Mesa a Step Close to Vote on TA

[pdub20s]

I'll believe it when I see it. Just early this year JO was quoted in saying he has one of the highest paid CRJ pilots and that attrition has gone down. If there is anything positive that comes out of this it's because of negative intent, that's the MESA way.

Well it doesn't take a rocket scientist for figure that out..... our Capt pay rates are not bad.. and yes attrition has slowed(BECAUSE NO ONE IS HIRING)

 

[DoinTime]

.... our Capt pay rates are not bad..

Don't take this the wrong way but.....WTF are you talking about?!?

 

[Salukipilot4590]

The TA wont make it past the MEC if QOL isnt greatly improved.

and Salukipilot.... I met Obama today. Super nice guy

I for one hope it doesnt get past MEC if it's not a 180-degree change in QOL for those guys. I dont know if it's just me but EVERY Mesa crew I have hung out with in IAD, or anywhere else, was awesome! Keep up the good fight guys, I'm with you!

Oh and when I get back to LA I want to work on the campaign if there are some openings!!!

Go O-08!

 

[CX880]

I for one hope it doesnt get past MEC if it's not a 180-degree change in QOL for those guys. I dont know if it's just me but EVERY Mesa crew I have hung out with in IAD, or anywhere else, was awesome! Keep up the good fight guys, I'm with you!

Oh and when I get back to LA I want to work on the campaign if there are some openings!!!

Go O-08!

I really doubt Obama needs your help in CA.... Unless you're talking bout Louisiana.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

I really doubt Obama needs your help in CA.... Unless you're talking bout Louisiana.

Yeah back in Cali.....Just want to be part of the team dawg....just part of the team!

 

[aviatrix]

Yeah back in Cali.....Just want to be part of the team dawg....just part of the team!

Ugggh, you're makin' me queasy!

 

[JoeMerchant]

You were once a negotiator, so you should understand the "position" game. Afterall, someone brought us a self-seving "pay for training" program when it was not even on the table at the end--never mind that someone sacrificed pay rates to get it!

This is the problem with you ALPA cheerleaders.....You tell lies long enough and they become the truth...

You do realize that the PFT reimbursement was already in the first TA.....the one I didn't have anything to do with?

It was increased in TA2 because the cards we sent out showed that it was important....and payrates were not sacrificed....where do you get this crap from?

 

[Shrek]

Mesa - we are looking for you as a group to start the trend back upwards.

God speed......

 

[JoeMerchant]

Mesa - we are looking for you as a group to start the trend back upwards.

God speed......

You're going to be disappointed......

 

[sqwkvfr]

For those of you surprised that Mesa's negotiations are moving so quickly you need to consider that there have been a series of very public embarrassments in the last year for Mesa Air Group....not the least of which was the "Worst CEO" write-in campaign on CNBC was it?

I'm certain that the board is tired of this $#i+. There is NO DOUBT that they know full well that they have to resolve their labor issues if their stock is ever gonna be of any value again. There is no doubt that they are puttiing serious pressure on JO to make this work.

The second factor is the US Airways contract. Parker knows all about Mesa's labor issues and is monitoring this situation very closely. The board (and JO) no doubt realize that they have to get their house in order otherwise they lose their biggest customer and no doubt their company.

I'd submit that these small victories are not the result of a skillful negotiating team or a unified and pissed off pilot group but these other factors.

These issues should be a starting point in the negotiations. Quite frankly, a potted plant could have negotiated these things. If the Mesa pilot group's team has any ability, they should be able to get more.

Now, I'm sitting in the cheap seats here, so take it for what it's worth...but what I say makes sense, and the MAG pilots need to do a better job of taking advantage of the pressure being placed on JO.

 

[Poahi]

...not the least of which was the "Worst CEO" write-in campaign on CNBC was it?

I'm certain that the board is tired of this $#i+.

Like it or not, the board is controlled by J.O. and they support his decisions.

The second factor is the US Airways contract. Parker knows all about Mesa's labor issues and is monitoring this situation very closely. The board (and JO) no doubt realize that they have to get their house in order otherwise they lose their biggest customer and no doubt their company.

Parker is certainly a master of labor relations. His company is about as messed up as Mesa's and almost as likely to be in Chapter 11 this year or next. Also, there is no requirement in the Airways contract that an agreement be in place anytime soon.

... If the Mesa pilot group's team has any ability, they should be able to get more.
... the MAG pilots need to do a better job of taking advantage of the pressure being placed on JO.

Better than what? You don't even know what's been agreed to. Any airline pilot group that has been through a bankruptcy (or a looming one) can tell you what kind of 'pressure' they can put on a company that is unable to pay its obligations.

What do you think they could have gotten that they didn't?

 

[Freight Dog]

JO just might give everything to MAG ALPA that they want, and then take the company into bankruptcy and take it all away again... you'll be right where you started, or worse.

 

[Poahi]

JO just might give everything to MAG ALPA that they want, and then take the company into bankruptcy and take it all away again... you'll be right where you started, or worse.

Bingo...

 

[TOOL CRIB]

Anything positive is a huge win given the current outlook

Isnt that what you guys said last time around?

 

[DoinTime]

JO just might give everything to MAG ALPA that they want, and then take the company into bankruptcy and take it all away again... you'll be right where you started, or worse.

At least they would have a claim in bankruptcy court if they went into it with a contract that was worth something. Both Mesaba and Comair did quite well in bankruptcy payouts. I believe in both cases they got more money out than they had to concede.

 

[Freight Dog]

Our first bankruptcy, we lost our A-plan and took 24% paycuts. The second bankruptcy 2 years after exiting the first one, company shut down.

That's quite an enthusiastic view you have, but it doesn't quite work out like that all the time.

 

[wmuflyguy]

At least they would have a claim in bankruptcy court if they went into it with a contract that was worth something. Both Mesaba and Comair did quite well in bankruptcy payouts. I believe in both cases they got more money out than they had to concede.

Trust me, we didn't do well. I would take our pre-bk contract and give back the bk claim...not to mention bk was an all around crappy experience.

 

[DoinTime]

Our first bankruptcy, we lost our A-plan and took 24% paycuts. The second bankruptcy 2 years after exiting the first one, company shut down.

That's quite an enthusiastic view you have, but it doesn't quite work out like that all the time.

I think you missed the point. The point was that by going into bankruptcy with a more lucrative contract you stand to come out on the other side (assuming you come out) in better shape. Going into bankruptcy with a sh*tty contract only guarantees that you will come out with the same and be no better off for it.

Trust me, we didn't do well. I would take our pre-bk contract and give back the bk claim...not to mention bk was an all around crappy experience.

Weren't you on furlough? Non-active pilots didn't come out so well as they were, to some degree, thrown under the bus. Many XJ pilots came out with more cash in their pockets via the payout than they gave up in pay rate concessions though (only because of the snapbacks though).

 

[crusader 22]

Go get em girls! "Live to fight another day".

 

[wmuflyguy]

Weren't you on furlough? Non-active pilots didn't come out so well as they were, to some degree, thrown under the bus. Many XJ pilots came out with more cash in their pockets via the payout than they gave up in pay rate concessions though (only because of the snapbacks though).

No I was not, we furloughed 120ish pilots and they were all recalled within 90 days, we actually hired throughout the rest of the BK. Everyone got some kinda payout from the BK claim. So I wouldn't called them thrown under the bus.

I know a couple new-hires that got approx 14k (was there less than 6 months) from the payout and they had there 2 week notice in already. So for them, yea I guess they got a pretty good deal.

 

[Ross]

You FI guys/girls are phaakd-up. Majority of you must be under 20yrs old with no life experience. Give the Mesa pilot group a break you idiots. Understand where their contract came from and what they had to sacrifice in order to absorb the Freedom A group back onto the seniority list (few years back).

Your comment unfortunately says more about yourself and your lack of maturity. But don’t worry, the wheel is turning.

 

[sqwkvfr]

Like it or not, the board is controlled by J.O. and they support his decisions.



Parker is certainly a master of labor relations. His company is about as messed up as Mesa's and almost as likely to be in Chapter 11 this year or next. Also, there is no requirement in the Airways contract that an agreement be in place anytime soon.




Better than what? You don't even know what's been agreed to. Any airline pilot group that has been through a bankruptcy (or a looming one) can tell you what kind of 'pressure' they can put on a company that is unable to pay its obligations.

What do you think they could have gotten that they didn't?

1. JO does NOT control the board. This is a simplistic and dismissive viewpoint....not to mention being straight-up incorrect.

Mesa's board owns a whole bunch of stock....stock that has in around a year's time gone from $7 a share to around 50 cents depending on what day it is.....it's gonna be (or is it already) gonna be traded in the pink sheets with other worthless penny stocks sometime soon. JO has lost a whole bunch of their money over really stupid stuff and continues to do so. Do you really think that they continue to just "follow" him?

2. Mesa as gotten some serious bad press in the last 2 years and the board is sick of that as well....so is US Airways, as their name is attached to most of these articles....most of which appear in the "money" section of the Arizona Republic.

3. Parker's problems with his own labor group are in material.

4. There is no requirement that an agreement be in place...that's not what I said. What I said is that US Airways wants Mesa to quit treating their pilots and employees like dirt....they've wanted it for a long time and Parker has made statements to this effect. Since US Airways is Mesa's largest customer and their contract ends in about 2 years, Mesa needs to get it's @#$% together if they want any chance of retaining even a small portion of their current Airways flying.

It sucks having to repeat myself but it's pretty obvious that you really didn't get my point...which is:

Mesa is facing pressures to make their labor relations right....and for once, the majority of the pressure is NOT coming from the pilot group. The Mesa MEC needs to take full advantage of this unique position and make sure that it gets everything that it wants.

This sort of situation most likely will never happen again.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging on the Mesa pilots....I'm sure they're working hard and I hope that they get what they want. God knows they deserve it.

 

[cq43vt17t]

Don't take this the wrong way but.....WTF are you talking about?!?

according to APC Mesa CA payrates on the 900 are higher than Mesaba, and the 200 rates are pretty close. I think they have the right idea as far as looking to improve work rules instead of just looking at hourly payrates.

 

[dooork]

Go get em girls! "Live to fight another day".

ASA got em good. Five years to end up with the same contract offered at the beginning.

 

[777forever]

ASA got em good. Five years to end up with the same contract offered at the beginning.

Are you serious? That sucks if its true. Glad me made a stand for the piloting profession as our sister airline took our 900s...and still has them!

 

[DoinTime]

according to APC Mesa CA payrates on the 900 are higher than Mesaba, and the 200 rates are pretty close. I think they have the right idea as far as looking to improve work rules instead of just looking at hourly payrates.

Equipment = 76 seat configured CRJ-900 or EMB 175
Longevity/Seat = 8 year/captain
As of August 1, 2008

Mesa - $70.35
Mesaba - $72.13
Comair - $72.93
GoJet - $73.35
Skywest - $75.07 (override only)
Pinnacle - $75.07
ASA - $75.25
Compass - $76.19
Republic - $77.08

I can appreciate the need to address the work rules but when you are dead last (by a good margin) in any pay scale comparison you also need to address those as well.

Here is a comparison on the CRJ-200/ERJ-145 using the same 8 year captain.

Mesa - $66.75
Pinnacle - $67.42
Mesaba - $67.70
TSA - $68.00
Comair - $69.89
Skywest - $71.50
Air Wisconsin - $71.70
ASA - $71.97
Republic - $73.41
PSA - $73.65
Eagle - $74.59
Xpress Jet - $75.12

 

[pdub20s]

Equipment = 76 seat configured CRJ-900 or EMB 175
Longevity/Seat = 8 year/captain
As of August 1, 2008

Mesa - $70.35
Mesaba - $72.13
Comair - $72.93
GoJet - $73.35
Skywest - $75.07 (override only)
Pinnacle - $75.07
ASA - $75.25
Compass - $76.19
Republic - $77.08

I can appreciate the need to address the work rules but when you are dead last (by a good margin) in any pay scale comparison you also need to address those as well.

Here is a comparison on the CRJ-200/ERJ-145 using the same 8 year captain.

Mesa - $66.75
Pinnacle - $67.42
Mesaba - $67.70
TSA - $68.00
Comair - $69.89
Skywest - $71.50
Air Wisconsin - $71.70
ASA - $71.97
Republic - $73.41
PSA - $73.65
Eagle - $74.59
Xpress Jet - $75.12

90% of Mesa pilots are at a major by year 7

 

[TristarJS30]

90% of Mesa pilots are at a major by year 7

Is that really a good enough excuse to forget about the top half of the pay scale when negotiating a new contract?

My guess, with oil prices and domestic reductions... there will be plenty of pilots staying past year 7.

 

[DoinTime]

90% of Mesa pilots are at a major by year 7

Lets recompute for third year captain then. You will find that the song remains the same.

76 seat:

Mesa - $60.67
Mesaba - $62.22
Comair - $62.60
GoJet - $63.92
Skywest - $64.84 (override only)
ASA - $64.61
Compass - $65.66
Pinnacle - $65.73
Republic - $66.19

50 seat:

Mesa - $57.68
Mesaba - $58.42
Pinnacle - $58.51
TSA - $58.57
Comair - $60.00
PSA - $61.35
Skywest - $61.75
ASA - $61.80
Air Wisconsin - $62.00
Republic - $63.04
Eagle - $65.00
Xpress Jet - $65.45

 

[Poahi]

1. JO does NOT control the board. ....not to mention being straight-up incorrect.

Mesa's board owns a whole bunch of stock....stock that has in around a year's time gone from $7 a share to around 50 Do you really think that they continue to just "follow" him?

Yes, in fact the board was sooooooo mad at him after the $80 Million Hawaiian judgement, they extended his contract. That will teach him...