SWA Contract - How good is it?

[JoeMerchant]

No argument there. But there's no reason why your wildly profitable company can't provide you a good B-fund so you don't have to contribute your own money to retirement if you choose not to.

How's the Air Tran B fund? How were the PNCL and Gulfstream B funds?......

 

[PCL_128]

I thought we don't compete with one another....You sure are worried about what SWA gets.....

We don't. But we do pattern bargain off of one another.

 

[PCL_128]

How's the Air Tran B fund?

Pretty good. Thanks for asking.

 

[satpak77]

just a side note, the 401(k) stuff, 401(k)s were NOT designed to benefit the worker, despite spin by corporate America, they were designed FOR the companies, so that they would no longer have to pay $$ cash in pensions and could instead put the burden on the market itself and the worker to choose investment choices.

If the market is in the dumps, well, so is your 401(k). If the market is up, 401(k)s are "better" than pensions. A 401(k) in 1998 was the hottest thing around. Now? Give me a pension.

observe how very few companies, the US Govt included, offer a "pension" as a retirement plan. There is a reason for that.

 

[momalley81]

If the market is in the dumps, well, so is your 401(k). If the market is up, 401(k)s are "better" than pensions. A 401(k) in 1998 was the hottest thing around. Now? Give me a pension.

Not true. If your investments in your 401k are in Cash and Bonds then you are beating the market. You don't have to be in 100% equities in your 401k.

Furthermore, ask the USAir guys how they like their pension right now. An A-fund is not yours until you sign on the dotted line at retirement.

And a B-fund is simply a 401k that you don't have to contribute to. Many times (as in the case with AA) it is almost 100% tied to equities with the employee having no say how that money is invested.

 

[momalley81]

No argument there. But there's no reason why your wildly profitable company can't provide you a good B-fund so you don't have to contribute your own money to retirement if you choose not to.

If you choose not to contribute to your 401k then you are an idiot.

End of story.

 

[satpak77]

Not true. If your investments in your 401k are in Cash and Bonds then you are beating the market. You don't have to be in 100% equities in your 401k.

Furthermore, ask the USAir guys how they like their pension right now. An A-fund is not yours until you sign on the dotted line at retirement.

And a B-fund is simply a 401k that you don't have to contribute to. Many times (as in the case with AA) it is almost 100% tied to equities with the employee having no say how that money is invested.

An investment in cash and bonds will yield 3-6%. The problem is that 98% of the general public does not know when to go cash and bonds.

You have valid observations on the A-fund, etc.

However (this is an airline thread, yes, but...) in most scenarios a pension is a better benefit than a 401(k) is.

 

[momalley81]

An investment in cash and bonds will yield 3-6%. The problem is that 98% of the general public does not know when to go cash and bonds.

You have valid observations on the A-fund, etc.

However (this is an airline thread, yes, but...) in most scenarios a pension is a better benefit than a 401(k) is.

I wouldn't mind having a B-fund that was self directed however I want NO PART of an A-fund.

No A-fund at all.

However, if it is self directed then I have the same problems with market fluctuation and market timing that everyone else has with a 401k.

That being said my point that a B-fund is not better than a 401k still holds water. They are almost one in the same and the A-fund is too risky to have in the airline sector.

So again I respectfully disagree. I don't think a pension is better than a 401k.

 

[PCL_128]

If you choose not to contribute to your 401k then you are an idiot.

End of story.

That's not the point. The point is that you shouldn't be required to contribute some of your salary to your retirement. Anything you contribute should be icing on the cake. There should be a base retirement contribution from your employer without a dime coming from you.

 

[satpak77]

I wouldn't mind having a B-fund that was self directed however I want NO PART of an A-fund.

No A-fund at all.

However, if it is self directed then I have the same problems with market fluctuation and market timing that everyone else has with a 401k.

That being said my point that a B-fund is not better than a 401k still holds water. They are almost one in the same and the A-fund is too risky to have in the airline sector.

So again I respectfully disagree. I don't think a pension is better than a 401k.

Well let me meet you half-way and say a non-airline pension in almost all cases is indeed better.

I would rather get a pension from Exxon than a 401(k) from Exxon. etc

 

[momalley81]

That's not the point. The point is that you shouldn't be required to contribute some of your salary to your retirement. Anything you contribute should be icing on the cake. There should be a base retirement contribution from your employer without a dime coming from you.

No, that is the point.

I am not required to contribute anything from my salary to my retirement yet I choose to so that I can live the life I want to when I choose to retire.

If you want to compare contracts and what employers should be doing for their employees then lets compare SWA to AirTran and vice versa.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That's not the point. The point is that you shouldn't be required to contribute some of your salary to your retirement. Anything you contribute should be icing on the cake. There should be a base retirement contribution from your employer without a dime coming from you.

That is the thinking that has gotten us into this problem....We should all be contributing more to our retirement and health care.....The retirement and health care fairy doesn't exist....It is our responsibity to save for these things.....

I'm not sure where you folks think the money comes from to support someone from 60 to 90.....It doesn't fall out of the sky.....

You can either work longer or save more earlier.....Your choice.....

 

[satpak77]

I will add that if anybody is "relying on someone else" for their retirement, shame on them. We all should contribute a little something to somewhere, savings, 401(k) contributions, real estate, somewhere.

 

[maxblast72]

However as a third year F/O, I would rather have 7.3% of $130,000 versus 10.5% of $65,000

However as a fourth year Captain, I would rather have 10.5% of $140,000 a year than your 7.3% of $130,000. Now, when you upgrade in 10-12 years, you'll kick my ass but it is a long time between now and then.

 

[momalley81]

However as a fourth year Captain, I would rather have 10.5% of $140,000 a year than your 7.3% of $130,000. Now, when you upgrade in 10-12 years, you'll kick my ass but it is a long time between now and then.

$140,000 for an airline Captain really isn't anything to brag about.

We have F/O's pulling in over $200,000 a year.

However, for me that is working too hard and I like having 17-18 days off a month so that I can focus my energies in my other place of employment.

We even have some Captain's bringing home over $400,000. I wouldn't want their lifestyle yet I am sure their checks are somewhat impressive.