DAL/NWA SLI Hearings in a nutshell

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Just a thread to compare notes on what we are reading from the hearings. This is just my interpretation of the hearings and could be incorrect. Does anyone know of a source for the actual exhibit documents?
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Pilot staffing:

Beginning on a baseline of July 2008, Delta’s pilot staffing needs will increase as follows:
by 2010 + 407
by 2011 + 506
by 2012 + 518

Northwest’s staffing will decrease:
by 2010 (+106 International – 800 domestic) = - 695
by 2011 – 647 (or ~ 48 more pilots than required in 2010)

If DC9’s remain at 61 jets and 747-200’s stay
by 2010 – 398
by 2011 - 93

Then the following day, October 4th, corrections were made generally changing NWA’s numbers plus 90 pilots, reflecting the fact that the NWA baseline DC9 fleet was already smaller than the economist expert had believed to be the case.

* anyone know the status of NWA's staffing shortfall under DAL's minimum staffing models? I had always thought this was a red herring, but am surprised no mention has been made of this so called 400 pilot shortfall in the SLI discussions.....

DAL SLI Methodology: (relative seniority by category)

Delta: 6,555 revenue pilots in service (not counting long term leaves, disability, etc…)
NWA: 4,271 “” “”

747-400 top 3.6%
777-200 top 3% and so on ….

Relative seniority, grouped by:
International Captain (777, 767-400, 767ER & 747, A330 and some 757’s)
Domestic Large Gauge Captain (ie 767, 757)
Domestic Medium Gauge Captain (737, A320, MD88/90)
Domestic Small Gauge Captain (DC9) and International First Officer
Domestic Large Gauge First Officer
Domestic Medium Gauge First Officer
Domestic Small Gauge First Officer

Three year fence. NWA pilots can bid across fence into DAL open pilot slots when there are insufficient Delta pilots bidding the slots. (I'm guessing the 787 is a NWA category, or a new category)

Rationale: “We saw information presented about
[FONT=&quot]10 [/FONT]the markets that the aircraft had been used
[FONT=&quot]11 [/FONT]in, the way that the DC-9 is used and the
[FONT=&quot]12 [/FONT]tremendous similarity between it and the
[FONT=&quot]13 [/FONT]76-seater. They are basically interchangeable
[FONT=&quot]14 [/FONT]in Northwest usage right now and that is the
[FONT=&quot]15 [/FONT]fair and equitable place for them to be.”

…. the 12th year captain pay rate
[FONT=&quot]7 [/FONT]on the DC-9 is about $5 less and it's real
[FONT=&quot]8 [/FONT]close to the 76-400 12th year pay rate. But
[FONT=&quot]9 [/FONT]when we analyzed the list, the July 1st list
[FONT=&quot]10 [/FONT]that was provided to us by the Northwest
[FONT=&quot]11 [/FONT]merger committee representatives, we found
[FONT=&quot]12 [/FONT]that despite the pay rate on the Northwest
[FONT=&quot]13 [/FONT]side of a DC-9 captain being slightly higher
[FONT=&quot]14 [/FONT]than a first officer on the 737-400, the
[FONT=&quot]15 [/FONT]seniority, the average seniority of the pilots
[FONT=&quot]16 [/FONT]that were serving in positions as a DC-9
[FONT=&quot]17 [/FONT]captain was junior to not only the 747-400
[FONT=&quot]18 [/FONT]first officers and not only the 747-200 first
[FONT=&quot]19 [/FONT]officers, but also junior to the A-330-first
[FONT=&quot]20 [/FONT]officers.
[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT]So there was a very clear, if you
[FONT=&quot]22 [/FONT]want to say, bidding choice that the more
[FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT]senior pilots chose to remain as first
[FONT=&quot]24 [/FONT]officers on international wide-body
[FONT=&quot]25 [/FONT]operations,

NWA SLI Methodology:

Date of Hire

 

[MXAV8R]

thanks for the write up

 

[Fubijaakr]

DoH won't fly. Learn from history, boys.

 

[Flybet3]

DoH won't fly. Learn from history, boys.

just shut the f**** up. DOH! YAY!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I like what DALPA proposed. It is a top to bottom ratio.

 

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Will NWA present witnesses?

Anyone know of a schedule for each side's presentations?

 

[FDJ2]

Will NWA present witnesses?

Anyone know of a schedule for each side's presentations?

NALPA will have equal time to present their position and witnesses. The next arbitration hearing will be October 20-24.

 

[Flying the Line]

So DC-9 captains to be junior to all int'l f/o's? That's a screw job.

 

[FDJ2]

So DC-9 captains to be junior to all int'l f/o's? That's a screw job.

DC-9 Captain positions would be merged with wide bodied first officer positions, not below them. Based on pay and historic bidding paterns, similarly, 747-200 second officer positions would be merged with 767/757 first officers.

 

[BigMotorToter]

What happens to the furloughed Delta pilots who bypassed recall and still have several years to go untill their recall rights expire? Do they get integrated or stapled?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They are merged just like your pilots on bypass recall. If you are on the list you are part of the plan. Not just active.
I thought that the list was very fair.

 

[Rough67]

I thought that the list was very fair.

you thought wrong.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Nice of the Delta guys to staple 403 Northwest pilots below the last Delta pilot hired almost a month after the merger was officially announced. It was extremely nice of the Delta pilots to place pilots hired at Northwest in early 2000 behind every single Delta pilot also. Northwest was hiring until the merger was announced. This list is extremely fair.

 

[AirportBum]

DC-9 Captain positions would be merged with wide bodied first officer positions, not below them. Based on pay and historic bidding paterns, similarly, 747-200 second officer positions would be merged with 767/757 first officers.

The HUGE flaw I see with this approach is it gives no consideration to guys bidding QOL.

There are newhires at DAL in widebody positions while more senior guys are flying narrowbodies for QOL. Will your method attempt to put them ahead, just because they are flying a 767 by default? I asked a stupid question here because it points to a big concern.

It will be hard to draw the line when merging in NWA guys to say who deserves to be more senior based on what they're currently flying, or even could hold, because that's all relative to the ENTIRE group's QOL preferences. It could be argued that DAL pilots value QOL more than NWA pilots (ie not wanting to sit reserve in NYC) and this is the main reason widebodies have gone so junior at DAL. A widebody is much more senior at NWA than DAL. Are you saying a newhire 767 FO should be senior to (or merged in with) an 18 year DC-9 CA at NWA?

Don't think DOH is fair, but I see some problems with DAL's opener too. (HINT: that's what they're supposed to be doing to end up near a middle ground)

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Ratio based upon equipment all the way down. (Once the list was rationalized that is)

I still think that everyone will be within 1 or 2 percentage points of current seniority. I have done a few spot checks and it holds true.