AirTran Airways pilots launch ALPA ballot drive!

[PCL_128]

And what is the pilot group doing now to boot this guy as President?

We've recalled reps over and over again. It doesn't do any good. The problem is the overall structure.

 

[Regul8r]

We've recalled reps over and over again. It doesn't do any good. The problem is the overall structure.

If the problem is the structure...why not change the structure?

 

[gt1900]

And we are supposed to listen to a guy like you PCL who payed for a job? Who screwed numerous people out of paying jobs so you could buy your way to the top? Now your on the ALPA band wagon because you think they are the magic answer???? ALPA carriers took it in the &#&^ after 9/11. ALPA bent over and let UAL take it, DAL, ALA, USAIR, CAL, and numerous other carriers. Yet SWA, UPS, and AMR are 3 of the 4 highest paid carriers in the industry. Only 1 of the 4 highes paid carriers is ALPA... Yet ALPA carriers took the highes pay cuts of all the airlines... This is what you guys wanna sign up for???

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
For someone that appears some what articulate it is baffling to watch your mindless, blinded, cult like obsession to a organization that has clearly lost touch.

Once again you miss the point...

ALPA maybe be FUBAR, however what is the alternative? If ALPA has flaws then lets fix them.

Good Luck, sad to watch, but good luck none the less.

Also, keep religion out of it, you don't know who might be reading your type set diarrhea.

Once again you fail to address the points of my post.


Can you provide and objective analysis of what would happen to the Skywest pilot group if ALPA became non existent?

A parable would be what would happen to a welfare recipient if the state became non existent.


Please provide your thoughts...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

And we are supposed to listen to a guy like you PCL who payed for a job? Who screwed numerous people out of paying jobs so you could buy your way to the top? Now your on the ALPA band wagon because you think they are the magic answer????

The guy admitted his mistake. He now speaks against people who are looking to take the route he did...

What else do you want?

ALPA carriers took it in the &#&^ after 9/11. ALPA bent over and let UAL take it, DAL, ALA, USAIR, CAL, and numerous other carriers.

Voted on by each pilot. If you don't like it... the query each and every pilot.

Yet SWA, UPS, and AMR are 3 of the 4 highest paid carriers in the industry.

If you compare the UPS and FDX contract it is clear that the UPS contract is a company friendly contract... passed by a small majority.

Whereas the FDX contract passed with a high majority... clearly a pilot friendly contract.

Only 1 of the 4 highes paid carriers is ALPA... Yet ALPA carriers took the highes pay cuts of all the airlines... This is what you guys wanna sign up for???

SWA and UPS are enjoying a relatively good business model and leadership.... and so is FDX.

AMR... or specifically the APA, has had some serious blunders... the sick out and $45M fine and recall the B scale in the 1980's that UAL pilots were forced to contend with, went to the mat with management, struck UAL and defeated the B scale. Thanks APA. In addition, UAL had the 570. 570 new hire pilots that were used as negotiation "hostages". U-ALPA didn't cave and ensured those pilots returned to work....with seniority.


One reason why the UPS contract is weaker than the FDX contract is the ability to strike. ALPA can afford to support a striking pilot group. In house unions cannot.

Thus, the trouble with the NPA at Airtran. They will never get a fair contract because management knows they do not have the resources (IOW the money) to strike.

Why does management have to negotiate with Airtran pilots? FL pilots don't have leverage, or the threat of a strike... until they do, not much will change...

 

[JumpersAway]

I helped negotiate 2 seperate wage increase programs for the pilots at SkyWest.

But because it was not under a format that you can understand, you can do nothing but belittle it.

Trying to negotiate a contract now, with this economy, would be foolish. Most airlines have one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel.

Negotiate? Who are you kidding- you were "given" a wage increase- and it was only what SkyWest was willing to give you, and nothing more.

 

[knowlimits]

ALPA at ValuTran? Why not. ALPA let the CAL scabs back in...

 

[Regul8r]

If ALPA has flaws then lets fix them.

I agree. If the NPA has flaws, then fix those.

 

[Lear70]

I agree. If the NPA has flaws, then fix those.

That's been tried.

For years.

One reason why the UPS contract is weaker than the FDX contract is the ability to strike. ALPA can afford to support a striking pilot group. In house unions cannot.

Thus, the trouble with the NPA at Airtran. They will never get a fair contract because management knows they do not have the resources (IOW the money) to strike.

Why does management have to negotiate with Airtran pilots? FL pilots don't have leverage, or the threat of a strike... until they do, not much will change...

End of discussion.

You guys can be mad at ALPA all you want, but those are the simple, bottom-line facts.

You want change? NOTHING but FORCE is going to accomplish it. The only way to force anything with the RLA is with the ABILITY to strike. Without a war chest, a strike isn't going to happen.

Sorry you don't like it, but those facts are simply indisputable, with YEARS of history at AirTran behind it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yet SWA, UPS, and AMR are 3 of the 4 highest paid carriers in the industry. Only 1 of the 4 highes paid carriers is ALPA... Yet ALPA carriers took the highes pay cuts of all the airlines... This is what you guys wanna sign up for???

If APA or SWAPA wanted to represent us, then your argument might have some validity. The NPA vs ALPA? No question there, start sending me my expensive magazine, already.

 

[Regul8r]

End of discussion.

You guys can be mad at ALPA all you want, but those are the simple, bottom-line facts.

You want change? NOTHING but FORCE is going to accomplish it. The only way to force anything with the RLA is with the ABILITY to strike. Without a war chest, a strike isn't going to happen.

Sorry you don't like it, but those facts are simply indisputable, with YEARS of history at AirTran behind it.

So having a war-chest is going to strike fear into the heart of your management and they will acquiesce to your demands? Interesting...

As for the UPS vs FDX contracts...absolutely right: UPS has a bush league contract. Those guys got SCREWED! Man, what a bunch'a losers!

 

[Ty Webb]

UPS transitioned from IBT to their independent union . . . just a little different.

What do you care, anyway? If you're at FL, then how about a nice warm cup of STFU. .. . . If you aren't at FL, have two.

Ty

 

[Regul8r]

I disagree with you, therefore I need to serve myself a cup (preferably warm) of STFU? Seems like a well articulated statement based in maturity, wisdom, and pragmatism...

And you're pro-ALPA, huh? Cute...

 

[Lear70]

So having a war-chest is going to strike fear into the heart of your management and they will acquiesce to your demands? Interesting...

That's your assumption... and you're welcome to it.

It's not, however, what I said. Try again. Without putting your own spin on it. That's what people who have no argument to directly defend their position do.

If you have a way for the pilots at AirTran to be able to develop their own multi-million dollar contingency strike fund/war chest of well over $5 Million Dollars PLUS add to their personal savings level inside of a year (pilot payroll is estimated between $1.1M and 1.4M per month), then please let us know.

Without a strike fund, the pilots at ANY airline find it more difficult to stomach a strike. Yes, the pilot group needs unity. Yes, the pilot group needs resolve. And a way to continue to feed their children and keep the lights on is part of that resolve.

But you knew that, you were simply being childish.

Now try an adult's response to the post.

 

[Regul8r]

That's your assumption... and you're welcome to it.

It's not, however, what I said. Try again. Without putting your own spin on it. That's what people who have no argument to directly defend their position do.

Sure...I sensationalized it some...but the point still stands. Rez directly implied that having a war-chest will gain leverage at the negotiating table. A more realistic response would be that it would only gain some leverage. But from what I see...you guys are helpless when it comes to voting in poor officers. Now you're going to have ill-equipped officers wearing ALPA badges.

If you have a way for the pilots at AirTran to be able to develop their own multi-million dollar contingency strike fund/war chest of well over $5 Million Dollars PLUS add to their personal savings level inside of a year (pilot payroll is estimated between $1.1M and 1.4M per month), then please let us know.

If the strike fund had the desired effect you'd like, why do you still have Pinnacle and Mesa contracts out there? What did it do for the Midwest or DHL pilots? How about the Aloha or ATA pilots? How about the Mesa pilots who will soon be flying as Aloha pilots?

I'm ready for the knee-jerk response "Well, if you look at FedEx..."

Without a strike fund, the pilots at ANY airline find it more difficult to stomach a strike. Yes, the pilot group needs unity. Yes, the pilot group needs resolve...

You've answered your own problem: The pilot group needs unity and resolve. ALPA isn't the merry-maid of the industry. If you can't get your own house in order, what makes you think ALPA will do it for you?

The "I tried nuthin' and I'm all outta ideas" attitude is just as prevalent at ALPA carriers as well.