TSA wants to scan bizjet pax

[gutshotdraw]

It is starting to look that way.

It would be the first bet in my life that I'd be ECSTATIC to lose....

 

[eyeamthechosen1]

Our freedoms are slipping away. Now you have to get approval from the government to travel in your own vehicle. Didn't his happen in Nazi Germany?

When your "own vehicle" can be used as weapon agaisnt the population there are steps that have to be taken. Let's face it, when we go into Timbuktu, Utah and fly them into the tri state area there are not any sercurity measures that will stop individuals from not only bring dangerous items on aircraft but also disabling the crew in flight. The company I fly for only checks the id for the lead passenger. Who the hell knows who the other people that are getting on the aircraft? As far as your "own vehicle" is concerned there are people that own 737s, do you think those passengers should go through background checks? As far as TSA is concerned, do I agree with all of their procedures? Absolutely not, are they annoying? Damn right, but they are necessary. Sure

 

[imacdog]

When your "own vehicle" can be used as weapon agaisnt the population there are steps that have to be taken. Let's face it, when we go into Timbuktu, Utah and fly them into the tri state area there are not any sercurity measures that will stop individuals from not only bring dangerous items on aircraft but also disabling the crew in flight. The company I fly for only checks the id for the lead passenger. Who the hell knows who the other people that are getting on the aircraft? As far as your "own vehicle" is concerned there are people that own 737s, do you think those passengers should go through background checks? As far as TSA is concerned, do I agree with all of their procedures? Absolutely not, are they annoying? Damn right, but they are necessary. Sure

Just curious, how much explosives do you think you can fit into a moving van?

 

[fischman]

Enough to blow up the Federal building in OKC...

 

[RCA]

Just curious, how much explosives do you think you can fit into a moving van?

Mr. Eye,

This is the moment you reply with "point well taken, I will no longer give my freedom to terrorists."

 

[waka]

Originally Posted by windycty
As a frac pilot I totally support the screening of the passengers. Anything that increases my safety on the job is a good thing in my eyes.


Spoken like a true Subject.........

Spoken like a true parrot. Fracs are 135 or 91k, not part 91, period. That means they hold out to the public. Any Timothy McVeigh, Ricky Bobby or Habib can get a (insert program name here) Jet Card. Then, any of their associates can ride the airplane. Sorry, your beating of the liberty or freedom drum implication holds no water. For part 91, I'm with you.....even if it is a 747SP operated pt 91. However, checking the ID's of pax in the fracs is just as necessary as checking ID's of airline passengers.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I have a whole heck of a lot more faith in our company's security personnel than I do the TSA. I'd feel a lot better about this if they would just outline the security requirements and allow the companies to self-govern than I would about any TSA interference in Part 91 bizjet operators.

But hey, that's just me not wanting anyone climbing my pitot tubes today.

 

[o2bflyn]

I have a whole heck of a lot more faith in our company's security personnel than I do the TSA. I'd feel a lot better about this if they would just outline the security requirements and allow the companies to self-govern than I would about any TSA interference in Part 91 bizjet operators.

But hey, that's just me not wanting anyone climbing my pitot tubes today.

The only problem is not all companies are good at self-governing. Unfortunatly there needs to be a certain measure of government oversight of security.

I don't want agents climbing all over my pitot tubes either.....there has to be a happy median somewhere.

 

[B314Clipper]

Do as I say, not as I do

Report slams TSA failure to track security passesBy Alan Levin, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The agency overseeing security at the nation's airports failed for years to track security passes and uniforms of former employees, creating widespread vulnerability to terrorists, says a government watchdog report obtained by USA TODAY.
The Transportation Security Administration lacked centralized controls over the secure passes issued to some of its employees, according to Department of Homeland Security Inspector General Richard Skinner. The passes grant people access to the most sensitive areas of an airport, such as where baggage is screened or planes are parked.
Investigators found numerous cases in which former employees retained their passes long after they had left the agency.
The investigation also found that TSA uniforms were frequently not collected when employees left or were transferred.
People using improper badges, IDs or uniforms — particularly in combination — "could significantly increase an airport's vulnerability to unauthorized access and, potentially, a wide variety of terrorist and criminal acts," the report said.
House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., said the findings confirm his fears that there is inadequate oversight of who gets into airports. "The risk of unauthorized access to the secure areas of our airports is unacceptable," Thompson said in a statement.
Thompson supported legislation that increased scrutiny of airport workers after employees were caught smuggling weapons and drugs into secure areas.
TSA chief Kip Hawley says the agency agrees with most of the inspector general's findings and began following the recommendations from investigators before the report was completed. The agency is tightening oversight of security passes, requiring collection of passes from officers who leave the agency and improving tracking of employee uniforms.
"While we believe the … report overstates deficiencies as well as any potential associated security risk, we share the interest in improving our processes," Hawley wrote in response to the report.

Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-10-12-TSA_N.htm

 

[Wankel7]

Pilots get background checks? What in the heck is the Twelve Five program for 135 ops for? Did tsa forget about that program?

 

[RTRHD]

Spoken like a true parrot. Fracs are 135 or 91k, not part 91, period. That means they hold out to the public. Any Timothy McVeigh, Ricky Bobby or Habib can get a (insert program name here) Jet Card. Then, any of their associates can ride the airplane. Sorry, your beating of the liberty or freedom drum implication holds no water. For part 91, I'm with you.....even if it is a 747SP operated pt 91. However, checking the ID's of pax in the fracs is just as necessary as checking ID's of airline passengers.

The Government is not the answer, especially the TSA.

 

[eyeamthechosen1]

Just curious, how much explosives do you think you can fit into a moving van?

The point I was trying to make that there is not a full proof way to stop anything. The federal government has chosen TSA to screen passengers at major airports. Is that the best way? Probably not, but it is something. And TSA is better than what we had before. As far as your question about explosives, point taken. I'm sure there are a lot of ways to blow something up I just hope TSA is doing there job when one of our family members get on the plane because they are the only line of defense no matter how inept you think the people in the blue shirts seem to be.

 

[CA1900]

And TSA is better than what we had before.

Based on what metric, exactly? Dollars spent per passenger? Most screeners per checkpoint? Fastest-growing bureaucracy? Most pissed-off people per 1,000 travelers?

Remember, the 9/11 hijackers used items that were not prohibited at the time. How can you say TSA is "better"?

This is a job that absolutely does not need to be done by federal employees, any more than flying the airplanes does. It's a wasteful pork project, put in place solely to give a false sense of "better security" to the traveling public. I see it's worked on you.

 

[Outta Here]

Funny thing is this is one of the main reasons our owners fly on us or companies have their own corporate flight departments is the convenience . I was on a flight one time when our owner "had an issue" with a CBP guy in PBI. First our owner immediately made a phone call, to whom i dont know, i suppose to washington. Then the head CBP person came out and profusely appologied. The owner then told me dont worry he wont work here tommorow. So my guess because of the caliber of the people we fly, that idea brought up by the GENERAL AVIATION TSA MANAGER will float like a lead balloon.

 

[airspeed]

If this passes muster, its no longet the United States of America, its the police state of former america

 

[FLYLOW22]

This is going to be ridiculously inconvenient and wasteful for Part 91 corporate flight departments.

Don't worry bud. We've done it for 4 years now. Just had to use the procedure today, it took 5 minutes.

3 plane fulls of Owners going to the same place that all wanted to switch planes.

5 minutes.

It's better than forcing TSA searches of planes at random stops like US Customs forces on Int'l flights coming from the south.

Imagine that fun.

 

[duc driver]

I have a counter-terrorism background in the military and I can tell the TSA is a wast of tax payers money.

Just look at the many report of stealing in the news, the continued failures of checkpoints to find firearms smuggled in by TSA evaluators.

 

[Sparse]

The proposal would take effect next year at the earliest and be phased in over two years.

So the terrorist have two years to formulate a plan and carry it out. You have to love the TSA. Remember those famous words of Senator Tom Diaschle, "you can't professionalize unless you federalize".

 

[waka]

The Government is not the answer, especially the TSA.

Is that your canned answer? I'm no TSA apologist but, if the government doesn't maintain a list of passengers that are a security risk, then who do you suppose will? Do you think anti-terrorist investigation and law enforcement should be privatized?

 

[realityman]

Our freedoms are slipping away. Now you have to get approval from the government to travel in your own vehicle. Didn't his happen in Nazi Germany?

Someone here actually got right to the core of the matter!

It is utterly RIDICULOUS to to have to get permission from ANYONE to travel in your own vehicle!! Be it, plane, car, boat, motorcycle, or skateboard.

But planes can be used to blow up things blah blah blah (the usual rant). And Timothy McVeigh didn't do any damage with a moving truck? Anyone remember the bombing of the USS Cole (boats were used to deliver the explosive blast)?

If you own the jet, it's your personal vehicle. Same as your car. Since when do we need government permission to go flying in our own plane? Or driving in our own car?

As for the argument about not knowing who is getting on the plane, well, from my perspective, I only need to know who the lead pax is. I've been flying private jets for 18 years now, and I have NEVER had a group of pax get on a flight and not know who the other people are. What? Some terrorist carrying 500# of explosive-laden luggage is just going to blend in with a group of 4 or 5 people getting on a private jet and no one will notice until we're in the air??

We need to reign in our government NOW!!!