Mesa a Step Close to Vote on TA

[pdub20s]

A "Principal Agreement" has been met. This is a step before it turns to a TA. The negotiating committee is drafting final Language and then the agreement will come to. First it must meet the approval of the MEC then to the Pilot Group.

Here are some key points...

*short term 24 month agreement with early opeer

*PBS

*Scheduling Mods with Line Gaurantee

*Block or better

*200% Pay for JA and Volunteer Flying

*Re-assignment restrictions

* "Modest Pay increase"

*Perdiem tied to CPI

*DH pay at 75%

and more to come...

 

[McNugent]

Gee that sounds like a real winner of a contract. Will you get up to 9 days off a month too????

 

[Raoul Duke]

Anything positive is a huge win given the current outlook

 

[zawillif]

Mesa Sucks A$$!!

 

[johnboy99]

Last one out please turn off the lights.

 

[14RF SUX]

Mesa Sucks!

Always wanted to say that.

 

[Jon Rivoli]

Please just put a pillow over the face and pull the trigger.

 

[Soverytired]

Actually, this is better than I expected based on the current outlook for Mesa. The 2 year shelf life on the contract is a good idea.

That said, I hope there's more to this. Focusing on pay above all else is a big mistake at Mesa. Captain pay isn't really that bad, and as upgrades have always been fast and furious at Mesa, FO pay consideration before year 3 should be somewhat downplayed (sorry) . . . increase 1st year pay, certainly, but flatten year 2/3 year pay.

What SHOULD be implemented is QOL items, like:

• Strict language on stand-up overnights (high-speeeds). 2 legs max, minimum of 6 hours between legs, hotel provided for all crew members.
• Increase in 401(k) contribution
• Pay protection for re-assignments for lineholders.
• Min 10 days off for reserve pilots.
• No phone contact by the company except during "on duty time" for reserve pilots. Strictly enforced by, say, $50 pay given to each reserve pilot for EACH time the company successfully contacts a pilot during his off duty time. Make the company have a financial incentive not to bother their employees when off duty.

And so forth. I'm pulling for Mesa guys, but I'm afraid that focusing on pay is a HUGE mistake. It's classic Mesa, I'm afraid, and horribly short sighted.

Best of luck.

 

[pdub20s]

Actually, this is better than I expected based on the current outlook for Mesa. The 2 year shelf life on the contract is a good idea.

That said, I hope there's more to this. Focusing on pay above all else is a big mistake at Mesa. Captain pay isn't really that bad, and as upgrades have always been fast and furious at Mesa, FO pay consideration before year 3 should be somewhat downplayed (sorry) . . . increase 1st year pay, certainly, but flatten year 2/3 year pay.

What SHOULD be implemented is QOL items, like:

• Strict language on stand-up overnights (high-speeeds). 2 legs max, minimum of 6 hours between legs, hotel provided for all crew members.
• Increase in 401(k) contribution
• Pay protection for re-assignments for lineholders.
• Min 10 days off for reserve pilots.
• No phone contact by the company except during "on duty time" for reserve pilots. Strictly enforced by, say, $50 pay given to each reserve pilot for EACH time the company successfully contacts a pilot during his off duty time. Make the company have a financial incentive not to bother their employees when off duty.

And so forth. I'm pulling for Mesa guys, but I'm afraid that focusing on pay is a HUGE mistake. It's classic Mesa, I'm afraid, and horribly short sighted.

Best of luck.

Well there is more to the QOL that I did not list. I only gave a snippet. The negotiating committee did not go into detail in the email. It would be a lot to cover to say the least. I have faith that if the proposal is not good enough, it wont even make it past the MEC vote. Trust me, we will go over the proposal with a fine tooth comb. I have faith the negotiating committee would not hand us a sub par TA this go around.

 

[flyboyike]

I have faith the negotiating committee would not hand us a sub par TA this go around.

Based on what, their previous track record?

 

[pdub20s]

Based on what, their previous track record?

This is a totally new negotiating committee. The MEC has had a big face lift since the last signing. The negotiating committee consist of actual line pilots who have taken the abuse that management has handed down. They know the horrors of a sub standard contract.

 

[dowhite2]

flyboyike,

Their previous track record? Are you speaking of those that negotiated our current contract? Do you really believe this is the same negotiating comittee, or that we are in the same circumstances as we were during the last round of negotiations (Do some research if you have no clue what I'm talking about). Any pilot here at MAG will tell you that they will be voting NO without an increase in min days off.

 

[dowhite2]

pdub u beat me to it

 

[pdub20s]

pdub u beat me to it

Ive come to the realization that no matter how good of a contract we get, these idiots on FI are always gonna have some smug Sh*T to say. Even if we had a "UPS like" contract.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Ive come to the realization that no matter how good of a contract we get, these idiots on FI are always gonna have some smug Sh*T to say. Even if we had a "UPS like" contract.

J.O. and a "UPS like" contract ??!!....

 

[Soverytired]

Ive come to the realization that no matter how good of a contract we get, these idiots on FI are always gonna have some smug Sh*T to say. Even if we had a "UPS like" contract.

Well, it certainly won't be me. Believe me, I've walked WAY more than a mile in Mesa pilot's shoes, and any improvement you get will be well deserved.

That said, I'm concerned that your MEC may simply not have a big enough vision, because for most of them, I suspect Mesa is pretty much all they've known. If (IF!) they're focusing on pay, they're missing the point. Mesa needs to be an enjoyable place to work, and since your management treats you like total crap, that means very specific and inviolate work rules.

Trust me . . . it is so much better on the outside, you won't believe it until you get here. Personally, I'd just throw away the pay rate page of Mesa's contract and look at everything else.

For god's sake, don't be afraid to vote down a sub-par contract. A credible strike threat is the only leverage your CEO understands anyway, and frankly, he doesn't believe your pilot group has the guts.

 

[sweptback]

Given how terrible Mesa's contract is, can anybody really fault them for voting in something that increases their QOL?

I know everybody wants to hold out for the home run, but there's a time and place. If you can get positive gains in an agreement and fix some problems, go for it.

Let's be honest here, if they vote it down, it's probably going to take another 6-12 months before they have anything else to vote on. That would put them halfway through their next contract!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Given how terrible Mesa's contract is, can anybody really fault them for voting in something that increases their QOL?

I know everybody wants to hold out for the home run, but there's a time and place. If you can get positive gains in an agreement and fix some problems, go for it.

Let's be honest here, if they vote it down, it's probably going to take another 6-12 months before they have anything else to vote on. That would put them halfway through their next contract!

.....singing a different tune now Sweptback....that isn't the tough language I heard with us at ASA....

You don't mind our competition undercutting us....but you wanted us to raise the bar......

What happened to the tough talk?

 

[sweptback]

.....singing a different tune now Sweptback....that isn't the tough language I heard with us at ASA....

You don't mind our competition undercutting us....but you wanted us to raise the bar......

What happened to the tough talk?

I agree, and I figured somebody would call me on it. But I'm a realist. There's a time and place.

1. The economy is crap right now. One or two years ago it was a totally different story.

2. Mesa as a company is underperforming. SkyWest was and is making close to $200 million a year. Mesa is nowhere near that, and their existence as a company in a few years is in doubt.

That being said, the Mesa pilot have been dumped on for several years now. This TA will be nowhere close to what they expect, and if they want to hold out for something better, I fully support that.

 

[SELFloadingCRGO]

Given the current state of the entire US airline industry I think even moderate gains in any contract right now would be something short of incredible. I think Soverytired is right, put most of your focus on work rules and such and put pay to the back burner *for now*. The one thing that I'd personally not give way on is the min days off you guys get. You HAVE to get 12 and 10, don't settle for anything less than that.

Just my .02 worth

SLC

 

[PA31Driver]

Well, it certainly won't be me. Believe me, I've walked WAY more than a mile in Mesa pilot's shoes, and any improvement you get will be well deserved.

That said, I'm concerned that your MEC may simply not have a big enough vision, because for most of them, I suspect Mesa is pretty much all they've known. If (IF!) they're focusing on pay, they're missing the point. Mesa needs to be an enjoyable place to work, and since your management treats you like total crap, that means very specific and inviolate work rules.

Trust me . . . it is so much better on the outside, you won't believe it until you get here. Personally, I'd just throw away the pay rate page of Mesa's contract and look at everything else.

For god's sake, don't be afraid to vote down a sub-par contract. A credible strike threat is the only leverage your CEO understands anyway, and frankly, he doesn't believe your pilot group has the guts.

Well, for what it's worth, I did speak to one of the negotiating committee members about the pay issue. They did propose raising 1st year pay but keeping it the same for the rest and also increasing days off especially for reserves. I know I will vote NO if the min days off aren't increased.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree, and I figured somebody would call me on it. But I'm a realist. There's a time and place.

1. The economy is crap right now. One or two years ago it was a totally different story.

2. Mesa as a company is underperforming. SkyWest was and is making close to $200 million a year. Mesa is nowhere near that, and their existence as a company in a few years is in doubt.

That being said, the Mesa pilot have been dumped on for several years now. This TA will be nowhere close to what they expect, and if they want to hold out for something better, I fully support that.

But I thought pilot pay didn't really factor into whether or not you kept flying? You are backpeddling pretty fast.....What really bothers me is you were ready to throw ASA under the bus.....but now you are worried about our low cost competition surviving......

In 2 years these Mesa rates are going to be thrown on our negotiating table......Are you going to have the same tone then?

Unbelievable.......

Don't lecture me about the realities of the industry and the bargaining environment....I was well aware of those issues when you hardliners were still asking for big raises on the 700 and Bfund retirement plans at ASA....

 

[pdub20s]

You guys have to give us MAG guys some credit. Results from the polls taken show that pay rates are at the bottom of the list of priorities. QOL is at the very top. We as a pilot group will not settle for a sub-par QOL. And none of this, "at the companies discretion" junk either. I wish the email sent out tonight touched more on QOL issue. I am not afraid to vote NO.. Even if it takes us "6-12" months to get another TA worked out.

 

[Soverytired]

Actually, given the way most majors are furloughing, you guys might just want to vote down the first contract just as a matter of principle.

Even assuming Mesa survives, most of the current pilots are going to be there for a longer imprisonment . . .er, tenure, than originally planned. Another 6 months at the table with a strike looming over Mesa mngmt's head might get you a far, far better deal.

Your fight though, and a very tough call.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

I wish all you MAG guys the best of luck!! You all have gone through enough crap over the years...time to upgrade!!

Time to make MESA not suck! I'm with you guys 100%...well what 100% I can give y'all!

 

[sweptback]

But I thought pilot pay didn't really factor into whether or not you kept flying? You are backpeddling pretty fast.....What really bothers me is you were ready to throw ASA under the bus.....but now you are worried about our low cost competition surviving......

In 2 years these Mesa rates are going to be thrown on our negotiating table......Are you going to have the same tone then?

Unbelievable.......

Don't lecture me about the realities of the industry and the bargaining environment....I was well aware of those issues when you hardliners were still asking for big raises on the 700 and Bfund retirement plans at ASA....

Mesa could pay their pilots twice as much and still underbid ASA for new flying. Your point?

The bottom line is their fearless leader signed a deal with United that is not profitable, and their only profitable flying with Delta will be going away. You'll probably see them file BK after the Delta debacle is finished unless they get a really good settlement, and at that point it won't matter what kind of contract they have.

 

[Speedtape]

But I thought pilot pay didn't really factor into whether or not you kept flying? You are backpeddling pretty fast.....What really bothers me is you were ready to throw ASA under the bus.....but now you are worried about our low cost competition surviving......

In 2 years these Mesa rates are going to be thrown on our negotiating table......Are you going to have the same tone then?

Unbelievable.......

Don't lecture me about the realities of the industry and the bargaining environment....I was well aware of those issues when you hardliners were still asking for big raises on the 700 and Bfund retirement plans at ASA....

You were once a negotiator, so you should understand the "position" game. Afterall, someone brought us a self-seving "pay for training" program when it was not even on the table at the end--never mind that someone sacrificed pay rates to get it!

 

[Poahi]

You guys have to give us MAG guys some credit. .

I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised the negotiations have made it this far. With Mesa on the brink of bankruptcy, I don't really know what motivation the company has to continue to negotiate, but this is encouraging news. The devil is in the detail and the details haven't been worked out yet, but the effort is certainly commendable.

And we all know the first thing that's going to happen when and if Mesa does file, is that the company will request that labor contracts be set aside.

From what I've heard, I think the big question comes down to the number of days off. Without an improvement there, many of the other improvements won't really matter.

 

[pdub20s]

I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised the negotiations have made it this far. With Mesa on the brink of bankruptcy, I don't really know what motivation the company has to continue to negotiate, but this is encouraging news. The devil is in the detail and the details haven't been worked out yet, but the effort is certainly commendable.

And we all know the first thing that's going to happen when and if Mesa does file, is that the company will request that labor contracts be set aside.

From what I've heard, I think the big question comes down to the number of days off. Without an improvement there, many of the other improvements won't really matter.

The TA wont make it past the MEC if QOL isnt greatly improved.

and Salukipilot.... I met Obama today. Super nice guy

 

[CX880]

I'll believe it when I see it. Just early this year JO was quoted in saying he has one of the highest paid CRJ pilots and that attrition has gone down. If there is anything positive that comes out of this it's because of negative intent, that's the MESA way.