UALPA response to jumpseat threat

[Minimaniac]

Combative attitude? ... pull the Fn letter and we'll talk about this again.

You prove my point so well!

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

D-Bo,

I am posting this so that you may read it one last time:

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All this is asking is that you as a mainline United pilot please contact your MEC to let him/her know that you also believe that this matter needs to be fixed. It's called taking the moral high road. After a year and a half of being civil and getting the runaround from the UALPA MEC and UAL Management, this was the only alternative left. Until the UALPA MEC has UAX's back on this problem it will never be addressed.

You want UAL mainline to cover UAX's back, the same UAX that is growing at 15% while mainline shrinks 17%? I hope that is a rhetorical question.

 

[The Drizzle]

UAX's fault? I'm pretty sure somebody voted that flying away years ago.

 

[Flyerdan]

Huge win for the UAX folks!

Congratulations to the UAX JSC's for a successful campaign.

It seems that the UAX jumpseat campaign is a complete success. I don't see how there can be a UAL or UAX pilot anywhere that hasn't been educated on the unfairness of the current UAL jumpseat priority software.

There is sure to be some continued posturing and probably a few missed commutes initially if a temporary jumpseat war happens. Then both UAL and UAX management will have to do the right thing and fix the problem. After all, we are all on the same team serving the same customers.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You want UAL mainline to cover UAX's back, the same UAX that is growing at 15% while mainline shrinks 17%? I hope that is a rhetorical question.

I believe you were at CMR when the regional pilots at ASA and CMR tried to stop this ubsurd outsourcing by creating a single list.....Which group decided it wasn't worth fighting for?

 

[D-Bo]

D-Bo,

I am posting this so that you may read it one last time:

[/size][/font]

All this is asking is that you as a mainline United pilot please contact your MEC to let him/her know that you also believe that this matter needs to be fixed. It's called taking the moral high road. After a year and a half of being civil and getting the runaround from the UALPA MEC and UAL Management, this was the only alternative left. Until the UALPA MEC has UAX's back on this problem it will never be addressed.

I didn't read anywhere in the letter that says they want us to contact our MEC to get the glitch fixed. If that was the message they were trying to get across they failed.

 

[D-Bo]

You prove my point so well!

You have 8 days.

 

[BoilerUP]

I didn't read anywhere in the letter that says they want us to contact our MEC to get the glitch fixed. If that was the message they were trying to get across they failed.

Check the last paragraph.

On behalf of all UAX pilots, we sincerely hope that we will not be forced to deny any UAL pilot a ride, as we are mindful of the fact that many UAL pilots will be negatively impacted. To that end, we are simply asking that you immediately call or email your MEC to let them know how important your UAX commute is, and to help us all obtain a fair and just resolution. Thank you for your professionalism and active cooperation.

Signed, the pilots of:

Chautauqua Airlines
Colgan Airlines
Go Jets Airlines
Mesa Air Group
Shuttle America
SkyWest Airlines

 

[XPOO]

D-Bo,

Here you go:

To that end, we are simply asking that you immediately call or email your MEC to let them know how important your UAX commute is, and to help us all obtain a fair and just resolution.

 

[WalterSobchak]

High-level reading comprehension is hard...

 

[ATRCA]

I don't understand why the UAL pilots don't have 1st priority on any jumpseat that has UAL code. It seems logical to me that they should be first in line. This is not shaniquas flying, it is UALs thus thier jumpseat.

Get lost. If you don't understand then your not in the business. If you're not in the business then your on the wrong message board. Beat it!

 

[bmpilot2003]

I didn't read anywhere in the letter that says they want us to contact our MEC to get the glitch fixed. If that was the message they were trying to get across they failed.

I can't believe United hired someone who can't read? Unbelievable!

 

[bmpilot2003]

You have 8 days.

You are an extremely sad individual for someone who use to fly for a regional. If that is not the case then you are still a sad individual.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why are the UAL pilots obligated to the UAX pilots to fix UAL's apollo software? Perhaps they are... I just don't have a reference or document or known reason why they should...

 

[D-Bo]

D-Bo,

Here you go:

Thanks for pointing it out. I still don't think that was the correct way to go about it and most of the folks I know that have received a letter are not going to the JSC asking them to fix it but rather pissed off at a tactic aimed at trying to get the commuters to do something that your JSCs have already been briefed on. They're doing nothing but holding our commuters hostage. You guys can argue with me all day and that's fine but if the letter doesn't get pulled and you guys play this out, it won't end up pretty.

The system isn't getting fixed in the next 8 days. But you have 8 days to pull the letter and the threat, and talk about it.

 

[D-Bo]

You are an extremely sad individual for someone who use to fly for a regional. If that is not the case then you are still a sad individual.

What makes me sad? That I won't be taken hostage over something we don't have control over and if we did would cost us money from our already Fd up contract? We've been passive over the last 6 years. Way too passive. Not any more. Tired of having our throats stepped on by management and now UAX. It's not going to work. They should have considered the climate over here before sending the threat.

And yes, I used to fly for the commuters. If you fly for a UAX carrier I may be flying for your commuter before long. If so that changes nothing as far as my opinion on this subject is concerned.

We're trying to save jobs over here and UAX wants to drop this JS BS on us? That's fine. I'm giving you my opinion but would bet money on how this turns out if the letter isn't pulled in 8.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

High-level reading comprehension is hard...

Walter, were you a pilot who became a dispatcher? Or, are the aircraft flown airplanes in your profile the ones you have dispatched, or just the ones you've gone for rides on?

 

[D-Bo]

You are an extremely sad individual for someone who use to fly for a regional. If that is not the case then you are still a sad individual.

I'm sad because I'm pissed off about being taken hostage over something I have no control over and if I did, would cost money from my already horrible contract? If you think that makes me sad then F you.

Yup. Used to fly for the commuters. If you fly for UAX I may be flying for yours before you know it. Won't change my opinion of this situation one bit.

 

[Caspian27]

D-Bo,

Quick question, if UALPA didn't drive this last software change in May that gave TSA/GoJet priority over other UAX on mainline, and mainline priority on TSA/GoJet....who did?

 

[imacdog]

Why are the UAL pilots obligated to the UAX pilots to fix UAL's apollo software? Perhaps they are... I just don't have a reference or document or known reason why they should...

I can understand your line of thinking if you feel that integrity is not required of a professional. More reasonable people believe that holding up your end of a reciprocal agreement is the right thing to do. But what do I know Rez, your ALPA pom poms are bigger than mine.

 

[D-Bo]

D-Bo,

Quick question, if UALPA didn't drive this last software change in May that gave TSA/GoJet priority over other UAX on mainline, and mainline priority on TSA/GoJet....who did?

Sounds like a question for our JSC. Did your JSC ask ours about it? If not maybe they can ask after they pull the letter.

 

[NOZ]

Sounds like a question for our JSC. Did your JSC ask ours about it? If not maybe they can ask after they pull the letter.

UAL JSC would not talk to any UAX JSC about this issue the last 6+ months, basically refusing to even hear anything pertaining to this issue... So, I guess the letter worked in so far as there is a phone conference today. At least, they are talking...

 

[JoeMerchant]

I can understand your line of thinking if you feel that integrity is not required of a professional. More reasonable people believe that holding up your end of a reciprocal agreement is the right thing to do. But what do I know Rez, your ALPA pom poms are bigger than mine.

Rez is also a United pilot now......Hmmmm....

 

[WalterSobchak]

Walter, were you a pilot who became a dispatcher? Or, are the aircraft flown airplanes in your profile the ones you have dispatched, or just the ones you've gone for rides on?

To answer your question, no matter how condescending or rhetorical it may have been, the aircraft listed are ones that I have worked in one aspect or another...either dispatching or back in my ramp-rat days.

Before you opt for the default ramper bashing response, don't take my time as a ramp-rat as any indication of my education level and cognitive abilities...I rock a 134 IQ (and I only mention this because a lot of folks seem to mistake dispatchers for idiots). I just liked the working outside for a change and it lead me to a love of this stupid industry.

As I've stated before, I never had any real desire to be an airline pilot. I can fly...I just don't really wish to make a career of it. Seventy-five percent of the pilots I know are bitter and/or hate their job...and that's just something I'm not into. Not a personal knock on anyone here; I'm just a firm believer that, once you start to hate it, it's time to move on to something else. Besides, I've always been a behind-the-scenes kinda guy...previous career was sound engineering and radio.

I thoroughly enjoy the mental gymnastics that some days require of this profession...juggling multiple traffic management initiatives, keeping an eye out for possible issues and hazards all over the U.S., and the general parsing of a constant stream of information. It is the one of the most thankless gigs in the industry and, most of the time, I prefer it that way (let’s face it, the guy emptying the crapper has THE most thankless gig).

All of that said, I have nothing but respect for the abilities and knowledge required of the pilot profession. I simply ask that you reconsider your condescending attitude and complete lack of respect towards my chosen profession.

 

[The Drizzle]

UAL JSC would not talk to any UAX JSC about this issue the last 6+ months, basically refusing to even hear anything pertaining to this issue... So, I guess the letter worked in so far as there is a phone conference today. At least, they are talking...

Also, when they were talking previously, the JSCs at at least one of the UAX companies was treated with nothing but distain. It was made very clear, that they had no intention of dealing with the lower scum of the earth(UAX) with any parity. Unverified parts of all this is that the UAL MEC was complicit in the creation of this priority. I'm not sure which side is telling their pilots the truth.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I can understand your line of thinking if you feel that integrity is not required of a professional.

Did the UAL pilots or MEC say they'd fix the problem? If so in what capacity?

More reasonable people believe that holding up your end of a reciprocal agreement is the right thing to do.

What does the recip agreement say? Does it say that UAL pilots will use their union resources and money to fix a UAX problem?

But what do I know Rez, your ALPA pom poms are bigger than mine.

Your reply [all above] is rhetorical. Again, I ask.. why are the UAX JSC making the UAL MEC accountable? Again.. I am not saying the UAL MEC is or is not... but it seems that the UAX JSC, while understandably frustrated, unjustifiably threatened the entire UAL pilot group.

Why did the UAX MECs and JSC not work with their managements and UAL management?


Again, the integrity card is very subjective, and in this case integrity is what you want another to adhere to for your own gain....

I would think that if the UAX JSCs had some sort of grievance process, a legal or policy document to reference or even a reciprocal j/s agreement they would have referenced it in their "Letter". But the only leverage they had was the ultimatum: to make life difficult for everyone....

Recall.. jumpseat is a privilege.. it is not a right unless it is negotiated in a CBA.. and if it was... then that CBA is between a labor group and a company. I don't know of any UAX pilot groups that have binding agreements like a CBA with the U-ALPA.

Recall in the past UAX pilots have negotiated pass travel agreements on mainline, only to have UAX management renege because UAX management doesn't control UAL management. Why is this different?

Again.. the only agreement is a j/s agreemnt and if there was teeth in that agreement it would have been referenced in the now infamous UAX Letter.

So again... I ask... why is U-ALPA obligated to fix the problems of UAX pilots?

 

[bmpilot2003]

Sounds like a question for our JSC. Did your JSC ask ours about it? If not maybe they can ask after they pull the letter.

Well i got news for you UALPA pushed for the software change, but didn't tell you guys that in the letter they sent you. Our JSC informed us that there were many INACCURACIES in the letter.....go figure. The UAX JSC have already stated in the if UALPA can FACTUALLY prove that its to costly or the manpower isn't there to fix the problem in a month they would back down.

 

[bmpilot2003]

What makes me sad? That I won't be taken hostage over something we don't have control over and if we did would cost us money from our already Fd up contract? We've been passive over the last 6 years. Way too passive. Not any more. Tired of having our throats stepped on by management and now UAX. It's not going to work. They should have considered the climate over here before sending the threat.

And yes, I used to fly for the commuters. If you fly for a UAX carrier I may be flying for your commuter before long. If so that changes nothing as far as my opinion on this subject is concerned.

We're trying to save jobs over here and UAX wants to drop this JS BS on us? That's fine. I'm giving you my opinion but would bet money on how this turns out if the letter isn't pulled in 8.

You are sad because you are completely ok with UALPA stealing priority of the JS.

Saving jobs..... You are being furloughed right now because the DUSTY OLD MEN that run your union pushed through aged 65. Go talk to them... with out an ultimatum you'll get as far as the UAX carriers did.... NO WHERE.

I don't care what happens in 8 days. All i know is that on 8/1/08 ual pilots won't be riding in the jump seat unless your union can provide FACTS that its either to costly or the manpower isn't there to fix the problem.

By the way sorry to all UAL furloughs goodluck.

 

[bmpilot2003]

D-Bo,

Quick question, if UALPA didn't drive this last software change in May that gave TSA/GoJet priority over other UAX on mainline, and mainline priority on TSA/GoJet....who did?

He doesn't know because he doesn't have any FACTS.

 

[imacdog]

Gee Rez, the UAL pilots are not honoring their portion of their reciprocal jumpseat agreement - it is their company's software, and they are the beneficiaries of the problem. What else are we supposed to say to get it into your thick ALPA cheerleading skull? If you don't think there is a problem because one pilot group is taking advantage of another then it's probably time to hang up the headset because you are completely devoid of integrity and a sense of responsibility to honor agreements.

I'll ask it again even though none of you ego-driven UAL pilots will answer - if the situation were reversed do you think the UAL pilots would allow this software problem to go uncorrected? Honest answers only please.