DL/NWA Seniority List Integration Arbitration starts TODAY...article

[MCDU]

NWA pilots will be furlough fodder if DAL pilots get their way. 2007 DOH remain employed while pilots hired in 2000 will hit the street.
Seniority should never be for sale. You will never get it back. Taking a snap shot and trying to predict on who will in better shape is a sham. DOH with conditions and protections. Union principles.
DOH at USAIR will only effect the pilot group for 10 years. After that, 80% of East pilot group will be gone and the AWA pilots will be all screaming how DOH is the only fair way.

DOH is the way to go. Like the Piedmont pilots who intially fought DOH while merging with USAIR. DOH with conditions and protections works in the long run, but most pilots are to short sighted to grasp that concept.

M

 

[michael707767]

DOH is the way to go. Like the Piedmont pilots who intially fought DOH while merging with USAIR. DOH with conditions and protections works in the long run, but most pilots are to short sighted to grasp that concept.

ALPA policy makes no mention of DOH.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Guess what. the next ten years are the problem. DC-9's going bye bye, 744's that were put on short term leases, with the assumption that the 787 would be on time, will go bye bye as there are many people out there that want them, 742's in the words of our VP of MTC are DOA, 320's that are nearing the end of their life(old ones), MD-88's only have about 10 years left in them (per our fleet plan)
Notice that all but the 88 come from NWA. I believe that we(DAL) are correct in our thinking that many of these will be gone in the next five years. With or with out a merger. With out it the 744 would be replaced, with 18 787, the DC-9's are being replaced with 175's, CR-9's and the like. With the DALPA proposal it takes in to account where the furloughs will come from when, not if these airframes are parked.
I know you are defensive, I would be too. It is tough to face the cold hard reality that even though you are making money now, your fleet will be farmed out much like ours was a half a decade ago. We realized our pain, we refuse to endure the pain of rationalizing your fleet.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Northwest Fleet (as of 3/31/08)
Aircraft Seats Owned Leased Total Orders
B747-400 403 4 12 16 -
B747-200 Freighter - 9 3 12 -
B787-800 TBD - - - 18
A330-300 298 21 - 21

A330-200 243 11 - 11 -
B757-300 224 16 - 16 -
B757-200 182 38 17 55 -
A320-200 148 45 28 73 2
A319-100 124 55 2 57 5
DC9-50 125 34 - 34 -
DC9-40 110 11 - 11 -
DC9-30 100 42 - 42 -
CRJ-200 50/44 - 141 141 -
CRJ-900 76 19 - 19 17
EMB-175 76 16 - 16 19
Total Jet Aircraft
321 203 524 61

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Most of your orders are for 175's and CR-9's last time I checked those were not going to be flown by you or us.
This data comes from your website.

 

[FDJ2]

Easy, its because we havent gone below that specified floor. That is precisely why the decision to park (not retire) those DC9s when they did. That was done before the floor was set. That is also why the number of CRJ900's and EMB175s were ordered and none further. Had they ordered more it would have gone against the language.

So if they "retire" vs "park" all the DC-9s, how many 51-76 seat RJs can NWA operate?

 

[Superpilot92]

the DC-9's are being replaced with 175's, CR-9's and the like. With the DALPA proposal it takes in to account where the furloughs will come from when, not if these airframes are parked.

You of all people know and understand the SCOPE language yet you pretend its not there, why? I know it makes your argument sound better but still.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You agreed with me on another board. All it takes is a LOA bud.
Read what FDJ2 states. That my friend is fact. Nuances of the terms of the scope is what you need to understand. The lawyers do.

 

[DTW320]

Guess what. the next ten years are the problem. DC-9's going bye bye, 744's that were put on short term leases, with the assumption that the 787 would be on time, will go bye bye as there are many people out there that want them, 742's in the words of our VP of MTC are DOA, 320's that are nearing the end of their life(old ones), MD-88's only have about 10 years left in them (per our fleet plan)
Notice that all but the 88 come from NWA. I believe that we(DAL) are correct in our thinking that many of these will be gone in the next five years. With or with out a merger. With out it the 744 would be replaced, with 18 787, the DC-9's are being replaced with 175's, CR-9's and the like. With the DALPA proposal it takes in to account where the furloughs will come from when, not if these airframes are parked.
I know you are defensive, I would be too. It is tough to face the cold hard reality that even though you are making money now, your fleet will be farmed out much like ours was a half a decade ago. We realized our pain, we refuse to endure the pain of rationalizing your fleet.

Ooooh, new spin! Cool! NWA 744's will now be parked and that will cause more NWA furloughs. Entertaining fiction you have dreamed up there.
787 was never a planned replacement for 744's. Sorry. Different mission entirely. Richard seems pretty excited about using the 744 in the DAL system. DC-9 ASM's can't be replaced with the # of 175's allowed.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Not spin fact. Look at the financing on the 744's when it was done and how it correlates to the 787.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

ACL,

You must be getting nervous. You used to be a rational, somewhat informative poster. By the way some of you guys are now acting you better change your tune and stop this merger. With the markets like they are I think a new "keep my delta my delta" campaign enlisting all delta employees would be the best for y'all. And don't tell me it can't be done, too far down the road etc. If all delta employees vowed to not accept this merger with the broke, broken down northern tier, no hope airline you could just have all the internal growth you want. I am sure if you stop this, we will ch11 immediatly and the credit markets will gladly loan delta the money to aquire the parts that they need to fill out their global network and conquer the world. Seriously, if nwa is in as bad a shape as some of you are painting you are doing yourselves and your beloved delta a disservice by not getting the bod and stockholders to stop this terrible decision.

Not spin fact. Look at the financing on the 744's when it was done and how it correlates to the 787.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Take what I say however you want. Truth is that NWA is in a decent position today, as DAL is. The fact is that your airframes pose a greater risk of being rightsized out of the fleet. That must be taken in to account. The large ones will be replaced and that is evident by the orders and arguments. The small ones do not come back. They haven't in our case and they will not in yours.
There is no desire on my part to stop the merger. I think that long term we are both better off many times over. What I take issue with is what I stated before. DAL rightsized its fleet post 9/11. In turn NWA will have some right sizing to do. I just do not think that we DAL pilots on the bottom end of the list need to take the hit for that.
As far as I am concerned that is a rational point of view. Whether you agree or disagree, on here is fine by me, but if the rolls were reversed you would be arguing the same talking points I am.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And BTW I am not nervous at all. As stated many months ago, I have a backup plan, and have no issue with that. I just do not like, "taking one for the team."

 

[DTW320]

Not spin fact. Look at the financing on the 744's when it was done and how it correlates to the 787.

Shhhhh....don't tell RA.

 

[PuffDriver]

ACL,

You must be getting nervous. You used to be a rational, somewhat informative poster. By the way some of you guys are now acting you better change your tune and stop this merger. With the markets like they are I think a new "keep my delta my delta" campaign enlisting all delta employees would be the best for y'all. And don't tell me it can't be done, too far down the road etc. If all delta employees vowed to not accept this merger with the broke, broken down northern tier, no hope airline you could just have all the internal growth you want. I am sure if you stop this, we will ch11 immediatly and the credit markets will gladly loan delta the money to aquire the parts that they need to fill out their global network and conquer the world. Seriously, if nwa is in as bad a shape as some of you are painting you are doing yourselves and your beloved delta a disservice by not getting the bod and stockholders to stop this terrible decision.

You guys crack me up. It's not about our beloved Delta, or how crappy NWA is, or how much NWA double premium platinum super duper Pac Rim stuff. It is about what each side brings to the table, and what each side does NOT bring to the table in order to preserve career expectations on both sides in pre-merger versus post merger.

You pulled this whhhaaa, whhhaaaa :crying: crap with the joint CBA stuff as well. Why don't you, DTW, Super, and the rest sit down and take a cold hard look at what was happening before the merger. You can spin all you want, but we all know that Delta pilots had better career expectations throughout the list at the time given. It WILL be reflected in the list. The rest of your stuff is just more whaaaa, whhhaaa. There it is. DOH hurts the Delta pilots career expectations post merger from what they had pre merger. End of story.

 

[FDJ2]

DC-9 ASM's can't be replaced with the # of 175's allowed.

But NWA has been and plans on cutting capacity.

NALPA admitted that the replacement for the aging DC-9 is the 77-110 seat jet. Paying even less than the DC-9. Nevertheless, 90 76 seaters carry about as many ASMs as 60 aging DC-9s.

 

[DTW320]

Why don't you, DTW, Super, and the rest sit down and take a cold hard look at what was happening before the merger.

You're OBVIOUSLY referring to the deteriorating financials at DAL compared to NWA pre merger announcement. We weren't going to bring that up, but since YOU did....

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Shhhhh....don't tell RA.

I remember when RA was at NWA him saying that he would never buy another 4 engine airplane. This information is coming from valid sources.

 

[FDJ2]

You're OBVIOUSLY referring to the deteriorating financials at DAL compared to NWA pre merger announcement. We weren't going to bring that up, but since YOU did....

DAL: Revenue for latest 12 months: $20.2 billion
Debt: $10.9 billion
Unrestricted cash and short-term investments: $3.2 billion

NWA: Revenue for latest 12 months: $13.2 billion
Debt: $9.9 billion
Unrestricted cash and short-term investments: $3.2 billion

$9.9B in debt with only $13.2 billion in revenue to service it. DAL has $1B more debt but $7B more revenue to service it.

 

[DTW320]

But NWA has been and plans on cutting capacity.

NALPA admitted that the replacement for the aging DC-9 is the 77-110 seat jet. Paying even less than the DC-9. Nevertheless, 90 76 seaters carry about as many ASMs as 60 aging DC-9s.

How bout 54 76 seaters? Of course you know that 36 of them simply replaced the AVRO's that Mesaba had been operating for years.