USAPA and the Domicile meeting for PHX/LAS

[m80drvr]

Financial trouble has nothing to do with my point. I never brought up the finances of the now defunct amer west or the old us airways. Neither pilot group had any handle on finances anyways. Amer west pilots didn't take pay cuts to "save us airways," just like us airways pilots didn't do anything to save amer west. If you still trust Doug after what he has done to both sides you are insane. Doug is the person furloughing the 4.5 year copilot before the 8 month copilot from the east, not us airways east pilots and not USAPA. Doug is the one to blame. We need to agree on one thing and that is to fight against Doug and not each other. We can still disagree about seniority, which we all know will be a disagreement no side will budge on. We need to grow up and at least fight the iron curtian over on Rio Salado Drive.

USAPA was just in court fighting with Doug to let this happen. 6 months ago when a grievance was filed by the west to stop the furloughs USAPA DECLINED to pursue it. No kidding your union said it was ok to furlough the more senior west pilots. It was only AFTER ucrapa was sued that they brought the grievance back. Then like I said UCRAPA argued with the company to make sure the furloughs happen to the west pilots. Some union!

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Hey Idiot.... If you actually knew what was going on you woud realise that USAPA OUR union was just in court fighting WITH the company to keep more senior pilots on the street. Yup DOH only applies if it screwing the west pilots.

Don't get me wrong Doug is a lying a$$whole but a "union" that sells out it's own principles and rules to screw it's own members is a joke. Your "union is fighting to keep more senior pilots on furlough.

Take the assessment for health insurance for the furloughed pilots. Only a member in good standing can get the insurance.......WELLLLLLL their was no vehicle for a west pilot to be a member in good standing by the deadline. It was impossible for the west furloughed pilots to get the same coverage as the east pilots.

I could list a hundred more items like this but you have drank too much east coolaid.

Enjoy your career with usairways......you now work for the worst airline in history and you are a member of the biggest joke of a union.

good luck

Ps if the famed 55 year old pilot was a reverve first officer why should he immediately become a line holding captain at the expense of another younger pilot group. That's fair in your book I guess.

Wait until it happens to you.

Idiot huh? I love the professionalism you show to a fellow pilot. Since I was placed out east outside of my control you have to hate me. What a guy! It is unfortunate you post on this forum because everyone out there who doesn't know any west pilots will think they are all uneducated clowns like yourself. I apologize to all that read this. Not all of us at US Airways(east or west) are like this guy. Once again, this is not about east vs. west or doh vs. nic, but US (no pun intended) vs. Doug. Doug is no good! He is evil and he is creating more and more unnecessary issues between two pilot groups. NOT USAPA, but US AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT!!!!! When will we realize this?????

 

[BeCareful!]

It's a good effort, HockeyFan, but I don't think you'll get through to the West pilots who live, er, I mean, post here on FI.com

Their lack of professionalism here mimics the worst of the stunts the West pilot group has pulled in public. Thinks like: Placing a large poster against the pedestal of the Bus during boarding so that passengers could read their inane, false accusations about scabs and whatnot. Assaulting east pilot in PHX terminal (got fired for that one.) Stranding east non revs in LAS in favor of junior West employees (got fired for that, too.....broke several fedral laws in the process....not even the mighty ALPA could save that guy.)

No, these guys are a class act I actually know several West pilots who are good guys, but their rhetoric and lack of prefessionalism here makes them all look foolish.

 

[m80drvr]

Idiot huh? I love the professionalism you show to a fellow pilot. Since I was placed out east outside of my control you have to hate me. What a guy! It is unfortunate you post on this forum because everyone out there who doesn't know any west pilots will think they are all uneducated clowns like yourself. I apologize to all that read this. Not all of us at US Airways(east or west) are like this guy. Once again, this is not about east vs. west or doh vs. nic, but US (no pun intended) vs. Doug. Doug is no good! He is evil and he is creating more and more unnecessary issues between two pilot groups. NOT USAPA, but US AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT!!!!! When will we realize this?????

You have no idea what my history is with USAir.

That being said you spout some drivle about how you are sorry others have to read this and that I'm un professional yet you do not refute ANYTHING I said.

UCRAPA and the east pilots made this an east vs west fight not Doug. Lets see...

It was the east pilots that decided on the all or nothing DOH stance (all the while the arbitrator was saying DOH would not work).

It was not the west pilots that threw a tantrum after the Nic was published. (EAP program....come on.....really)

It was not the west pilots that REFUSED to negoitate a new contract while the company was making HUGE profits.

It was the east pilots that decided they didn't want to abide by an arbitration that THEY AREED to.

It was the east pilots that decided to make a new union with the STATED goal of screwing over 1/3 of the pilots.

It was the east pilots that decided to run a "union" with representatives for 1/3 of the pilot group.

It was the east pilots that sided with the company when it came to furloughing out of DOH order because it mostly effected the west.

It was the east pilots that offered to have a vote on the furloughed pilots health insurance with FULL knowledge the NOT one east pilot could have been member in good standing before the deadline.

It was the east pilots that made an agreement with the company to transfer the 6 most junior pilots back to the east side so they would not get furloughed. Then sided with the company and said it was impossible to transfer the west pilots to the east so they could bump junior probationary pilots. Separate operations only applies when it benefits the east


Shall I go on..........?

You may be the best guy in the world, but you open yourself up to discussions and dissenting opinions when you post on an open web board. Especially when you suggest that the fight is with Doug and not a "union" that is openly trying to take my job. In fact USAPA has taken the jobs of 90 pilots while probationary pilots still collect a paycheck. Again, USAPA fought with the company to allow this.

You are right that this shoud be a fight agaist dougwiesr but the actions of the east and your pi$$ed off FO club "union" had made it an east west fight.

Honestly do you think a union that needs two police officers to come to their meeting is really working for all it's pilots....... Wake up... take off the rose colored glasses.

And don't question my profrssionalism due to the responses on a message board.

 

[Sandhawk]

It's a good effort, HockeyFan, but I don't think you'll get through to the West pilots who live, er, I mean, post here on FI.com

Their lack of professionalism here mimics the worst of the stunts the West pilot group has pulled in public. STUNTS LIKE PLACING A USA TODAY AD? SHOOTING A HOLE IN A BUS? DOING THE BRADLEY BAJA IN A BOEING? Things like: Placing a large poster against the pedestal of the Bus during boarding so that passengers could read their inane, false accusations about scabs and whatnot. Assaulting east pilot in PHX terminal (got fired for that one.) FIRED, REALLY? - NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT ONE......... Stranding east non revs in LAS in favor of junior West employees (got fired for that, too.....broke several fedral laws in the process....not even the mighty ALPA could save that guy.) FIRED, TOO? - NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT ONE EITHER.........

No, these guys are a class act I actually know several West pilots who are good guys, but their rhetoric and lack of prefessionalism here makes them all look foolish. HELLO POT, MEET KETTLE!!

Here's your sign.............

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

You have no idea what my history is with USAir.

That being said you spout some drivle about how you are sorry others have to read this and that I'm un professional yet you do not refute ANYTHING I said.

UCRAPA and the east pilots made this an east vs west fight not Doug. Lets see...

It was the east pilots that decided on the all or nothing DOH stance (all the while the arbitrator was saying DOH would not work).

It was not the west pilots that threw a tantrum after the Nic was published. (EAP program....come on.....really)

It was not the west pilots that REFUSED to negoitate a new contract while the company was making HUGE profits.

It was the east pilots that decided they didn't want to abide by an arbitration that THEY AREED to.

It was the east pilots that decided to make a new union with the STATED goal of screwing over 1/3 of the pilots.

It was the east pilots that decided to run a "union" with representatives for 1/3 of the pilot group.

It was the east pilots that sided with the company when it came to furloughing out of DOH order because it mostly effected the west.

It was the east pilots that offered to have a vote on the furloughed pilots health insurance with FULL knowledge the NOT one east pilot could have been member in good standing before the deadline.

It was the east pilots that made an agreement with the company to transfer the 6 most junior pilots back to the east side so they would not get furloughed. Then sided with the company and said it was impossible to transfer the west pilots to the east so they could bump junior probationary pilots. Separate operations only applies when it benefits the east


Shall I go on..........?

You may be the best guy in the world, but you open yourself up to discussions and dissenting opinions when you post on an open web board. Especially when you suggest that the fight is with Doug and not a "union" that is openly trying to take my job. In fact USAPA has taken the jobs of 90 pilots while probationary pilots still collect a paycheck. Again, USAPA fought with the company to allow this.

USAPA is trying get better pay and work rules, but also asking for DOH. Once again we will never agreee on it's practices, just like we would never agree about what ALPA has done/not done for our industry. I just want to see everyone put things aside and tell Doug, "look we have our problems, but you US AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT needs to work around us. Don't expect us to fix your problems, give us new pay rates and work rules and let us operate seperately like we are right now." Doug could give us the new USAPA pay rates and work rules, but he refuses to. Look at DAL/NWA no seniority list, but new pay and contract. DOUG is to blame, Doug is to blame, and Doug is to blame. We need to be upset with Rio Salado Drive not CLT vs. PHX. DOUG is Evil!!!

 

[m80drvr]

It's a good effort, HockeyFan, but I don't think you'll get through to the West pilots who live, er, (GLASS HOUSE)I mean, post here on FI.com

Their lack of professionalism (professional abide by their agreement don't they)here mimics the worst of the stunts the West pilot group has pulled in public. Thinks like: Placing a large poster against the pedestal of the Bus during boarding so that passengers could read their inane, false accusations about scabs and whatnot. Assaulting east pilot in PHX terminal (got fired for that one.) Stranding east non revs in LAS in favor of junior West employees (got fired for that, too.....broke several fedral laws in the process....not even the mighty ALPA could save that guy.) Fairly sure you made up ALL of those. Good try though.

No, these guys are a class act I actually know several West pilots who are good guys, but their rhetoric and lack of prefessionalism here makes them all look foolish. ( Foolish? hmmmm I'm not sure you want to go there......Most FI readers think you guys are idiots at best.....)

Yawn.......waiting for MCDOOOOOOOSH to chime in.

 

[m80drvr]

USAPA is trying get better pay and work rules, but also asking for DOH. Once again we will never agreee on it's practices, just like we would never agree about what ALPA has done/not done for our industry. I just want to see everyone put things aside and tell Doug(So the west pilots should just roll over to the will of the east? The west should ignore a fair slotting arbitration in favor of a USAPA list that had NO input from the west pilots. A 55 year old Reserve fo should be able to be a captain just becaus of the merger?...no thanks... You started the fight not us), "look we have our problems, but you US AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT needs to work around us. Don't expect us to fix your problems, give us new pay rates and work rules and let us operate seperately like we are right now." Doug could give us the new USAPA pay rates and work rules, but he refuses to.( Reality check junior......our reps told your reps that Doug operates on the delay delay delay mo while in negotiations. You were warned, instead of fighting for a contract when the company was making money you guys threw a tantrum and took you ball and went home.........Now the company is losing money and the economy is facing the biggest recession since the 20s. and you think you are going to get a raise. Hell you could have had west book plus but remember Scabfords mantra of "our seniority is not for sale". You are right it isn't for sale, you're going to have to PAY doug to get anything you want). Look at DAL/NWA no seniority list, but new pay and contract. DOUG is to blame, Doug is to blame, and Doug is to blame ( Doug is to blame for delta being better negotiators?....more east "it's everyone elses flault not mine"....look in a mirror you might not like what you see.) We need to be upset with Rio Salado Drive not CLT vs. PHX. DOUG is Evil!!!

Next!!!

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Next!!!

Still unable to see Doug as the problem eh senior? Keep blaming USAPA and east pilots. Keep looking in the past and not towards the future(if there is one). As for the past, I do remember the west pilots agreeing to fly the A330 for the same bankruptcty pay and work rules as the east. Never once trying to negotiate a higher pay or better work rules. Now for the future, we shall see if we make progress or more crying about how we all got hosed over(east and west).

 

[OnTheDole]

I also think it is ridiculous that a 4.5 year copilot is being furloughed before a 8 month copilot. Who's fault? Doug! Doug makes these choices!

Doug (and EVERY CEO out there) makes choices in regards to whats best for the sharholders, not whats right for the empoyees - the only thing in place to stop that is the union. Doug knew he could get away with the out of senority furlough because it only affects the west therefore USAPA wouldn't spend a second defending against it. So Dougs doing what CEO's have been trying to do for decades - but its the "union" that allowed him do it. If you and the majority of the East can't (or refuse to) see it for what its worth, hypocracy of the DOH mantra, then you're blind.

 

[Carl S.]

Doug is milking the USAPA/East USAPA cult members for all it is worth! The West only has the courts to correct the damage USAPA does and has to react after the damage is done. My bet is the next CLT crewnews, the first question will be about pay parity.
How is the LCC/USAPA legal team working on the injunction/DFR? The West is at one table and LCC/USAPA is at the other.

 

[m80drvr]

Still unable to see Doug as the problem eh senior?
(Nope Doug is part of the problem. You are unwilling to recognize that USAPA is what is stifling any chance at unity. But that's to be expected...the average east pilot has no idea what is going on.) eep blaming USAPA and east pilots. (I will, don't worry....when you screw with my family you make an enemy for life) Keep looking in the past and not towards the future( By saying looking at the past you mean the meeting that took place on the 11th? The lack of representation of the west is on going. The lawsuits, …..The furloughs that don’t even follow ucrapas DOH list,…..Siding with the company to keep the furloughs out west...This is not the past m0r0n it's the present, on going, continuing. Maybe UCRAPA should give up the past and move on how about that....but no, in you estimation it's entirely the west pilots fault and they should just move on. It was the east that agreed to the arbitration then walked away when they didn’t get what they wanted. Yet YOU suggest the west should take it in the shorts just to get you a raise. UNBELIEVABLE... If anyone needs to move on it will be UCRAPA. You only suggest the west should move on because it helps you.(if there is one). As for the past, I do remember the west pilots agreeing to fly the A330 for the same bankruptcty pay and work rules as the east. (Sigh…We didn’t get higher rates to fly the 330’s so the company could not whip saw us…….Higher rates would have also forced the east to activate the ERP program again.) Never once trying to negotiate a higher pay or better work rules. (Do you honestly think Doug would have agree to higher rates than the east anyway…..) Now for the future, we shall see if we make progress or more crying about how we all got hosed over (east and west). We are where we are because of your pilots unwillingness to follow their agreements. You don’t have a better contract for that reason and that reason alone.

I'm on the street after 4 years, I brought a job to this merger. Yet you... a new hire is still providing for your family.....you have alot to learn about people and this industry.



Since you failed to respond to any of the points I have brought up I will allow you the last word, I'm tired of debating people that just keep spouting the "we all need to get along mantre" without understanding how we got here.

 

[MCDU]

I'm on the street after 4 years, I brought a job to this merger. Yet you... a new hire is still providing for your family.....you have alot to learn about people and this industry.


You brought a worthless job to the merger. AWA would have been gone had they not merged. USair East is subsidizing the operations out west since the merger. Very low revenue out West. Maybe they will close the whole West down. Then the Westies do not have to worry about USAPA anymore.

By the way. New seniority numbers are out for East pilots. Still lots of attrition. Many have moved up quite a deal. To bad we are still shrinking. Without the attrition we would have seen a lot more furloughs out East.

By the way most former USAIR East furloughed pilots are holding blocks and are flying Widebodies to Europe again, just like the did prior to 9/11/2001.
This thanks to the min. block hours and min hull required by LOA 93. These are East jobs bought to the merger and Westies want them. Westies want to take East positions and they want to fly Widebodies. If not, they would agree to a long fence.

AWA pilot group just like the prop 8 group out in CAL.

M

Can not wait for some of junior Westies who infest this board to chime in.

 

[reepicheep]

I agree...we need to get back to the core values that made usair the industry-leading success it was back in the 90's and into the early 2000's. (And don't try and confuse the issue with phony financial numbers - we all know those multi-billion dollar losses were pure negotiating tactics; they can massage those results any way they want.)
Unload the loser west routes like we did PSA....BusinessSelect©, Operation High Ground, F100's & DC-9's. Ithica, Elmira, Scranton. THAT was a real airline.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Sioux HF-
Everyone at US needs to hold Bradford and USAPA accountable for their needless delay in securing a joint contract by continuing to pursue the dead-end DOH SLI.

I don't fault Parker. USAPA is the sole reason that Nicolau has not been implemented in a joint contract. They are blatantly protecting the east at the expense of the west and that is the crux of the DFR lawsuit.

 

[m80drvr]

I'm on the street after 4 years, I brought a job to this merger. Yet you... a new hire is still providing for your family.....you have alot to learn about people and this industry.


You brought a worthless job to the merger. AWA would have been gone had they not merged. (Really Karnak tell me more........I guess you can see the future...does it also include the fact that you and the rest of the east pilots would be on the street. USair East is subsidizing the operations out west since the merger.(AWA Airline subsidized the merger. If the east is such a financial powerhouse how come you you guys keep going into bankrupcy? Oh I get it....it's a negotiating tactic... Very low revenue out West. Maybe they will close the whole West down. Then the Westies do not have to worry about USAPA anymore.

By the way. New seniority numbers are out for East pilots. Still lots of attrition. Many have moved up quite a deal. To bad we are still shrinking. Without the attrition we would have seen a lot more furloughs out East.

By the way most former USAIR East furloughed pilots are holding blocks and are flying Widebodies to Europe again, just like the did prior to 9/11/2001.
This thanks to the min. block hours and min hull required by LOA 93. These are East jobs bought to the merger and Westies want them. Westies want to take East positions and they want to fly Widebodies. If not, they would agree to a long fence.

AWA pilot group just like the prop 8 group out in CAL. Nice...everytime you open your mouth and spout off crap like that just makes you and the rest of the east pilots look idiotic. You respond to fact with emotion and insults.....You guys are great. Can't wait until the whole place tanks.....there is not an airline in the country that is going to hire you guys


M

Can not wait for some of junior Westies who infest this board to chime in.

Hey MCDOOOOOOOOSH

I get a laugh reading your stuff though. Thanks

PS easties don't bother applying with my company...they won't hire you..........Karma is a bitch.

The SWA guys did a great job getting SWA/FO to STFU.......Hopefully the east guys will do it to you.

 

[Lampshade]

Sioux you been here 9 months and are completely brain washed! Nothing is going to move until the seniority thing is settled! no new contract, no pay parity, no FA contract it's all up to USAPA to remove there head from there azz or have the courts do it for them.

Also as a soon to be furloughed, you should be advised that east will sell you down the river for a couple of shekels. Good Luck.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Since the Prime Directive of USAPA is to terminate those with dissenting opinions rather than listening and bending towards the will of 1/3 of the pilots, I have to wonder how Parker will handle the termination of 33% of his airline? Will he be allowed the luxury of terminating folks at the same rate that they can be replaced? Must all be terminated at once? Can a class action suit be filed on behalf of all non-payers to require the company to terminate all at once or none at all?

How sweet it would be to see the easties packing up their flight bags as the last US jet is delivered to the Victorville, under the title, "BE CAREFUL what you ask for, you just might get it."

Which is not to say it would be sweeter still to see them come to their senses, abandon DOH for now, move on unified and build a winning airline. Not bloody likely, but sweeter none the less.

 

[SiouxHockeyFan]

Since the Prime Directive of USAPA is to terminate those with dissenting opinions rather than listening and bending towards the will of 1/3 of the pilots, I have to wonder how Parker will handle the termination of 33% of his airline? Will he be allowed the luxury of terminating folks at the same rate that they can be replaced? Must all be terminated at once? Can a class action suit be filed on behalf of all non-payers to require the company to terminate all at once or none at all?

How sweet it would be to see the easties packing up their flight bags as the last US jet is delivered to the Victorville, under the title, "BE CAREFUL what you ask for, you just might get it."

Which is not to say it would be sweeter still to see them come to their senses, abandon DOH for now, move on unified and build a winning airline. Not bloody likely, but sweeter none the less.

On that same note, would it be unreasonable to expect the ex amer west pilots to abandon NIC for now, move on unified and build a winning airline? Not likely! We will have to agree to disagree. Oh well, our fate is in Doug's hands now!!

 

[Carl S.]

AAA is long dead, the past is a distant memory. LCC is a split pilot group with one side having the lowest mainline rates and worst work rules for a long time to come.