Nja/nji

[Gruman Fan]

Congrats on forming the in-house shop to all th NJA pilots. I think this will prove to be a very positive move not only now... but for the future of NetJets Pilots as well. Even though I'm basically on the bottom at NJI, I feel more safe at NetJets than anywhere else.

• Now, how long until the side letter is acted upon and NJA/NJI pilot groups merge?
• Will NJI pilots be invited to join the union boards so we can discuss issues in privacy?
• Will the NJI group have a "local council" ?
• Will we have to send in cards to join, or will this be automatic?
• Will we have the right to run for office at the MEC level?
• Will we all get rid of these sorry *ss uniforms and get something more professional/comfortable/rugged?

(last question was more of a whining rant than a question)


Safe Travels...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Congrats on forming the in-house shop to all th NJA pilots. I think this will prove to be a very positive move not only now... but for the future of NetJets Pilots as well. Even though I'm basically on the bottom at NJI, I feel more safe at NetJets than anywhere else.

• Now, how long until the side letter is acted upon and NJA/NJI pilot groups merge?

Six to 18 months

• Will NJI pilots be invited to join the union boards so we can discuss issues in privacy?

Not until the deal is done and we become members of NJASAP

• Will the NJI group have a "local council" ?

No

• Will we have to send in cards to join, or will this be automatic?

No cards but since it is an agency shop, you'll have to decide whether to be a full member and pay dues or a non-member and pay an agency fee. Either way, you're paying the same. Might as well opt for full membership.

• Will we have the right to run for office at the MEC level?

Once you're a member of NJASAP, sure.

• Will we all get rid of these sorry *ss uniforms and get something more professional/comfortable/rugged?

Man, I hope so.

(last question was more of a whining rant than a question)


Safe Travels...

Just my guesses.

 

[captain dad]

I have only been at NJA for about two years and I am a bit naive about past head butting. However, it is my hope that we will be one big company moving in the same direction. I get a sense of pride from NJI people that I have talked to, which is good. Instead of letting ego and elitism drive the "us against them" mentality, we all need to take pride in what, for all intensive purposes, is one company already. The entitlement and the "I'm better than you" pain in the asses, that are few and far between, need to be silenced before they are given traction and drive us apart. The majority of us have flown both big and small iron, and other then a few tricks and different switches, they're all the same.

In short let's get together under NJASAP, play nice, and continue to blow the roof off the joint!

Rock On! Let's Go!

 

[FLYLOW22]

I can't wait to get the I-Guys in the fold over here in consideration for Union leadership.

Fresh perspectives and new ideas are rarely a bad thing.

I am wagering that the integration will be on the order of 6-8 months.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I can't wait to get the I-Guys in the fold over here in consideration for Union leadership.

Fresh perspectives and new ideas are rarely a bad thing.

I am wagering that the integration will be on the order of 6-8 months.

 

[btodd77]

I gotta agree with Flylow.....quite a few NJI guys that I have talked to are excited about the future of one big happy family(even if it might be a little disfunctional).

I would bet somewhere before the busy season in 2009. I don't see it happening until at least the 2nd quarter next year just because of the busy season from thanksgiving to spring break this year. Just my uneducated guess though.

BT

 

[Ultra Grump]

...for all intensive purposes...

Sorry man, gotta say it: it is "intents and purposes."

 

[captain dad]

No, I meant "Intensive".

As in combining form, intensively using or requiring large amounts of energy. Like the large amount of energy that has been used to join NJA and NJI into one "combined form".

"To assume, makes an ASS out of U and ME." :laugh:

 

[CA1900]

[Dr. Evil voice]

Riiiiiiight....

[/Dr. Evil voice]

 

[johnsonrod]

Have you guys seen any NJI FOs bid over to NJA on the Captain side (i.e., GIVSP FO bidding Ultra Capt)? Has that happened yet?

What percentage of NJI FOs will likely stay in the Gulfstream fleet and not jump over to other fleet types? Instead, would those FOs want to move from the GIVSPs to the G450, G550 etc. on the FO side?

Lastly, will NJA pilots be able to bid directly into the G450 and skip the GIVSPs if they have the required seniority or would they go to the GIVSPs first? I would assume they could bid whatever they want if they have the required seniority - right?

 

[captain dad]

Sorry man, gotta say it: it is "intents and purposes."

I should have used quotation marks around intensive or something. You are right that it is "Intents and purposes", at least usually or commonly.

If the flying thing doesn't work out you could always be a grade school grammar teacher. :laugh:

 

[captain dad]

Have you guys seen any NJI FOs bid over to NJA on the Captain side (i.e., GIVSP FO bidding Ultra Capt)? Has that happened yet?

What percentage of NJI FOs will likely stay in the Gulfstream fleet and not jump over to other fleet types? Instead, would those FOs want to move from the GIVSPs to the G450, G550 etc. on the FO side?

Lastly, will NJA pilots be able to bid directly into the G450 and skip the GIVSPs if they have the required seniority or would they go to the GIVSPs first? I would assume they could bid whatever they want if they have the required seniority - right?

The way it stands right now, you have to be at NJA for two years prior to even putting in a bid for NJI and then you must start by going to the GIV as FO to start. I could be wrong but that is how it was explained to me. I will defer to someone with more expertise.

 

[CA1900]

Have you guys seen any NJI FOs bid over to NJA on the Captain side (i.e., GIVSP FO bidding Ultra Capt)? Has that happened yet?

There's no provision that allows that. There's a letter of agreement allowing NJA guys to go over to NJI, but not the other way around. An NJA guy keeps his seniority and has retreat rights back to NJA after his lock is up, bur a straight NJI guy cannot do that.

Hopefully that will all be a moot point soon.

Lastly, will NJA pilots be able to bid directly into the G450 and skip the GIVSPs if they have the required seniority or would they go to the GIVSPs first? I would assume they could bid whatever they want if they have the required seniority - right?

No. The LOA specifically requires all positions in the other Gulfstreams to be filled from pilots who are already in the G-IV. If the company chooses to accept the terms of the LOA and integrate under its terms, then this will still be the case. Seniority will dictate which seat you'll go into, but the aircraft will be the G-IV if you choose to go to the Gulfstream program. There's a 24-month seat lock before you can bid into positions in the other Gulfstreams.

 

[Ultra Grump]

No, I meant "Intensive".

As in combining form, intensively using or requiring large amounts of energy. Like the large amount of energy that has been used to join NJA and NJI into one "combined form".

"To assume, makes an ASS out of U and ME." :laugh:

Whatever dude. Do you actually believe your own BS?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Will we have the right to run for office at the MEC level?

Bwahaa... Been there, done that. I'm way to lazy (and happy) to do it again.

 

[G200_PILOT]

The bottom line is that when the integration happens, we are ALL the same. There won't be any special treatment for anyone. A G-V guy will be treated the same way as a 400XP guy. The rules as they are today at NJA will apply to everyone regardless of what type of an airplane you fly.

Will the current NJI guys have to pay dues? YES

Will they be able to run for "office?" YES

Will they be able to join the private message boards? YES

If you have any more questions about how NJI pilots are going to be treated or what they're going to be able to do, just remember ONE phrase.... SINGLE CARRIER. It means we're all one, under one roof, flying under one contract with one set of rules...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Actually.......

I'm also guessing there will be several letters of agreement in the integration plan regarding how things are run at NJI. For instance, crews volunteering for extended tours to do unusual trips to far flung destinations where crew swaps are A) Difficult B) Impossible, or C) Very expensive. The NJA contract doesn't allow for that sort of thing. NJI also has a separate operations center ancd I expect that to continue: there will have to be provisions for that. I expect us to stay on ONLY a 7-7 schedule with the aforementioned extended trip and overtime policies. Movement between aircraft types will also be covered. There are a dozen other exceptions that I can't think of off the top of my head that would require a slightly different set of rules.

By and large, I think financial issues (overtime rates, sick leave, retirement, disability, etc.) will all be harmonized but there will be some differences for a long time to come.

(Aside to G200: As I pointed out, it's an agency shop so you don't HAVE to pay dues. You can elect to pay an agency fee instead and refuse to join the union. Sadly, there will be those that choose that option. Semantic difference, perhaps, but a difference nonetheless.)

 

[YankeeEcho]

Actually.......

(You can elect to pay an agency fee instead and refuse to join the union. Sadly, there will be those that choose that option. Semantic difference, perhaps, but a difference nonetheless.)

Why do you say 'sadly'?

 

[CE750Driver]

Actually.......

I'm also guessing there will be several letters of agreement in the integration plan regarding how things are run at NJI. For instance, crews volunteering for extended tours to do unusual trips to far flung destinations where crew swaps are A) Difficult B) Impossible, or C) Very expensive. The NJA contract doesn't allow for that sort of thing. NJI also has a separate operations center ancd I expect that to continue: there will have to be provisions for that. I expect us to stay on ONLY a 7-7 schedule with the aforementioned extended trip and overtime policies. Movement between aircraft types will also be covered. There are a dozen other exceptions that I can't think of off the top of my head that would require a slightly different set of rules.

By and large, I think financial issues (overtime rates, sick leave, retirement, disability, etc.) will all be harmonized but there will be some differences for a long time to come.

(Aside to G200: As I pointed out, it's an agency shop so you don't HAVE to pay dues. You can elect to pay an agency fee instead and refuse to join the union. Sadly, there will be those that choose that option. Semantic difference, perhaps, but a difference nonetheless.)

Wrong. NJA does have provisions for extended trips when crew swaps are difficult or impossible. They are bid on by seniority though, no bubba system. Why on earth did you think our contract doesnt cover any issues you face at NJI? Dont our BBJs do the same type of operations as your G's? Or can you explain to me how the NJI operation is different?

 

[CE750Driver]

Why do you say 'sadly'?

Because the union will still be getting the dues from them, only, the union does not have too, and will not defend any of theses guys if something should happen. These pilots will also not be eligible for any union benefits, like medical, or retirement, that is in the works. Sounds sad too me.

 

[RTRHD]

Wrong. NJA does have provisions for extended trips when crew swaps are difficult or impossible. They are bid on by seniority though, no bubba system. Why on earth did you think our contract doesnt cover any issues you face at NJI? Dont our BBJs do the same type of operations as your G's? Or can you explain to me how the NJI operation is different?

Is not the BBJ's under a separate contract and we are only talking about two is that correct? Our trips happen to quick to bid and they go away just as quickly. The bubba system you speak of is only human nature, schedulers make the least amount of phone calls they can to get a yes.

 

[G200_PILOT]

Actually.......

I'm also guessing there will be several letters of agreement in the integration plan regarding how things are run at NJI. For instance, crews volunteering for extended tours to do unusual trips to far flung destinations where crew swaps are A) Difficult B) Impossible, or C) Very expensive. The NJA contract doesn't allow for that sort of thing. NJI also has a separate operations center ancd I expect that to continue: there will have to be provisions for that. I expect us to stay on ONLY a 7-7 schedule with the aforementioned extended trip and overtime policies. Movement between aircraft types will also be covered. There are a dozen other exceptions that I can't think of off the top of my head that would require a slightly different set of rules.

By and large, I think financial issues (overtime rates, sick leave, retirement, disability, etc.) will all be harmonized but there will be some differences for a long time to come.

(Aside to G200: As I pointed out, it's an agency shop so you don't HAVE to pay dues. You can elect to pay an agency fee instead and refuse to join the union. Sadly, there will be those that choose that option. Semantic difference, perhaps, but a difference nonetheless.)

It's called SIFA. That's the system we have in place for extended international duty assignments.

As for you comments about the pay scale and overtime rates...

I am one of the guys here that totally agrees with the way the virtual seniority list is set up. I never quite agreed with the guys who want to staple you guys to the bottom. Believe me, there are quite a few here that would like to see that happen. I'm not one of them. For years, we've been screaming that NJA and NJI are one in the same. If that's the case, I can't see forcing any NJI pilot to eat ******************** at the bottom of the seniority list.

That being said, watch the way you come across when you're talking about how you're going to get paid. The reality is... you're no better than any of us here right now regardless of what kind of airplane you're in. If/when NJA and NJI merge, there will be one payscale and one set of rules. You guys over there that believe you deserve some sort of special treatment are in for a HUGE surprise. I've made it a point to meet as many NJI crews as possible over the past year. 100% of them have been great. They're all open to a great future as one company and I think that's great. Somewhere, however, there's a handful of guys who think they're better than us simply because they sport a cool looking Gulfstream polo shirt. That's simply not going to go over well when they come strutting in to CMH for company indoc training. Just keep that in mind.

 

[captain dad]

Whatever dude. Do you actually believe your own BS?

No. Not really.

But I do get sick of reading yours.

Grow a cense uv hughmore.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I'm sorry, did you write something funny? I must have missed it.

But hey, if intentional ignorance and mediocrity is okay with you, then have at it.

 

[On Your Six]

I'm sorry, did you write something funny? I must have missed it.

But hey, if intentional ignorance and mediocrity is okay with you, then have at it.

Don't worry, most people don't take Capt Dad seriously. Quite the ego, if you know what I mean. Funny that he is slammed by people at his own company - that should tell you something. :laugh:

 

[captain dad]

The way you feel compelled to correct everyone gives you a false sense of superiority or mental prowess which doesn't exist. This is a classic symptom of deep seeded feelings of inadequacy.

I suggest therapy.

Save your insults for someone that cares what you think.

 

[CE750Driver]

Is not the BBJ's under a separate contract and we are only talking about two is that correct? Our trips happen to quick to bid and they go away just as quickly. The bubba system you speak of is only human nature, schedulers make the least amount of phone calls they can to get a yes.

Negative, the BBJ language is in our CBA. Some under an LOA. Yeah, the human nature thing is embedded at NJA also. Sucks. Lots of good guys left out of the loop cause they don't know someone, and it breeds animosity among the group.

 

[CA1900]

This is a classic symptom of deep seeded feelings of inadequacy.

That should be "seated," and you missed the hypen...

<ducking and running>

 

[172driver]

Bwahaa... Been there, done that. I'm way to lazy (and happy) to do it again.

And you did a fine job, I must say, but your hard-nosed style was a little more suited to your (and my) last company than this one. Hopefully the cooperative union/company relations will continue at Netjets. If we ever do go to war though, I'm nominating you

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Or can you explain to me how the NJI operation is different?

You guys might fly a trip to China, what... once a year? We go once a week.

Contrary to popular opinion, operating throughout the far corners of the globe doesn't include TEB and PBI. We have crew planners that work 5 days a week doing nothing but organizing trips throughout the world.

I look forward to working with NJA pilots, and all of you (those that come over) can look forward t working with our NOC... Totally different level of interaction than what you have in CMH.