freedom 900 agreement terminated

[777forever]

OK I am NOT a McCain supporter. But when did he say that. I just want more fuel for the fire.

Source: Fort Worth Star-Telegram

Sen. John McCain may have the Republican party nomination wrapped up, but he still has some convincing to do with one group of traditionally Republican voters. No, I'm not talking about evangelical Christians - I'm talking about commercial airline pilots.

McCain co-sponsored legislation in 2003 that would have changed the Railway Labor Act to include mandatory "baseball-style" arbitration in airline contract negotiations. That's a method whereby a mediator makes the final decision on disputed issues, and there is no appeal. Unions have long opposed any attempts to force that type of arbitration, because it removes their greatest form of leverage - the ability to strike.

McCain's 2003 effort failed, but lots of pilots still remember it. One told me recently that he will never vote for the Arizona senator, and he believes many of his colleagues feel the same way.

"Look, most pilots are ex-military, they're professionals, most of them vote Republican and have all their lives," the pilot said. "But when it comes to McCain, most of us all remember how he backed airline management and tried to screw the pilots. That's going to cost him some votes."

http://startelegram.typepad.com/sky_talk/2008/02/john-mccain-and.html

For the love of your career and future aspirations for your family, do not vote McCain!

 

[777forever]

Pilots are morons and I would rather sacrifice a union than the whole economy and a way of life. You need to ask your candidate what exactly he means by change. Would it be the kind of change Saul Alinsky advocated?

Vote McCain and you'll sacrifice ALL three. I guarantee it.

 

[samballs]

You know a lot of us were saying a few years ago that the bidding wars for regional flying would get nasty.

What's funny from my stand point is the story told about how we got the Dash-8 flying out of JFK. I was told it goes something like this. Delta needed somebody to man some gates out of JFK or otherwise they would end up back in the hands of the Airport Authority and put up for bid. Because Big D needed those gates for future widebody flying they were desperate.

They went to all the code shares and asked the same question. Could you have this thing up and running by X date? All of them said no, except JO. He said hell yes we could make it happen, no sweat. He then goes out and leases all the Dash-8 airframes he can get his hands on and spends a fortune on getting them airworthy. But to his credit in the end he was able to pull it off. In my opinion all this effort was so he could have a favor owed to him by Delta. Lo and behold along comes the 900 flying that JO begines bragging about on company e-mails.

Fast forward to today while we continue to fight in court to save the EMB145 flying. Then the other shoe drops with the announcment about the CX'ing of the JFK 900 flying. Talk about no loyalty...

Man I hope my overseas gig pans out.

Mesaserf

I would say they gave you guys a chance, they gave Mesa 900's. Unfortunately your company happens to be the worst of the terrible regional products. customer service at Mesa is horrible, pilots look like pigs, Flight atts are more ghetto then most, and suck, planes are always broke, etc...

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Vote McCain and you'll sacrifice ALL three. I guarantee it.

Clear enough evidence that giving the vote to 18 year olds was a mistake. Should have gone the other way and pushed it back to 30, maybe 40.

 

[Speedtape]

Two words....windfall profits. You simply cannot tax profits and redistribute them. That equals socailism. Look at the expenditures for oil companys, billions of dollars, R&D costs are through the roof. The percentage of profits based on expenditures to the best of my knowledge are around 15-20 percent last I looked at my portfolio. Pretty much in line with most everything else out there.......wait....jewelery, 40% profits, clothing 30-40%, college textbooks, 25%.

Socialism? What do you think our taxing system is? Look at the tax rates across the board. The middle class is taxed the heaviest and the money is used by the government--to redistribute to the poor and the rich. It's nothing more than a transfer of wealth!

On another note, because of mutiple reasons, the Oil Companies, investors, and distribution network (middle men), are doing nothing more than TRANSFERRING WEALTH, Legal Robbery, by exploiting the middle class by driving the cost of a barrel of oil up. They are transferring money from your pocket to theirs--legally. Then they blame it on the ARABS.

 

[Big Foot]

OK can we get back to Mesa Sucking

 

[777forever]

Clear enough evidence that giving the vote to 18 year olds was a mistake. Should have gone the other way and pushed it back to 30, maybe 40.

And ignorant 40 year old airline pilots will vote for the most dangerous man to the airline profession since Lorenzo to be President of the United States

 

[homerjdispatch]

Skywest stopped hiring last month and are offering early retirements as well as LOA's for up to a year

And yet the hiring board shows F.O. positions open???? Heard the early leaves were an employee group request and few are being granted!

 

[Andy Neill]

Don't forget that Exxon paid $38 BILLION in taxes to make the $11 Billion profit (off of $138 Billion in revenue). I'm sure Obama failed to mention that when he announced his plan to 'tax' the $11 billion.

I'd be interested in your source for the $38 billion in taxes. That would require a taxation rate of 78%. In other words if they had $49 BIllion income before taxes and paid 78% in taxes, that would result in $11 Billion net income.

The amount of federal income tax they paid was probably closer to $5.9 billion which is 35% of $16.9 billion before taxes. Then again....a billion here and a billion there....well pretty soon it adds up to quite a sum of money.

 

[Speedtape]

Joe,


I still wounder how random thoughts in your mind become facts.


Currently the 12 years pay rate at Delta = a 16 years pay rate at ASA. The only reason ASA's current pay rate exceed Delta's is that they have extended CA pay rates out to 20 years and worse they have taken these raises out of the FO rates which stop increasing after 8 years.


Your statement on perspective is also very telling. The probationary FO pay at Delta is greater than the 8 year FO pay scale at ASA. And, Delta's year 5 pay rate for FOs is just slightly more than CA pay at ASA for the same equipment. So for the few people (like you) who are very senior you make a few extra dollars per hour will collectively hosing the rest of the pilot group. (All for one, and more for me.)


Now to get on with the "facts." Lets look at just pay rates without taking into account workrules and th e 11% DC/401k contributions that are increasing to 14% over the next few years.
Pay rates are for 20 year CA and 8 years FOs at ASA and 12 year CAs and FOs at Delta.


January 09
ASA 104.65 / 45.60
Delta 103.57 / 70.71


January 10
ASA 105.70 / 46.05
Delta 107.67 / 73.54


January 11
ASA 106.76 / 46.51
Delta 111.98 / 76.48


January 12
ASA starts 5 more yrs neg. with pay frozen
Delta 116.46 / 79.54


In January 10 a 12 year M88 FO will make the same as an ASA 20 year 76 seat CA.


In January 11 a 12 year DC9 FO will make the same as an ASA 20 years 76 seat CA.

imp:

Your argument is comparing Apples to Oranges! What does a 5th year Plastic Surgeon make? If you knew, it would make you rethink your aviation career. It would make about as much sense to try and make that argument!

Secondly, your allegation that Joe, and other Senior ASA pilots, are hosing the F/O's because there is only an 8 year scale for F/O's is very flawed! How many 8 year F/O's does ASA have? Maybe, 2, and they could have bid Captain at 2-3 years of employment, but for personal reasons, chose to stay F/O's! Most pilots at ASA have upgraded by 5 years. Why establish a pay scale beyond 8 years, or for that matter, 5 years?

Compare ASA pay scales to other regional airlines--apples to apples! You'll see that ASA F/O's rates are at the top--primarily because most Senior pilots supported the F/O pay rates be maintained at 60% of the Captain rate for the same longevity.

Good Luck at Delta. Oh by the way, because of a new negotiated piece in our contract, should you get furloughed, Delta pilots get preferential interviews. And if hired, they keep their Delta number, because Joe Merchant, and other Senior pilots at ASA supported it and felt it was the right thing to do! And by the way, that was not free to him or others to memorialize! It probably cost him something that could be equated to money!

 

[Smacktard]

I'd be interested in your source for the $38 billion in taxes. That would require a taxation rate of 78%. In other words if they had $49 BIllion income before taxes and paid 78% in taxes, that would result in $11 Billion net income.

The amount of federal income tax they paid was probably closer to $5.9 billion which is 35% of $16.9 billion before taxes. Then again....a billion here and a billion there....well pretty soon it adds up to quite a sum of money.

According to CNN, Exxon Mobil once again reported the largest quarterly profit in U.S. history Thursday, posting net income of $11.68 billion on revenue of $138 billion in the second quarter. That profit works out to $1,485.55 a second....
In addition to making hefty profits, Exxon also had a hefty tax bill. Worldwide, the company paid $10.5 billion in income taxes in the second quarter, $9.5 billion in sales taxes, and over $12 billion in what it called 'other taxes.'"

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/31/news/companies/exxon_profits/?postversion=2008073110

That good enough?

 

[vprMatrix]

!

Your argument is comparing Apples to Oranges! What does a 5th year Plastic Surgeon make? If you knew, it would make you rethink your aviation career. It would make about as much sense to try and make that argument!

So Mainline pilots are “Plastic Surgeons” in comparison to Regional pilots, which are just MDs? Interesting.

Secondly, your allegation that Joe, and other Senior ASA pilots, are hosing the F/O's because there is only an 8 year scale for F/O's is very flawed! How many 8 year F/O's does ASA have? Maybe, 2, and they could have bid Captain at 2-3 years of employment, but for personal reasons, chose to stay F/O's! Most pilots at ASA have upgraded by 5 years. Why establish a pay scale beyond 8 years, or for that matter, 5 years?

Ah, so ASA is only a career airline if you are a Captain. What happens now that the explosive growth of the regional airlines has stopped? Can’t you look beyond the past? Things will be different and CA upgrades won’t be as quickly as they have been but it is ok because you've got yours even if your FO has to take one for the team.

By your logic it would not have cost anything to negotiate 20 year FO pay anyway because no one would use it right?

Compare ASA pay scales to other regional airlines--apples to apples! You'll see that ASA F/O's rates are at the top--primarily because most Senior pilots supported the F/O pay rates be maintained at 60% of the Captain rate for the same longevity.

Comparing yourself to other regional airlines you’ve done a good job.

FO rates are 60% for up to 8 years, but then again there will never be an 8 year regional FO or a Captain who has to bid down for a medical, training, or any other issue. So, you got that going for you.

Good Luck at Delta. Oh by the way, because of a new negotiated piece in our contract, should you get furloughed, Delta pilots get preferential interviews. And if hired, they keep their Delta number, because Joe Merchant, and other Senior pilots at ASA supported it and felt it was the right thing to do! And by the way, that was not free to him or others to memorialize! It probably cost him something that could be equated to money!

Let’s see, you negotiated preferential interviews for Delta pilots in you contract. Could that possibly have anything to do with the Delta PWA establishing a protocol for DCI pilots to receive preferential hiring at Delta for carriers that also reciprocated hiring for Delta furloughed pilots. Oh, and it also stipulates that the Delta pilot not be required to resign his Delta seniority number.

Of course ASA was exempt from mandatory participation in this program, unlike several other DCI carriers, but I do appreciate the “something that could be equated to money” that it cost you to get preferential hiring at Delta. This is some sacrifice for your voluntary participation in the preferential hiring program DALPA negotiated for you.

 

[Andy Neill]

According to CNN, Exxon Mobil once again reported the largest quarterly profit in U.S. history Thursday, posting net income of $11.68 billion on revenue of $138 billion in the second quarter. That profit works out to $1,485.55 a second....
In addition to making hefty profits, Exxon also had a hefty tax bill. Worldwide, the company paid $10.5 billion in income taxes in the second quarter, $9.5 billion in sales taxes, and over $12 billion in what it called 'other taxes.'"

http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/31/news/companies/exxon_profits/?postversion=2008073110

That good enough?

Thanks for the reference. The only part of that I would refute would be the $9.5 billion in sales taxes. The customer pays those taxes and the company passes it along to the appropriate agencies. That is like my last employer saying the $3600 they paid in FICA taxes on my salary was an employee benefit.

 

[homerjdispatch]

Thanks for the reference. The only part of that I would refute would be the $9.5 billion in sales taxes. The customer pays those taxes and the company passes it along to the appropriate agencies. That is like my last employer saying the $3600 they paid in FICA taxes on my salary was an employee benefit.

Not a benefit, just part of "total comensation"....Haha I cant understand how people buy into that!

 

[Erlanger]

Four pages and I am the first to mention SkyWest? I surely missed it somewhere....I mean they are still hiring pilots according to the job posting board,( doesnt make sense) they currently fly the CRJ 9. Dont count them out for a piece of the freedum pie!

The President of Skywest was asked that question in a meeting yesterday. He says that Skywest is definitely not getting that flying. He didn't say if he knew who was though.