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TSA wants to scan bizjet pax

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B314Clipper

Active member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
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35
By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Travelers who fly on private corporate jets would have to clear background checks before boarding under a new proposal made Thursday by the Transportation Security Administration.
The TSA is seeking to impose the security requirements on roughly 15,000 corporate jets and 315 small airports that currently have none.
A group of private-plane owners and pilots warned that the proposal could be costly and represent an unprecedented intrusion into private flying. Hundreds of thousands of people travel each year on such jets.
There is no specific threat to corporate jets, but the TSA said in its 260-page proposal that many are the same size and weight as commercial planes "and they could be used effectively to commit a terrorist act." Private jets, possibly packed with explosives, could fly into a building or could transport terrorists or dangerous materials, the TSA said.
"This is an important milestone," said Michal Morgan, TSA head of general aviation security. "It's the evolution of security into a new operating environment."
The proposal would take effect next year at the earliest and be phased in over two years. The TSA said it would cost $200 million a year, with corporate jet owners paying 85%.
Passengers would have to be checked against a terrorist watch list, just like airline passengers. They would also have to give their names and birth dates. The TSA says the checks would likely be done by companies that specialize in the process.
Morgan said passengers who regularly fly on corporate jets could be cleared once and would not have to face background checks again. Pilots of corporate jets would also have to pass criminal background checks.
The proposal does not require physical screening of passengers and does not regulate more than 150,000 smaller piston planes.
Andy Cebula, government-affairs chief for the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, warned that the TSA might try to regulate the small planes in the future. "It's a big step," Cebula said. "It would be like if you were driving your car and now you had to go through a background check."
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Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-10-09-background_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip
 
True, but the entire notion is still TOO STOOPID for words.
 
I hear you amigo. Guess we'll just have to chill out with that nice bottle of Cabernet you're going to owe me on November 5th....:beer:
 
The new pax would have to be checked agaisnt the list before you can go. It is a simple phone call to Owner Services for us. Usually takes less than 5 minutes to get a new release with new numbers and pax manifest from dispatch.
 
Charter Guys, Ouch!!

All the fracs have had to do this for, how long, 3 years now?? The other 135 operators are gonna freak. This will really help those guys keep their heads above water. Yikes.
 
XO already does this also.

I think the TSA is aiming this at part 91 folks that weigh over 12,500.

Looks like a job security move on part of the TSA.
 
All the fracs have had to do this for, how long, 3 years now?? The other 135 operators are gonna freak. This will really help those guys keep their heads above water. Yikes.

The charter company I use to work at was doing this already - this is 2 - 3 years ago.
 
As a frac pilot I totally support the screening of the passengers. Anything that increases my safety on the job is a good thing in my eyes.
 
Our freedoms are slipping away. Now you have to get approval from the government to travel in your own vehicle. Didn't his happen in Nazi Germany?
 
At the time, I was flying a Hawker (no external baggage compartment) pt 91. While they were trying to get their $hit together shortly after 9-11 (not that it is together now) the screeners at Signature BOS told us that our pax could not bring their hunting rifles through because the guns would be in the cabin. After much debate, they finally relented. However, they still had to send the rifles through the x-ray:rolleyes:

This is the same mentality.
 
This government is wayyyy the f#ck out of control. We (part 125 ops) have had this forced on us for the past few years, though the enforcement has really ramped up lately. I know of at least one on-going investigation due to lack of screening pax... doesn't seem to matter much that they were secret service. TSA are truly ignorant of flight ops and the business. They have the power to make your life hell. TELL YOUR OWNERS/CLIENTS TO RAISE HELL with their elected officials.
 
gune through the X-Ray? "Yep it's a gun, Bob!"

At the time, I was flying a Hawker (no external baggage compartment) pt 91. While they were trying to get their $hit together shortly after 9-11 (not that it is together now) the screeners at Signature BOS told us that our pax could not bring their hunting rifles through because the guns would be in the cabin. After much debate, they finally relented. However, they still had to send the rifles through the x-ray:rolleyes:

This is the same mentality.

That's friggin crazy. Take apart the guns, inspect them "YES THEY'RE GUNS" but it was OK after they X-rayed them? WTFO? These people are complete idiots.
 
Boston Signature is the worst.... I was getting a flight ready in the morn in BOS, I went thru the securty thing there and beeped.. the guy said he had to wand me.... So the wanding showed that my belt buckle and a few other objects on my body were metal.. What if I had a 12" Rambo Knife.. it would not matter.. he could not take it.. freaking stupid..

So I come and go to the fbo 4 or 5 times that morning and every time I beeped and every time the same guy wanded me????
 
The guys at the BOS Signature are MassPort not TSA.

I had a pax forget to bring his ID for a flight from BOS to TEB. I vouched for him, but apparently that wasn't good enough. So they called a Mass State Trooper, who upon arriving asked me if I knew the pax(yes), and then asked the screeners what the problem was(standard procedure), which caused us to about 40 minutes late. The screener told me that he had no problem letting us go, but he had his rules to follow and his boss to answer to.

Unfortunately most people in a security screening position have to follow some procedures or policies that don't make sense or increase safety. These folks have to do their jobs, or they might get canned.

It's hard to be understanding and patient when the system is the way it is.
 
Our freedoms are slipping away. Now you have to get approval from the government to travel in your own vehicle. Didn't his happen in Nazi Germany?

When your "own vehicle" can be used as weapon agaisnt the population there are steps that have to be taken. Let's face it, when we go into Timbuktu, Utah and fly them into the tri state area there are not any sercurity measures that will stop individuals from not only bring dangerous items on aircraft but also disabling the crew in flight. The company I fly for only checks the id for the lead passenger. Who the hell knows who the other people that are getting on the aircraft? As far as your "own vehicle" is concerned there are people that own 737s, do you think those passengers should go through background checks? As far as TSA is concerned, do I agree with all of their procedures? Absolutely not, are they annoying? Damn right, but they are necessary. Sure
 
When your "own vehicle" can be used as weapon agaisnt the population there are steps that have to be taken. Let's face it, when we go into Timbuktu, Utah and fly them into the tri state area there are not any sercurity measures that will stop individuals from not only bring dangerous items on aircraft but also disabling the crew in flight. The company I fly for only checks the id for the lead passenger. Who the hell knows who the other people that are getting on the aircraft? As far as your "own vehicle" is concerned there are people that own 737s, do you think those passengers should go through background checks? As far as TSA is concerned, do I agree with all of their procedures? Absolutely not, are they annoying? Damn right, but they are necessary. Sure

Just curious, how much explosives do you think you can fit into a moving van?
 
Enough to blow up the Federal building in OKC...
 
Just curious, how much explosives do you think you can fit into a moving van?

Mr. Eye,

This is the moment you reply with "point well taken, I will no longer give my freedom to terrorists."
 
Originally Posted by windycty
As a frac pilot I totally support the screening of the passengers. Anything that increases my safety on the job is a good thing in my eyes.


Spoken like a true Subject.........

Spoken like a true parrot. Fracs are 135 or 91k, not part 91, period. That means they hold out to the public. Any Timothy McVeigh, Ricky Bobby or Habib can get a (insert program name here) Jet Card. Then, any of their associates can ride the airplane. Sorry, your beating of the liberty or freedom drum implication holds no water. For part 91, I'm with you.....even if it is a 747SP operated pt 91. However, checking the ID's of pax in the fracs is just as necessary as checking ID's of airline passengers.
 
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I have a whole heck of a lot more faith in our company's security personnel than I do the TSA. I'd feel a lot better about this if they would just outline the security requirements and allow the companies to self-govern than I would about any TSA interference in Part 91 bizjet operators.

But hey, that's just me not wanting anyone climbing my pitot tubes today.
 
I have a whole heck of a lot more faith in our company's security personnel than I do the TSA. I'd feel a lot better about this if they would just outline the security requirements and allow the companies to self-govern than I would about any TSA interference in Part 91 bizjet operators.

But hey, that's just me not wanting anyone climbing my pitot tubes today.

The only problem is not all companies are good at self-governing. Unfortunatly there needs to be a certain measure of government oversight of security.

I don't want agents climbing all over my pitot tubes either.....there has to be a happy median somewhere.
 
Do as I say, not as I do

Report slams TSA failure to track security passesBy Alan Levin, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The agency overseeing security at the nation's airports failed for years to track security passes and uniforms of former employees, creating widespread vulnerability to terrorists, says a government watchdog report obtained by USA TODAY.
The Transportation Security Administration lacked centralized controls over the secure passes issued to some of its employees, according to Department of Homeland Security Inspector General Richard Skinner. The passes grant people access to the most sensitive areas of an airport, such as where baggage is screened or planes are parked.
Investigators found numerous cases in which former employees retained their passes long after they had left the agency.
The investigation also found that TSA uniforms were frequently not collected when employees left or were transferred.
People using improper badges, IDs or uniforms — particularly in combination — "could significantly increase an airport's vulnerability to unauthorized access and, potentially, a wide variety of terrorist and criminal acts," the report said.
House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., said the findings confirm his fears that there is inadequate oversight of who gets into airports. "The risk of unauthorized access to the secure areas of our airports is unacceptable," Thompson said in a statement.
Thompson supported legislation that increased scrutiny of airport workers after employees were caught smuggling weapons and drugs into secure areas.
TSA chief Kip Hawley says the agency agrees with most of the inspector general's findings and began following the recommendations from investigators before the report was completed. The agency is tightening oversight of security passes, requiring collection of passes from officers who leave the agency and improving tracking of employee uniforms.
"While we believe the … report overstates deficiencies as well as any potential associated security risk, we share the interest in improving our processes," Hawley wrote in response to the report.
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Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-10-12-TSA_N.htm
 
Pilots get background checks? What in the heck is the Twelve Five program for 135 ops for? Did tsa forget about that program?
 

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