NetJets' Captains need to get over themselves!

[ToTheStars]

Young man,

Be the best First Officer you can be. If you impress your captain, he will begin to trust you.

Do not ever expect any captain worth his weight in salt to ever trust a wet-behind-the-ears wipper-snapper college boy Gold Seal CFI with his career. It just ain't gonna happen.

In the aviation business, trust doesn't come with a resume and a log book. You earn it over time with a fellow pilot. All the great stories you tell about how you saved the day doesn't do anything for you. Sorry, we all know how to stretch a tale to pick up chicks. Doesn't work for dodo w/ pilots!

Your history begins a new every time you step into your craft with a new captain. Be the very best you can be!

p.s. be patient!!

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Over in NJE, the parameters are very simple. As an FO, you would only fly left seat with a check airman pilot - & then only in very exceptional circumstances, such as pre-upgrade assessment. So, the norm is captain in left seat, FO in right seat.

However, unless there are over-riding circumstances for the captain to fly the sector (e.g. mandated in Ops Manual for short runway, or special procedures airport, etc), we normally fly alternating legs, pax or no pax. Personally, if I can, I might swap the order slightly to allow better experience for the FO (or me!!) so they can fly an approach to an airport that they haven't been to before. As such, that means that "Pilot Flying" for the sector would stay on board the aircraft to confirm flight deck set-up, etc, & the "non-flying pilot" would meet the pax in the FBO/Terminal.

Please can you explain (gently!) the rules/basis (FAA/company?) that allow an FO to occupy the left seat on a non-pax sector - &/or why they can't fly pax from that seat. As far as I can make out, we don't have a direct equivalent under JAA regulations, despite all being checked out on initial rating in the left seat (although personally I think that your system is very good for building up left seat "awareness" & experience for future upgrade). I have asked our Trg Dept about this in the past, but was advised that there would be significant trg considerations to put this into effect.

 

[brokeflyer]

lol I mean really.....what do you hope to gain by posting that butt hole full of bull $hit in here?

Captain: "I read on Flightinfo.com about the FO complaining, So i better let you fly and screw everything else....."

FO: "Break yourself fool, for the smoke dawg.....You better recognize...Biotch!"

 

[c90medpilot]

Young man,

Be the best First Officer you can be. If you impress your captain, he will begin to trust you.

Do not ever expect any captain worth his weight in salt to ever trust a wet-behind-the-ears wipper-snapper college boy Gold Seal CFI with his career. It just ain't gonna happen.

In the aviation business, trust doesn't come with a resume and a log book. You earn it over time with a fellow pilot. All the great stories you tell about how you saved the day doesn't do anything for you. Sorry, we all know how to stretch a tale to pick up chicks. Doesn't work for dodo w/ pilots!

Your history begins a new every time you step into your craft with a new captain. Be the very best you can be!

p.s. be patient!!

:uzi: SPOT ON

 

[Porter]

Ok guys, this will be my last post. I've read the good and the bad and taken what I can from all of them. You guys are some regular comedians.

In all seriousness, most of the Captain's I fly with are great and I've had a good time hanging out with all of them. They are even pleasant to fly with. I've gotten nothing but positive feedback about my crew support and my flying abilities so I'm fairly certain that is not an issue. I do recognize that anyone might have issue with something I'm not aware of, but I would expect them to communicate that to me. Overall, it's not the individuals that I have a problem with, but what seems to be an old mindset and quite possibly an isolated fleet culture.

As far as my first post, I get some of your reactions. I was frustrated and tired and should have taken a step back and thought about how to handle it. However, I'm not some holier than though dipsh** "wippersnapper" that is "wet behind the ears" etc. etc. for stating my qualifications. I realize the gold seal thing is funny to some and is easy to rip on, but all I was trying to do was state my qualifications because I found it funny that people are trying to "teach" me how to land in a crosswind at this stage (and no they haven't seen me fly yet when they do this). That was just one example of many.

To answer someones questioning if I have an ATP, yes, and 4 type ratings also. Bottom line though, who cares? I shouldn't have to defend my qulifications to anybody once I'm in the cockpit with you guys.

To those of you that seem confused about the issue I raised, I am not talking at all about seat swapping, I could care less about that. I am talking about flying every other leg from one's own seat regardless of weather or not Mr. Moneybucks is in the back.

This is a great place to work and I've had a lot of fun over the past 5 months. I just wanted to ruffle some feathers on this issue and see what kind of response I got. In some ways I was intentionally flaming to see just what people;s true attitudes really were. I learned a lot.

I did this anonymously for that reason, some of you might think that is cowardly but your comments only confirm that even If I had brought this issue up in a way you would have accepted I would still probably catch hell for it.

So, that's it. Some of you will probably fly with me many times and not even know I was "porter". I'm not a hotel rat and I like to have a good time. Think what you want to about my posts and stereotype me accordingly, but I bet you'll never know it was me.

By the way, two more pax legs today. I still haven't talked to him about it yet. A few more days to go yet. Two pax legs tomorrow. I decided to see just how far this goes before I raise the issue. So far that is 5 legs in a row without touching the controls. He hasn't seen me fly yet either so what gives?

Anyway, glad I could be entertaining and give you guys something to flame about.

 

[acaTerry]

I'm in my 4th year and I have to say that it sounds like you have some thin skin. Don't get your panties in a bunch, and don't criticize the CA's decision on if he wants to fly this leg or that leg. That's not your place as an FO. Please tell me you're not logging PIC because you are type-rated and acting as "sole manipulator".
I have not seen much in the way of egotistical CAs here. With the exception of 2 guys, every single CA I flew with has been fine. I think you are just taking things too personal.
Maybe its fleet-related, or maybe I'm just that good :laugh:
Whatever the case, this is a good job and we have for the most part, a good pilot group. You seem rather confident in your assessment of yourself and your flying skills, so don't get upset over who flies which legs. He11, I don't care if I just sling gear all trip...it pays the same.

 

[barnyard]

Tomorrow-

Porter- "Hey dude, you mind if I fly a leg or two?"

Other guy- "Uh, yeah sure... wait, from the right seat? Yeah OK if ya really want! Most guys I fly with like the left... why didn't you say something sooner??"

 

[Willy21]

I feel for you Porter. I am in a fleet (over two years with the company now) where it is about 50/50 with the PICs that fly all passenger legs. I had a tour back in September where we did 7 passenger legs in a row. The first leg of the tour was the only ferry and the pic was out of night currency so he got to fly that leg and two turns around the pattern. I did not fly the plane on that tour.

For those of you that think that is just the way it is let me share this with you. As that tour progressed I was finding myself fighting the urge to disengage and I felt like CRM was starting to break down. Believe it or not I was glad that most of the legs were 135, filed above FL350, and I could wear the O2 so I didn't have to talk to the guy. I will give you this, he doesn't have a good reputation to begin with. (Ask around the 800xph fleet and I am sure you will get a story or two)

All pilots have egos that must be fed. We all come to the airport to fly and when we don't get to it hurts our egos. (you can change our to my if it pleases you)

I believe that we should split the flying as evenly as possible. If there are not any ferry legs in a stretch of flying it would be nice for the pic to pick a leg, with a long runway at both the departure and arrival airport if it makes them feel better, and throw the sic a bone.

Bottom line is I will do whatever the pic wants to do as long it is safe and legal. That does not mean I will like being a radio jockey, but if that is the way you run your cockpit then I will do it and hope there is a lot of duty at the hotel and a show at home on day 7.

 

[Jack Mehoff]

I'm on the 800XP (honeywell). Its about 60% of the pic's I've flown with only let FO's fly empty legs and 40% swap legs. It seem that some months have more of the empty only ones then the other. It seems to be that the ex airline or military guys swap legs and the all corporate or single pilot ops guys have the pax ego complex.

This seems to be a recurring 800XPH issue. Porter just enjoy the fact that you have a very good pay check and a stable job for now. The 800XPs are being retired so you will be sent to another plane in a year or so. Just try to chill out.

 

[skiandsurf]

In all seriousness, most of the Captain's I fly with are great and I've had a good time hanging out with all of them. They are even pleasant to fly with.

Now we know this is not for real.

jk


I will admit, when I was new, things seemed a lot different from my past job (terminology...DNIF, ACP, screen readers). It takes a little time to adjust. As far the PICs go, there is really one pet peeve that I have. This is after a Pax flight, I jump out to get the bags, and expect him to stand at the bottom of the door to catch the people falling off the steps. I often find that they are still in the cockpit doing their times on the Blackberry.

Other than that, no problems.