Joe the Plummer says, "Bring back the -9's"

[DYLIN]

I wonder why they bothered to put in that restriction. By the time it was written, the Compass planes were already purchased with a MTOW of 85,500.

That is a good question and I think I have an answer.

Compass -175LRs are about to be start the process of being converted to -175ARs.

The AR modification adds a bit more than 3,000 pounds to the MTOW and something to the MLW, I forget what.

They probably knew about this AR weight back when the ordered the airplanes.

 

[~~~^~~~]

CL65-

I could point figners saying you should have been an idealist and stayed off the jet based on your opinion, but I would have (and did) done the same thing. Just wanted to make sure you haven't forgotten your roots.

There is a difference between remembering your roots and wanting to reduce the rate of transfer from mainline to outsourced contractors.

ACL has helped pilots from the contract carriers get hired at Delta. He hasn't forgot his roots at all.

Ever miss the E120? I don't. The ATR was fun.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

This has noting to do with roots or pilots. It has to with what we have done to the profession, and where the growth has been the last decade. Look at what this growth has done to every pilots "career expectations."

 

[flap operator]

If the profession is being eroded by all these RJs, then why has scope always allowed unlimited t-props... including the big ones? Wait... could it be a double standard?

What the heck is the threat level difference between a Q400 and CRJ900/EMB175? Better yet... why not fight to capture ALL the flying and solve the problem?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Are you serious.
The large regional jets have the range to get places that we cannot take a t-prop. Ala a four flight from a hub. No passenger would take that flight on a turbo prop. Jets are inefficient on that segment length

 

[flap operator]

So it's about defending the profession at mainline from planes that have the ability for longer stage lengths? I thought it was about preserving JOBS at mainline. Oh that's right... it's only about preserving CERTAIN jobs at mainline. Again, why not fight for ALL the jobs?

The Q400 for example, is the perfect plane for many mainline flights. Here, let me give you an example. MSP-RST, LSE, DLH, MSN. DTW-FNT, GRR, MBS, CLE, CMH. The list goes on.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Not at all it is about realizing that there is no way that a t-prop will ever come to mainline, just like a 50 seater will not.
We will never get back to the Pan Am days where you started in a metroliner.
Giving up these Large regional jets would be further slippage. I do not see us ever recapturing what has been lost. That is called bing a realist.

 

[flap operator]

I realize it's not that realistic. But it's doable if everyone wants to make sacrifices. That's just it... nobody is willing to do it and will just accept what status quo and famously live to fight another day.

It's incredible to me that MAINLINE draws the line in the sand, keeps moving it and keep complaining about the line.

Again, why all the hate for a 70 seat jet as opposed to the 70 seat t-prop? They do the same thing. They move people from A to B. Many times, side by side your mainline jets. I thought all jobs were important. NWA (DL) could replace all the short hop mainline flying with large t-props. It's allowed in your scope. Why no heartburn?

 

[PuffDriver]

I realize it's not that realistic. But it's doable if everyone wants to make sacrifices. That's just it... nobody is willing to do it and will just accept what status quo and famously live to fight another day.

It's incredible to me that MAINLINE draws the line in the sand, keeps moving it and keep complaining about the line.

Again, why all the hate for a 70 seat jet as opposed to the 70 seat t-prop? They do the same thing. They move people from A to B. Many times, side by side your mainline jets. I thought all jobs were important. NWA (DL) could replace all the short hop mainline flying with large t-props. It's allowed in your scope. Why no heartburn?

It's easy to sit in the cheap seats and say it is doable if everyone makes sacrifices. Frankly, there is no room at regionals for sacrifice. So it will be the majors doing the sacrificing. Once that is established, then it becomes a fight within the mainline list. The senior pilots don't care as much as the junior pilots because they see dollars going out of their pocket. The junior pilots see nothing but dollars flowing out of their pocket with the loss of scope, and I imagine that is where you see the bulk of "complaining".

A couple of other things:

A 70 seat jet is not a 70 seat turboprop. I personally would like to see both at mainline, but they are not the same.

While you seem to have all of the answers to Delta's route structure, you'll forgive me if I would rather trust our experts here at Delta

 

[flap operator]

Other than the props hanging on the outside of the engine, what's the difference? Is there a different skill set required? Don't they still transport people from A to B? I fail to see the difference in threat they pose.

I never claimed to be an expert. Do you at DL know what kind of midwest route structure you're getting? LOTS of short hops. Do you at DL realize that on many short hops in the NWA system, you might find everything from a saab 340 to a DC9-50? Everyone knows a jet is likely not as economical on a short hop. So, it's an open invitation, from your scope, to have a large amount of large t-props on many short hops in the system. But why doesn't it matter to mainline?

There is actually sacrifice at the regional level. It's called jobs, the ultimate sacrifice for long term gains. If ALPA could get creative for once, mainline and regional MECs could work together to solve this problem. Unfortunately yes, mainline would probably have to sacrifice more. But then again, mainline is in the drivers seat.

You hit the nail on the head... you're not willing to sacrifice what you have, for what doesn't matter to you. Which brings me back to my original questions... why don't the large t-props matter? Why don't the small t-props matter? Why don't the 50 seaters matter? Shouldn't it ALL matter?