AirTran Airways pilots launch ALPA ballot drive!

[gt1900]

Give the power BACK to the individual pilots, FORCE the BoD to do what the pilots direct, and you'll have a wall that management can't penetrate.



Your kidding right??? How many "WALLS" did managment penetrate with ALPA??? Where do I start. UAL pension is gone, so is USAIRS, Alaska took a 28% paycut that NONE of them voted on. ALA pilots had NO say over their paycuts. ATA pilots out on the streets. DAL's pension is gone.... I could keep going and going and going..... All these company's had "WALLS" that managment broke through. Some in Bankruptcy, some not. Either way, managment forced these groups to do what they wanted them too. Your kidding yourself if you think AAI managment can't break right through an ALPA "WALL"....

 

[gt1900]

The Local MEC brought in National's EF&A folks to analyze the state of the Company and make recommendations. The EF&A folks told the MEC that the Company could use some help and that the offer was a pretty good one. They recommended we accept it.


THE COMPANY COULD USE SOME HELP............ How much does ALA really need in the bank?? How much money has ALA been making the last couple years??? ALA is one of the most finacially sound airlines there is, yet EF&A told the them the company needed help????????

Guess what, when AAI's managment asked for "help" the NPA told managment to shove it...... AAI was, and is, in a far worse situation then ALA..... Ill take NPA over ALPA any day.....

You act like an 11% pay cut would have been just great. Thats what ALPA suggested you do?? Are you friggen kidding me???? Tell ALA you weren't going to take a pay cut. Tell them to screw off because they didn't need the paycuts. Thats what the NPA did when AAI "needed" paycuts....

That is enough proof to me that ALPA has no backbone..... Suggesting you guys take an 11% paycut when the company didn't need it.....

 

[Lear70]

Your kidding right??? How many "WALLS" did managment penetrate with ALPA??? Where do I start. UAL pension is gone, so is USAIRS, Alaska took a 28% paycut that NONE of them voted on. ALA pilots had NO say over their paycuts. ATA pilots out on the streets. DAL's pension is gone.... I could keep going and going and going..... All these company's had "WALLS" that managment broke through. Some in Bankruptcy, some not. Either way, managment forced these groups to do what they wanted them too. Your kidding yourself if you think AAI managment can't break right through an ALPA "WALL"....

That's two, different issues, and you know it.

But, in your emotional rant, you aren't debating logically.

We have a problem currently where, despite the urgings of the pilot group, LOA's are getting signed that the pilot group would never ratify.

The "wall" I'm speaking of is one where that circumstance CANNOT happen unless the PILOTS allow it (which is how some of those carriers you mentioned ended up with cuts rather than face an arbitrator or judge's ruling on the cuts). You knew it, yet you went on your hijack rant anyway.

You and others here keep arguing by twisting things people say to fit arguments YOU want to make, instead of debating the argument the other person actually made.

Everyone here sees through it.

If you don't like ALPA for personal reasons, that's fine. But the irrational arguments you and 2 others are making aren't holding up to the facts.

 

[gt1900]

Its not irrational..... Its how the company's broke through the "Walls". They can do it in or out of bankruptcy, either way, the company's broke ALPA down and got what they wanted. Some of it was indeed forced on ALPA, but, if you think AAI can't do the same exact thing with ALPA on property, your way off. I really have nothing against ALPA with the exception that Ive seen them allow way to much chit to go on and show absolutly no regard to the pilots with many carriers, especially the regionals. Have you not read flightinfo? Have you read any of the posts where guys who are currently alpa are sick of ALPA?? Yet you somehow think its going to be better with them on property at AAI???

Lear... Explain to me why ALPA bent over with ALA and suggested they take an 11% pay cut? ALA is a very strong company with a ton of money in the bank and a great route structure with a lot of guaranteed revenue..

 

[Lear70]

Its not irrational..... Its how the company's broke through the "Walls". They can do it in or out of bankruptcy, either way, the company's broke ALPA down and got what they wanted.

Be specific. Quote the exact circumstances you are referring to here. Because, if memory serves, it wasn't the company that "broke ALPA down", it was the bankruptcy judges gutting contracts and retirements and the fear of those JUDGES, not fear of management, that drove other airlines to vote in concessions.

Some of it was indeed forced on ALPA, but, if you think AAI can't do the same exact thing with ALPA on property, your way off. I really have nothing against ALPA with the exception that Ive seen them allow way to much chit to go on and show absolutly no regard to the pilots with many carriers, especially the regionals. Have you not read flightinfo? Have you read any of the posts where guys who are currently alpa are sick of ALPA?? Yet you somehow think its going to be better with them on property at AAI???

There's FAR fewer posts that are anti-ALPA, especially on our internal board, than there are anti-Teamsters and anti-ALPA posts.

If you don't have anything against ALPA, why do you fight so hard against them? I'm calling bullsh*t.

Lear... Explain to me why ALPA bent over with ALA and suggested they take an 11% pay cut? ALA is a very strong company with a ton of money in the bank and a great route structure with a lot of guaranteed revenue..

Someone already did. You evidently didn't like the answer. Mine's not going to be any different.

 

[gt1900]

Who took the company's into bankruptcy? Managment did. Managment used the bankruptcy judges to get what they wanted. Simple as that. If they would have never taken the company's into BK then the judges could never have gutted the contracts. Management used the judges to gut the contracts.

Someone already did. You evidently didn't like the answer. Mines not going to be any different.

No they didn't explain it. They said that they went to arbitration because the ALA pilots thought they could get a better deal through arbitration. NO ONE OVER EXPLAINED WHY ALPA THOUGHT ALA PILOTS NEED AN 11% PAY CUT. I want to know why ALPA suggested the pilots of ALA take an 11% pay cut when ALA is a perfectly stable and finacially secure airline? Please, explain to me why ALPA rolled over.

Im fighting against ALPA because I have seen them do absolutely nothing for the airlines. I have seen them support the age 65 ruling, support paycuts for pilots, not stand up for pilots when they could, etc etc etc........ I don't hate ALPA, I just don't want them on property. I think we can do better by ourselves. I don't watn them telling our BOD to take a pay cut to help out the company, when the company doesn't need it....

 

[Lear70]

Who took the company's into bankruptcy? Managment did. Managment used the bankruptcy judges to get what they wanted. Simple as that. If they would have never taken the company's into BK then the judges could never have gutted the contracts. Management used the judges to gut the contracts.

The same circumstances as they had then don't exist anymore, number one.

Number two, again, management had no guarantee that the judges would do that. I believe they succeeded more than they ever thought possible. I also believe it wouldn't happen that way again. Especially not for the next 4-8 years.

So no, I don't believe you hold a valid argument moving forward.

Someone already did. You evidently didn't like the answer. Mines not going to be any different.

No they didn't explain it. They said that they went to arbitration because the ALA pilots thought they could get a better deal through arbitration. NO ONE OVER EXPLAINED WHY ALPA THOUGHT ALA PILOTS NEED AN 11% PAY CUT. I want to know why ALPA suggested the pilots of ALA take an 11% pay cut when ALA is a perfectly stable and finacially secure airline? Please, explain to me why ALPA rolled over.

ALPA National didn't do anything. The LOCAL MEC did. I don't think you understand the history accurately.

It's up to us to vote in ALPA to give us access to their assets. It's also up to us to make sure we put people in office who won't cave.

Questions?

Im fighting against ALPA because I have seen them do absolutely nothing for the airlines. I have seen them support the age 65 ruling, support paycuts for pilots, not stand up for pilots when they could, etc etc etc........ I don't hate ALPA, I just don't want them on property. I think we can do better by ourselves. I don't watn them telling our BOD to take a pay cut to help out the company, when the company doesn't need it....

Again, you're not speaking accurately of what happened.

Secondly, you're acting like we're doing SO much better without ALPA now. We don't have the money to match Kolski with the legal firepower that is required.

You're living in a fantasy land that history has PROVEN is not even remotely connected with fact.

 

[gt1900]

ALPA National didn't do anything. The LOCAL MEC did. I don't think you understand the history accurately.

Argueing with you is like talking to a wall.... The poster said ALPA national looked into ALA's finacial situation and said that ALA need help. Lear, Why are you ignoring that? National also said that the pilots SHOULD accept an 11% pay cut. That is what the above poster said. Simple as that. Why did ALPA suggest the pilots of ALA take an 11% pay cut. ANSWER the FRIGGEN quesiton.......


Did or did not ALPA support the age 65 rule? Simple question. Yes or No........

 

[PCL_128]

You don't understand the situation, gt1900. If they refused to take the 11% reduction, which they did, then they were subject to binding arbitration. Keeping 100% of what they had with no possibility of arbitration wasn't an option. It was either take the small paycut, or risk arbitration and a huge paycut. ALPA's advice turned out to be exactly right, since they ended up with a 35% paycut instead of just 11%. I don't see how you can keep arguing this.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Because, he's a card carrying ALPA hater. He's not putting it into the historical context.

At the time, Alaska wasn't as economically well off as it is today.

But, his agenda is apparent.