Hurray for the 1108, The RIFed are back !

[skyismyoffice]

Remember that in the absence of a binding contract that which has been given can just as easily be taken away.

Agreed.

I ain't over till the fat contract is signed!

We are now owned by HIG, an investment group that buys, grows then SELLS! Without a strong contract we don't have squat.

 

[xpdriver]

Apparently Kenn Ricci was very instrumental in putting all the RIF pilots back on the line. Our MEC rocks but I have to say that Mr. Ricci seems to deserve some credit as well. FLOPs may actually become a place where Union and Management can actually work side by side. I would have never thunk it.

Put down the kool-aid and step away from the frig...

 

[dime line]

Put down the kool-aid and step away from the frig...

sky is the last guy to drink the koolaid, but uncle kenn does get a smigen of credit. I will give the 1108 the majority but Ken does get some credit. I don't think its koolaid, ken was part of the process as well. Trust but verify, that is what were doing. Thank you 1108 and Ken.



(This was typed today, tomorrow might be different)

 

[B19 Flyer]

Dayyyummm.....pardon me while I get clear of the impending lightning bolt!

I agree...Kenn seems to have taken some positive steps in the right direction. IMHO, I wouldn't be lulled into a false sense of good feeling by his overtures. It is essential that you folks stay the course. Remember that in the absence of a binding contract that which has been given can just as easily be taken away.

Exactly what I've been saying. They were bargaining chips, nothing more. As I stated already,

"It's part of the process and those that lost their jobs can blame their counterparts for bringing the union onto the property to give them the opportunity to lose their jobs, then get hired back later as a "feel good" and "good faith" part of the bargaining process. If you guys don't see that, than you're all a lot dumber than I thought you were.

 

[400pilot]

Dude, I hate to break it to you, but it was only the fools (company kool aid drinkers) here that actually believed what management said. Everyone else (and that would be the majority of us) knew this was a play and the rif pilots were going to be used by management as bargaining chips. We pilots have been talking about this possibility for the last few years. You call it "part of the process" and that is true. This is a perfect example of what UNETHICAL MANAGEMENT feels is "part of the process"......

I find it extremely amusing when people act like they are the only ones privy to such basic knowledge.....

 

[netjetwife]

Good post, 400! It also explains why Scheeringa got the boot. Luckily, KR appears to understand the importance of working with the pilots instead of against them. Perhaps he realizes that holding pilots as hostages hurts the company, too, because it ruins morale. It's a huge distraction when pilots are wondering if they will be next. That's hardly conducive to building a good working relationship...

 

[993_Pilot]

Exactly what I've been saying. They were bargaining chips, nothing more. As I stated already,

"It's part of the process and those that lost their jobs can blame their counterparts for bringing the union onto the property to give them the opportunity to lose their jobs, then get hired back later as a "feel good" and "good faith" part of the bargaining process. If you guys don't see that, than you're all a lot dumber than I thought you were.

Quit being so smug, we all realized that it was a possibility. However, it didn't have to be done, and it just goes to show you what our management was like... they were willing to potentially ruin the lives of many a family, in order to have their "bargaining chip". Apparently, it was a stupid bargaining chip too, because how does the company benefit when the pilots give the credit to the union for bringing them back? ... they don't, it just makes them believe more in the power of their union. So what was really gained by this? All that move did was to make everyone realize the necessity of their union, because without it, there is no protection for something like this happening again.

 

[netjetwife]

Well said, 993!

 

[CE750Driver]

Exactly what I've been saying. They were bargaining chips, nothing more. As I stated already,

"It's part of the process and those that lost their jobs can blame their counterparts for bringing the union onto the property to give them the opportunity to lose their jobs, then get hired back later as a "feel good" and "good faith" part of the bargaining process. If you guys don't see that, than you're all a lot dumber than I thought you were.

Yeah dumbass, no kidding. But you, you make it seem like the union made them bargaining chips. Can you explain to me in real terms where it was not the company, but the union, that made them bargaining chips?????

Go get your GED dumbass. The company fired them, making the play.

Ohhh, ohhhh, please tell me where the union CAUSED this problem.

Dumbass.

 

[dime line]

The COMPANY (da19 and shtfgr) let go 7 canpass pilots
The COMPANY (da19 and shtfgr) out of senority, laid off 70 pilots

The UNION (fellow pilots) got 70 rif pilots jobs back
The UNION (fellow pilots) got 5 canpass pilots jobs back


So who is the bad guy here?

 

[greygoose]

If it comes down to it that the company used the RIF as a bargaining chip to negotiate lower wages or benefits. It might get passed the negotiating committee, but it wont get passed the pilot group.
If it truly was a bargaining chip the company would not of brought them back until the contract was accepted by the pilot group. Brining them back now before a contract was accepted by the pilots, doesn't sound like a good bargaining chip.

 

[cougar12]

B19 forgets that their are a few of the 70 that are not coming back and do not have to sign the I will not sue your a$$ off letter. And I understand they have an attorney already. It is going to be an expensive bargaining chip by the time you factor this in and a contract.

So keep spewing your FUD MORAN!

 

[netjetwife]

GG, I think it was more of an intimidation tactic to break the will of the pilot group and when it had obviously backfired they decided to give MS the boot, and get back on track. It wasn't exactly good PR material :erm: so it's easy to see why they dumped the idea and the unethical CEO behind it.

DL, I knew about the Canpass situation but didn't know how many pilots had been fired. What happened to the 2 pilots who didn't come back? Was it their choice not to? Are there any more hostages still out there...

 

[dime line]

still 2 out there.

 

[Freedom]

Still Remaining....

6 More Hostages

2 More Canpass Victims

And a former Pilot Support Manager who was Fired for being too Pro-Pilot???

Imagine that. A Pilot Support Manager can be too Pro Pilot? Is that even possible?


Freedom is Not Free

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks for the update Feedom. So there are still 9 out there waiting to be brought back who were fired for trumped up reasons... My sympathies to them and their families. Seeing so many others get their jobs back must bring on mixed emotions of happiness and frustration. What a difficult time!

Guys, you're solidarity and determination is bringing results. Keep it up and you'll get everyone back!

To Flight Options management: You're on a roll! Just nine more to go! With each person returned morale will increase and your credibility will also. Considering the trust deficit caused by MS and BT, you can't afford not to do the right thing.

 

[Way2Broke]

So are we safe to apply now?

 

[netjetwife]

Imagine that. A Pilot Support Manager can be too Pro Pilot? Is that even possible?....

I don't think so. Better extra than not enough. If he was popular among the pilots then it's very telling that he was fired...
Likewise, bringing him back will send a strong message that management is willing to start working with the pilotgroup.
Fingers crossed,
NJW

 

[netjetwife]

W2B, I wouldn't recommend it until the new contract is in place. With all the labor strife and morale problems they've had there, it's definitely the kind of place you have to go into with all the info you can get--not to mention safeguards. NJW

 

[Way2Broke]

I'll just stay unemployed then. :erm: Ever been in a unemployment line? The only thing stopping me from applying was that the people were on the street. Food stamps, or Options, which one would you take? It couldn't possibly be any worse than being on a pager 24/7 flying car parts to the middle of no where Mexico at godforsaken hours of the night.

BTW, NJA is returning apps. and our household income is Zero as we both got laid off with no recall rights. Wanna know what no union gets you? There you have it.

 

[Myster79]

I'll just stay unemployed then. :erm: Ever been in a unemployment line? The only thing stopping me from applying was that the people were on the street. Food stamps, or Options, which one would you take? It couldn't possibly be any worse than being on a pager 24/7 flying car parts to the middle of no where Mexico at godforsaken hours of the night.

BTW, NJA is returning apps. and our household income is Zero as we both got laid off with no recall rights. Wanna know what no union gets you? There you have it.

Then apply. However, they probably will not start interviewing until we a reach a TA.

 

[greygoose]

Then apply. However, they probably will not start interviewing until we a reach a TA.

What are you two talking about? As of now FLOPS isnt hiring.

 

[Myster79]

What are you two talking about? As of now FLOPS isnt hiring.

HUH? Reread my post. I believe that is what I just said. Sorry, I will clarify it. Go ahead and send them your resume. However, you will not get an interview until probably after a TA is reached.

 

[Way2Broke]

If I can get my stuff in the stack and take advantage of all the good work that the group has been doing once the TA is in place, I don't see how it could be a bad idea.

 

[waka]

Hopefully many of them have gone elsewhere to greener pastures. 1108 will claim success on bringing them back, but will never admit defeat for getting them fired in the first place.

Funny I don't remember the 1108 leadership telling these pilots you fired on May 23!!! I remember FLOPS leadership (if you call it leadership) telling these pilots YOUR FIRED!!!!

MORON

Babbling B19 has never legitimately answered real questions like this.

 

[waka]

What is with KR on the weekly message calling Black Friday a "reduction"? What a lame euphemism!

On a separate note; If it is possible, I encourage any pilots that are offered their jobs back to accept the job, get your back pay and quit with no notice.

 

[netjetwife]

W2B, I'm sorry if I appeared uncaring. That is certainly not the case. I simply thought you could do better elsewhere and had probably already applied at other places. I hope something turns up soon. Good luck to both of you! I'll keep my fingers crossed. NJW

 

[Way2Broke]

NJW, sorry if I came off the wrong way. I am very frustrated lately, and I am sure it shows. Being put on the street from a company that I had put my heart and soul into is really devastating. I had every intention of staying at my previous employer for at least 3-5 more years, and I never saw what happened coming. I have had a wealth of support from my fellow pilot, but I have yet to generate a job from any of my networking. I can only pray that we can get back in the seat before it is too late, and everything we have worked so hard for has gone down the tubes. I thought by avoiding the traditional airlines I was somewhat immune to my current situation. Reminds me of a quote my parents use to tell me growing up, "if you want to hear god laugh tell him your plans." I am so sick of this bumpy road, but my faith in people and my love of flying will carry me through.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Babbling B19 has never legitimately answered real questions like this.

I don't remember the union telling ME or my coworkers (many of them card carrying union members) that we were being laid off either time.

It was clear that it was the union action that caused the problem both times. Many of the others went back to fly for the same companies. I went to greener pastures (no unions!) after the second time wishing never to have it happen again.
Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Work where there is a union? Expect the same turmoil and results no matter where you are.

So.. what's the question you want answered?

 

[B19 Flyer]

W2B, I'm sorry if I appeared uncaring.

Gee, what a shock. NJW appearing uncaring. In all of these posts not once have you been concerned about any of the other employees that were laid off along with the 70 pilots.

All of them should be brought back, not just the pilots NJW. They were laid off as a direct statement regarding the union activity as bargaining chips.

Have you not mentioned any of the others because in your opinion they didn't invest properly in their careers?

Yes, you appearing uncaring. It's not a matter of "appearing" uncaring. You ARE uncaring.