USAPA and the Domicile meeting for PHX/LAS

[Bringupthebird]

On that same note, would it be unreasonable to expect the ex amer west pilots to abandon NIC for now, move on unified and build a winning airline? Not likely! We will have to agree to disagree. Oh well, our fate is in Doug's hands now!!

Abandoning the NIC award gives tacit approval to abrogating binding arbitration. Abandoning DOH, on the other hand, allows the integration to proceed, a joint contract to be implemented and seniority to be revisited during the next contract cycle. By following the rules, USAPA gains credibility and maybe relevance in the future.

Implementing the NIC allows USAPA to clearly avoid any appearance of impropriety by fulfilling it's obligation to the west pilot which it inherited from ALPA. After that is done, they can turn their attention to satisfying the blood lust of the extremes in the east (should there be sufficient political will to do so).

Once the joint contract is complete and the seniority list integrated under NIC, any other moves made by a UNIFIED USAPA cannot be characterised as tyranny, but simply the will of the majority. It is really the only out that USAPA has if it wants to establish itself as a credible union.

Otherwise it's a yapping junkyard Yorkie.

 

[Fast43]

give us new pay rates and work rules and let us operate seperately like we are right now." Doug could give us the new USAPA pay rates and work rules, but he refuses to. Look at DAL/NWA no seniority list, but new pay and contract. DOUG is to blame, Doug is to blame, and Doug is to blame. We need to be upset with Rio Salado Drive not CLT vs. PHX. DOUG is Evil!!!

You can't be serious...........

Why would he give any of us anything just because we think he should.

Giving the east pay parity will insure that he will never have a Joint contract with all LCC pilots. If he can enjoy east flying at a discount, why wouldn't he do that for as long as usapa wants to chase its tail over a new seniority list.

Fast

 

[Fast43]

I'm on the street after 4 years, I brought a job to this merger. Yet you... a new hire is still providing for your family.....you have alot to learn about people and this industry.


You brought a worthless job to the merger. AWA would have been gone had they not merged. USair East is subsidizing the operations out west since the merger. Very low revenue out West. Maybe they will close the whole West down. Then the Westies do not have to worry about USAPA anymore.

By the way. New seniority numbers are out for East pilots. Still lots of attrition. Many have moved up quite a deal. To bad we are still shrinking. Without the attrition we would have seen a lot more furloughs out East.

By the way most former USAIR East furloughed pilots are holding blocks and are flying Widebodies to Europe again, just like the did prior to 9/11/2001.
This thanks to the min. block hours and min hull required by LOA 93. These are East jobs bought to the merger and Westies want them. Westies want to take East positions and they want to fly Widebodies. If not, they would agree to a long fence.

AWA pilot group just like the prop 8 group out in CAL.

M

Can not wait for some of junior Westies who infest this board to chime in.

Isn't all the flying being done by returning furloughees, a result of the Merger? If you say no, then please offer some sort of proof that they would be doing that same flying now without the merger.


Fast

 

[cactusboy53]

On that same note, would it be unreasonable to expect the ex amer west pilots to abandon NIC for now, move on unified and build a winning airline? Not likely! We will have to agree to disagree. Oh well, our fate is in Doug's hands now!!

Yea, that'll happen....NOT. Don't worry though, the AWA group is unified like never before. Our fate is in the court system's hands. Parker won't do anthing until the court system says he has to, and then he will look to Bradford and Seham and say "Sorry guys, they made me do it."

 

[get2flyin]

Isn't all the flying being done by returning furloughees, a result of the Merger? If you say no, then please offer some sort of proof that they would be doing that same flying now without the merger.


Fast

SiouxHockeyFan...do you want to take this question? I see you are on the 190 but weren't a returning furlough.

 

[get2flyin]

On that same note, would it be unreasonable to expect the ex amer west pilots to abandon NIC for now, move on unified and build a winning airline? Not likely! We will have to agree to disagree. Oh well, our fate is in Doug's hands now!!

Sioux, what you fail to realize is that the East pretends to want to use the NIC as a starting point vs. DOH *(Giving the appearance they are willing to negotiate an agreement. Don't believe it, anything besides DOH is unacceptable to them).

The NIC award was a blending of the West proposal and the East proposal. It's the middle of the ice, so why should we then work toward a "middle ground" from there? That means the "new middle" would theoretically be 75% of what they originally asked for.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Yea, that'll happen....NOT. Don't worry though, the AWA group is unified like never before. Our fate is in the court system's hands. Parker won't do anthing until the court system says he has to, and then he will look to Bradford and Seham and say "Sorry guys, they made me do it."

Cactusboy-Well I guess we all have an opinion in regards to the debaucle we all call US Airways. As I await another certified letter asking me to go back to work I shall sit and only hope for the best in regards to us all. When I say all I mean US AIR, AMER WEST, and all of us hired and placed east or west after the merger. Maybe one day we will see lanyards around our necks that say "Seniority and Integrity Matters." That would be a treat for all to see. A pilot group with solidarity.

 

[imacdog]

Maybe one day we will see lanyards around our necks that say "Seniority and Integrity Matters." That would be a treat for all to see. A pilot group with solidarity.

Yes, that would be consistent with following the Nic award. That award was based on relative seniority, not longevity. There is a difference, as you know.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Maybe he does,but I betcha alot of his new-found flying buddies don't.

PHXFLYR

 

[BeCareful!]

The NIC award was a blending of the West proposal and the East proposal. It's the middle of the ice, so why should we then work toward a "middle ground" from there?

God help me you guys actually believe this stuff....hilarious.

BTW there are over 500 West pilots who are members, applications accepted and all. However, very few of them are in good standing, something that has absolutely nothing to do with USAPA and everything to do with the fact that no dues are being paid.

None of what has been said on this thread about USAPA delaying or not acting on the applications is true. Zero.

You guys lie so much on this forum (and others, from what I hear), and I wonder: what exactly do you think you're accomplishing? Pretty funny, really.

Good luck with the DFR suit. I think Doug put it to you pretty well in that last meeting. He made it very clear that USAPA is the union for pilots at US Airways; your choice to not let them represent you is just that: your choice.

Conditions and Restrictions.....you ought to look into them and get real about what you really deserve in this deal. With LAS and PHX looking at a 25% reduction in revenue, do you guys ever look in the mirror and wonder: "who saved who?" Once you stop your pompus giggle, think again about how many times East management had cried wolf about CH7 over that past two decades. The east coast is where the money is, and accountants have done a masterful job over the years of making sure that money ended up in the hands of the CEO, COO, CFO, CXO, CBO, CGO, every f-in CandO type other than the blue collar workers at this joint.

Finally, ALPA is gone. If you'd get off the Intenet, pay your legally required dues, and go to a BPR meeting, you'd soon realize how much better off we are than having that lame bunch of self serving, bureaucratic a$$holes happy to run our QOL into the ground so long as they don't have to go fly the line under the s h i t t y contracts they allowed to get passed on to the membership.

 

[Carl S.]

The West pilots can't even join USAPA till 30 days after the correction to their CBL's are changed! So no money is due till the new clock starts in early Dec. and then 90 days till Section 29 starts. The delay in the injuction/DFR case is taking longer than expected, but it only took 2 days to throw out the USAPA/RICO case with prejudice!

P.S.- Lots of twice bankrupt carriers have saved non- bankrupt carriers NOT! Look at the original SLI openers and see which one Nic. came in closer to.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So Be, What has USAPA actually accomplished? Take all the bandwidth you need.

 

[get2flyin]

So Be, What has USAPA actually accomplished? Take all the bandwidth you need.

Hey, even I can answer that...they've made Seeham, their lawyer, a very wealthy man.

 

[Fast43]

Good luck with the DFR suit. I think Doug put it to you pretty well in that last meeting. He made it very clear that USAPA is the union for pilots at US Airways; your choice to not let them represent you is just that: your choice.

Help me connect the dots here, what does what Doug have to say, have anything to do with the fact that usapa is not representing ALL LCC pilots fairly. What was it he "put to us"???? We know usapa is the legal CBA, maybe you can tell us when they will start acting like it.

Conditions and Restrictions.....you ought to look into them and get real about what you really deserve in this deal. With LAS and PHX looking at a 25% reduction in revenue, do you guys ever look in the mirror and wonder: "who saved who?" Once you stop your pompus giggle, think again about how many times East management had cried wolf about CH7 over that past two decades. The east coast is where the money is, and accountants have done a masterful job over the years of making sure that money ended up in the hands of the CEO, COO, CFO, CXO, CBO, CGO, every f-in CandO type other than the blue collar workers at this joint.



So, to be clear. You are saying that US Airways saved America West ? Do you really look in the mirror and believe that ??


Conditions and Restrictions...........The Judge did look into them and noted that they were a 100% win for the east and 100% loss for the west. Where was this info in the usapa summary of the court hearing? I guess you don't think we deserve much in this deal.


Fast

quote]

 

[becket]

so long as they don't have to go fly the line under the s h i t t y contracts they allowed to get passed on to the membership.

You were ALPA. Your group voted in all deals. Your group of pilots is directly responsible for whatever QOL you have.

If you worked at Airways under the "parity plus 1" deal, (which I'm sure you did as I'm equally sure you're a 99 hire/6year furloughee),where was the outrage then? There was none. ALPA landed you an industry leading contract. Nobody hated ALPA at US Air until their own group voted away their pensions, work rules, and payrates. Then, after agreeing to binding arbitration, they "see the light".

Nobody entered into binding arbitration to set a "bargaining position", everybody knew it was for all the marbles...that's why you guys used your majority to throw a wrench in the system. It will work for awhile, but NIC will be the law of the land. I doubt the judge will want to set the precedent for all future arbitrations that the larger group gets a "do over' if it's not to their liking.


When that gets settled, you'll see West guys join the Union and actually try and get a contract. Until then, expect 1750 insurgents when forced, against their will and conscience to join your fake union.

Nothing you do, say, or threaten will ever change that. Nobody is scared of USAPA. The West doesn't negotiate with Terrorists. Here's a new bag sticker idea, "LOA 93 Till 2093"

Save your pennies...if you can.









.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Ever notice how Be Careful never, ever responds to the tougher responses to his posts,or should I say rants ?? Thanks for trying to set the record straight Becket.


PHXFLYR

 

[m80drvr]

Ever notice how Be Careful never, ever responds to the tougher responses to his posts,or should I say rants ?? Thanks for trying to set the record straight Becket.


PHXFLYR

Same with MCDOOOOOOOSH. They spout off the same UCRAPA boilerplate talking points then don't respond with actual facts.

 

[BeCareful!]

The West pilots can't even join USAPA till 30 days after the correction to their CBL's are changed!

Carl S.,

Do you care to elaborate on this statement relative to the fact that there are over 500 West members right now?

 

[BeCareful!]

Ever notice how Be Careful never, ever responds to the tougher responses to his posts,or should I say rants ?? Thanks for trying to set the record straight Becket.


PHXFLYR

Yeah I just didn't jump on FI.com first thing Sunday morning, PHXFLYR. It's a character flaw.

I see no need in setting anything straight here. There is so much misinformation spewed on FI.com...why fight it?

I know, I know.....you think you have all the facts straight. So proud of ya! Fight on, TruthMeister!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Same with MCDOOOOOOOSH. They spout off the same UCRAPA boilerplate talking points then don't respond with actual facts.

Remember the following when considering ANYTHING that MCDOOSH has to say:


Marty claiming to have started at US Air in 1997
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848411

Marty saying he doesn't even work for US Air.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848465

Marty saying he has nothing to do with the merger.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848322#post848322

Marty claiming to be a UAL pilot.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1224345#post1224345

MCDU:
One of Gulfstream international's best and just 1 airline strike away from his next job.

 

[MCDU]

Dope,

how long did that take to dig up? You are now the official FI detective. Congrats.

Looks like some Loser has a little bit to much time on his hands. Now go back and do some more detective work.

Dope the FI nerd that spends all day doing FI research and FI postings.

Once again. Great job Dope. I bet your big brother is impressed at your research. Now, leave your room and go play. There is more to life then your obsession with Flightinfo.

Now, give a good response. I need a laugh.

M

 

[Carl S.]

USAPA says that there are over 500 members from the West, but the bylaws were just changed so West members could actually become members without a PHX/LAS rep. elected. If it takes 30 days for these new bylaws to become effective, then there are no West members of the Cult till early Dec. and then the dues clocks starts. If this false, why the change to the bylaws and the response from Uncle Al H.?

P.S.- the only truths are what has been done in litigation so far and the Cult has only won the election thru a majority, nothing else.

 

[Fast43]

Yeah I just didn't jump on FI.com first thing Sunday morning, PHXFLYR. It's a character flaw.

I see no need in setting anything straight here. There is so much misinformation spewed on FI.com...why fight it?

I find this statement accurate, as many of the post you speak of come from you !!!!!

I know, I know.....you think you have all the facts straight. So proud of ya! Fight on, TruthMeister!

Actually its quite clear that you don't have access to any "facts" at all. Since all you parrot is was usapa tells you.


Fast

Fast.........

 

[Fast43]

Dope,

how long did that take to dig up? You are now the official FI detective. Congrats.

Looks like some Loser has a little bit to much time on his hands. Now go back and do some more detective work.

Dope the FI nerd that spends all day doing FI research and FI postings.

Once again. Great job Dope. I bet your big brother is impressed at your research. Now, leave your room and go play. There is more to life then your obsession with Flightinfo.

Now, give a good response. I need a laugh.

M

Interesting that at no point in your "rebuttal" post did you rebut anything. Kind of a bitch when you get busted I guess.

Fast

 

[PHXFLYR]

Yeah I just didn't jump on FI.com first thing Sunday morning, PHXFLYR. It's a character flaw.

Yeah, I noticed you seem to wait until lunchtime
instead. Wazzamatta ? Can't get your azz outta bed at a reasonable hour in the morning ??

I see no need in setting anything straight here. There is so much misinformation spewed on FI.com...why fight it?

You should be used to all the spewed misinformation , being a USAPA member and all...

I know, I know.....you think you have all the facts straight.


Compared to you and your buddy MCDU, I sure do.

So proud of ya!

Could really care less whether you are or not.

Fight on, TruthMeister!

Will do. After all someones gotta counter your 'Bullshiet'

Now go out and have a wonderful day.....

PHXFLYR

 

[BeCareful!]

USAPA says that there are over 500 members from the West, but the bylaws were just changed so West members could actually become members without a PHX/LAS rep. elected. If it takes 30 days for these new bylaws to become effective, then there are no West members of the Cult till early Dec. and then the dues clocks starts. If this false, why the change to the bylaws and the response from Uncle Al H.?

P.S.- the only truths are what has been done in litigation so far and the Cult has only won the election thru a majority, nothing else.

Carl S., and PHXPLYR

I'm really sorry you guys have such a lack of understanding, or that you choose to live your life on the Internet in a fog of the misinformation you've decided to brew your anger and hatred in.

Prior to September, USAPA had accepted 643 West pilots as members. There's no BS in this....this is verified. Most were dues objectors.

Carl, the changes to the bylaws were only to clear up the enforcement of section 29, and that's what A.H. was talking about, not the process of becoming a member. That process has resulted in, as I said, 643 West members as of September and who knows how many of them since then. So, you're wrong, and no matter how you word it here on FI.com to try to fool the 25 pilots who give a crap about this issue and actually read this drivel, it doesn't make what you're saying correct.

Everything USAPA has done has been by the letter of the law. The company, too, is in compliance so far, at least as far as how they've interpreted the TA. I was pissed that the furloughs got handled out of seniority (DOH) east vs. west, and I immediately called my reps to let them know. Lot's of us did, and that's one reason a greivance has been filed on the issue.

Here on FI.com things are so "west" in appearance. You guys seem to have more time wasters with the beliefe that posting here is going to change something. I only do it while sitting reserve

But the facts are the facts. 643 as of September. Fact.

 

[Carl S.]

Usapa says that there are 500+ members out West, but the West legal team says we can not be members till we get a rep. to vote us in or the CBL's change and that is what has occurred and AH agrees, now we wait for the NMB Arb. to decide, but the change in CBL's tends to make us think your legal sees a loop hole that we have exploited that you now have plugged, but lost the cash.

If you find FI too West, go to USAVIATION, it is pro East, just like CNN or FOX, pick your spin. All I ask is to seek other info then USAPA updates or you will be disappointed in the legal results from all the pending litigation just like the Nic. award and how the East's expectations were controlled.


P.S.-last time I check, dues objectors were not considered members. I would call my Rep. also, but PHX does not have one and Bradford thinks someone out West will believe DOH and step up(6 months and counting).

 

[get2flyin]

Carl S., and PHXPLYR

I'm really sorry you guys have such a lack of understanding, or that you choose to live your life on the Internet in a fog of the misinformation you've decided to brew your anger and hatred in.

Prior to September, USAPA had accepted 643 West pilots as members. There's no BS in this....this is verified. Most were dues objectors.

Carl, the changes to the bylaws were only to clear up the enforcement of section 29, and that's what A.H. was talking about, not the process of becoming a member. That process has resulted in, as I said, 643 West members as of September and who knows how many of them since then. So, you're wrong, and no matter how you word it here on FI.com to try to fool the 25 pilots who give a crap about this issue and actually read this drivel, it doesn't make what you're saying correct.

Everything USAPA has done has been by the letter of the law. The company, too, is in compliance so far, at least as far as how they've interpreted the TA. I was pissed that the furloughs got handled out of seniority (DOH) east vs. west, and I immediately called my reps to let them know. Lot's of us did, and that's one reason a greivance has been filed on the issue.

Here on FI.com things are so "west" in appearance. You guys seem to have more time wasters with the beliefe that posting here is going to change something. I only do it while sitting reserve

But the facts are the facts. 643 as of September. Fact.

Really? Are you sure that 643 West pilots were members? How is that possible if the USAPA constitution requires new members to be approved by their local council and PHX and LAS had no local council?

Furthermore...after USAPA tried to fire 4 West pilots for non-payment of membership dues, the company AGREED with the West pilots that they couldn't be terminated for non-payment of dues to a union they had not been accepted into. That is why your USAPA buddies amended YOUR constitution to allow membership approval by the MEC instead of the LEC ONE WEEK AGO TODAY, 11/10. Don't believe me? Call you rep again and ask why they changed it if it we were already members.

All sarcasm aside, if you are being honest about calling your rep to voice a concern about West pilots being furloughed before your off the street 190 jockeys, I sincerely appreciate the effort. But contrary to what they may have told you, no grievance has been filed. The West pilots went to USAPA and tried to file a grievance, but they were told there wasn't a compeling case. Have you noticed a pattern of telling EVERYBODY a different answer to the same question, depending on what suits them best? THAT, my friend, is why the West pilots are trying to eliminate USAPA.

 

[BeCareful!]

get2flyin,

I am being perfectly honest. I believe USAPA must behave in a manner consistant with it's stated purpose, which is to represent us all. So far, I have found no evidence to the contrary (since I do not consider Internet rants to be factual evidence.) But that the company was allowed to do this is a travesty, and trust me, they are doing it this way in order to further divide us. It's the most often run play in their playbook.

Having said this, I will look into the grievance that was supposed to be filed. Suspiciously not mentioned on the website right now, even though I'm sure there was mention of it in a recent update.

I'll be at the crewroom meeting in PHL tomorrow and I will get answers and post them when I can. If you're there and I'm wrong, the Burbon Chicken is on me.

BC

 

[Carl S.]

Can you tell me when the PHX crewroom meeting will be? Seems that the USAPA braintrust was in PHX and forgot to hold one, please ask. Also ask about section 29 for East members that are members of USAPA or not members, would hate for that to be the next hold up in my eventual check to USAPA(Because USAPA represents and prosecutes the East and West the same....NOT!)