunity to take it in the shorts over this issue.

 

[DX Jake]

As far as I know it is one satellite base (test run). The pilots have no such plans that I have heard of. We have stated the computer based training and book study portions of the RNP.

really? what's your source of info for this "test run" ?

 

[ASADFW7]

The view of satellite bases has many sides. One side is reducing hotel costs for the company allowing the employees to keep their wages from under pressure of the economy. COLA is affecting all work groups. The company may be able to reduce hotel costs and keep wages rising with COLA. Whether a worker commutes or not, the benefit to wages is shared.

If you do not commute and want to keep QOL above reducing costs in other areas, wages will eventually be under pressure as other costs rise pressuring lower wages across the board.

Another aspect with satellite bases is circumventing QOL at domicles and contractually agreed upon work rules at the master domiciles. Relief from work rules at the satellite bases could provide wage relief from the contract. Not a good thing for the negotiating capital already spent.

Where one aspect of satellite bases may be a benefit to wages at the company, QOL and work rule adjustments may be more a negative. I work in Midway and commute from a big commuter base. I would like to see more full fledged crew bases as opposed to mini bases. I see an actual crew base reducing hotel costs, however not giving up work rules and QOL issues.

In the long run cost pressures will change the landscape at SWA how it changes will be determined.

 

[mrebuck]

Can someone explain what is a satellite base?

 

[Alcatraz]

Can someone explain what is a satellite base?

The definition varies depending on who you talk to. Generally it's where you would have a "sub" base to your "real" base... for example, you'd be based in Chicago and bid on lines that all start and end in Kansas City (no commute necessary if you live in Kansas City). Sometimes your seniority in Chicago would allow you to hold a Kansas City based line, and sometimes not. Now what you do if a junior person gets "stuck" in a satellite base is up for discussion (like do they get deadhead pay, and a hotel?), and whether you have "base protection" from displacement in satellites makes things complicated. Add in the issue of covering sick calls at a satellite base and your definition can vary some more. Which brings up the question, if you're going to have reserves in a city and all this other "like-a-base-but-not-a-base" stuff, why not just make it a crew base?

I know I didn't really answer your question, but "satellite basing" isn't something that's been done successfully at any large modern airline for an extended period of time, so the concept is still in it's infancy. When people mention "satellite basing," people have many ideas about what they think it is.

 

[FR8dognit]

There was a survey in the FA's bid packet for the month of Jan.

SATT. Bases are bad for all but a small % of our group. Great for the company though.

 

[murano]

....are bad for all but a small % of our group.

This sounds so familiar. What was that again? ... oh YEAH... Age 65!!

 

[mrebuck]

Thank you Alcatraz. That answers my question. Now I see why a satellite base sucks for most pilots.

 

[FR8dognit]

This sounds so familiar. What was that again? ... oh YEAH... Age 65!!

And it [AGE 65] happened....Unfortunately I see this in our future too. Looks like we could get the shaft twice in two years if we are not careful. So much for QOL living in domicile.

I wonder if the 300+ living in SAT and AUS know there will probably only be about 5 or 6 lines to fight over and the other 294 of them will have less to choose from in their commuter city?

 

[slaquer5]

I wonder if the 300+ living in SAT and AUS know there will probably only be about 5 or 6 lines to fight over and the other 294 of them will have less to choose from in their commuter city?

Answer no. Look on pprune they are the ones saying satellite bases will have NO effect on the number of lines at base. dont shoot the messenger, that is how they think.

 

[Whataburger]

Answer no. Look on pprune they are the ones saying satellite bases will have NO effect on the number of lines at base. dont shoot the messenger, that is how they think.

I just hope they come to a conclusin so RR will quit wasting ink in the RP.

 

[DH2WN]

I just hope they come to a conclusin so RR will quit wasting ink in the RP.

That guy is completely annoying. He was supposed to retire at age 60 too? Figures!!

 

[Charlie Brown]

You guys don't know what you're talking about.

True, there will be only a handful of lines in a "Satellite" city. Nobody will need to worry about being displaced there, as they will go senior. With only a handful of lines, it will not adversely effect the main domicile lines and if anything would likely improve most people's relative seniority due to more senior pilots flying out of the Sat. bases. This has been done before in the past successfully at other carriers. SWA is not inventing anything.

Since I don't know all the particulars of what the CO would offer I can't say if I would support Sat. bases or not, but even though you all obviously don't have a cross-country commute for the foreseeable future like our junior captains and F/O's, please keep an open mind before saying "SAT bases suck!". If done properly, it could be a win/win for everyone involved; company, commuters, and in-domicile types, too.

 

[Charlie Brown]

I know I didn't really answer your question, but "satellite basing" isn't something that's been done successfully at any large modern airline for an extended period of time, so the concept is still in it's infancy. When people mention "satellite basing," people have many ideas about what they think it is.

TWA, PanAm, and to a certain degree, Jetblue with MCO.

 

[Charlie Brown]

If you live in domicile you will see fewer choices and reduced QOL/pay, no matter your seniority.

Satellites benefit very few, it benefits the company, and should only be approved if the pilots get a payback for the opportunity to take it in the shorts over this issue.

Opinion. Do you have facts to back this claim up?

 

[Charlie Brown]

I wonder if the 300+ living in SAT and AUS know there will probably only be about 5 or 6 lines to fight over and the other 294 of them will have less to choose from in their commuter city?

Well, if that is true, it would be only 5 or 6 less? What's the big deal with that?

 

[Flying the Line]

Hopefully they would be all one day trips.

 

[jhill]

I know the FA's at SWA are moving forwarder with satellite base negotiations , is it the same for the pilots?

Also are the pilots going through RNP training yet?

Thanks

What the he!! does "forwarder" mean?

 

[BigDave]

What the he!! does "forwarder" mean?

Comes from the Latin, "forwardo", meaning to misspell, or to mistype.

 

[scoreboardII]

Opinion. Do you have facts to back this claim up?

Yes, it's called deductive reasoning. What proof do you have it won't? None.

When the domicile loses a line to a satellite, that line is lost to everyone in domicile, unless you want to non rev/commute to the satellite.

Your statement of the line going very senior is, well very telling... So you want all the domicile pilots to give this up so the senior folks can live in their second vacation home? Nope. Burned once on age 60, thank you...

No matter what line is removed from the domicicle, it has a measure of QOL and PAY. Someone in Domicile who is very senior may just forever lose his/her favorite overnight so the company can save a few bucks and make someone in the satellite who may or may not have seniority, very, very happy.

I notice you didn't disagree that ALL commuters will be hosed either way, unless you live in the satellite... Also telling...

 

[FR8dognit]

Well, if that is true, it would be only 5 or 6 less? What's the big deal with that?

....did i forget to mention that any chance at having an extra night at home (overnight in home city) for said JR. crew member that commutes and can't hold one of those select home city lines goes out the window.
Charlie Brown....face it....it is a bad deal for all but a very....and I do mean very few people. If it takes 1 line away from those that CHOOSE to live in domicile have to pick from, it hurts us.
It would be a good thing for the company...bad for the group as a whole.

-FR8
KEEP MY LINES IN DALLAS!
ALL OF THEM!
Merry Christmas Charlie Brown

 

[snozberry]

....did i forget to mention that any chance at having an extra night at home (overnight in home city) for said JR. crew member that commutes and can't hold one of those select home city lines goes out the window.
Charlie Brown....face it....it is a bad deal for all but a very....and I do mean very few people. If it takes 1 line away from those that CHOOSE to live in domicile have to pick from, it hurts us.
It would be a good thing for the company...bad for the group as a whole.


If the crew member is going to lose a chance to bid for an overnight in his home town, then his home town is probably a satellite base. Therefore he'd be happier because he wouldn't have to commute. That would give him at least one extra night home every week, even more with the ability to do 2 days or turns. As far as the people who live in domicile, yes there will be less lines. But there will also be less people bidding for them. From my understanding, the FA's were polled to see where most of them commute from. Then the company narrowed the bases down to the ones that had enough aircraft overnighting to make it work. WN isn't trying to make satellite bases where nobody lives. They're trying to make them where people want to live and there's enough to staff them already.

 

[GuppyWN]

I, for one, will never vote yes for something that restricts my flexibility and satellite bases will do just that.

Gup

 

[Whataburger]

I think it's another way to stroke the senior folks. They got 65, now lets make improvements that directly help the 91000 who got hired in sept up to and including #736. How about FO reps in every base? How about paid leave for ALL pilots who have kids? How about helping out the new guys commuting coast to coast until 2010? Are any of those more "junior" issues being discussed? No because this is the first time we've really seen seniority stagnate, and it's been a long time since the senior folks have been junior. We're a big-boy airline now so lets take care of EVERYONE, not just the few who thankfully gave their blood, sweat, and tears 38yrs ago.

 

[FR8dognit]

If the crew member is going to lose a chance to bid for an overnight in his home town, then his home town is probably a satellite base. Therefore he'd be happier because he wouldn't have to commute. That would give him at least one extra night home every week, even more with the ability to do 2 days or turns. As far as the people who live in domicile, yes there will be less lines. But there will also be less people bidding for them. From my understanding, the FA's were polled to see where most of them commute from. Then the company narrowed the bases down to the ones that had enough aircraft overnighting to make it work. WN isn't trying to make satellite bases where nobody lives. They're trying to make them where people want to live and there's enough to staff them already.

NOT so.....the pilot I am refering to is the one of 294 as stated before that is not senior enough to hold that HOME CITY line.

Bottom line....it hurts a non commuter (fewer lines)

It hurts the commuter who is not senoir enough to hold said satt. base. (most of the commuters) [less to choose from in city he/she commutes to...hence less flexability and no overnights in home city]
So for all but a small % of pilots or FA's this is a bad deal PERIOD.

 

[Charlie Brown]

How about FO reps in every base? How about paid leave for ALL pilots who have kids? How about helping out the new guys commuting coast to coast until 2010? Are any of those more "junior" issues being discussed? No because this is the first time we've really seen seniority stagnate, and it's been a long time since the senior folks have been junior. We're a big-boy airline now so lets take care of EVERYONE, not just the few who thankfully gave their blood, sweat, and tears 38yrs ago.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Charlie Brown]

NOT so.....the pilot I am refering to is the one of 294 as stated before that is not senior enough to hold that HOME CITY line.

Bottom line....it hurts a non commuter (fewer lines)

It hurts the commuter who is not senoir enough to hold said satt. base. (most of the commuters) [less to choose from in city he/she commutes to...hence less flexibility and no overnights in home city]
So for all but a small % of pilots or FA's this is a bad deal PERIOD.

I see what you're saying and that is something that would have to be addressed. Since it is all speculation at this point, keep an open mind when the time comes to discuss it in detail. That's all I am asking. I may agree with you when the particulars are ironed out. One thing in the FA trial is finding a replacement should you have to call in sick. That is BS for a couple of reasons (I don't get paid to do scheduling's job, if I am sick I don't want to be making all kinds of phone calls, etc.) so things like this are unacceptable. I am certain of one thing though; if it saves SWA a lot of $$$, they will do it. It will be up to us to make it fair and equitable to the entire group.

Merry Christmas to you too!

 

[ASADFW7]

For all those who do not want satellite bases as hotel costs rise look for pressure on wages down the road. I am not in favor in weakening bases only keeping wages strong. Flexibility includes moving your cheese temporarily.