Thank you ALPA

[MCDU]

Thank you ALPA for your support of age 65. Thanks to another wise decision. Now there will be massive furloughs, downgrades and people losing their quality of life by going back on reserve. Like getting rid of scope and DOH and now age 65. Very shortsighted.

This industry is doomed. Anybody younger then 40 needs to get out and make a real living.We have no leverage thanks to failed unions.


Good luck to all getting furlough notices.

Marty

 

[magrs]

Why any airline would stick with ALPA is beyond me. I am out of the industry (per ALPA), and have actually marvelled how the once and mighty has become the desperate and greedy!

As said before, they have lost all leverage and will continue untilk somebody takes a stand...and the rest follow. Kind of like rate increases, huh?

 

[Taco Rocket]

Are you saying I shouldn't go picket with Prater?

 

[Bringupthebird]

This industry is doomed. Anybody younger then 40 needs to get out and make a real living.We have no leverage thanks to failed unions.
Marty

If ALPA's a failed union, what makes you think their support or rejection would make any difference?

What failed union are you a member of? Ever think of quitting? Give it some thought.

 

[eaglesview]

If ALPA's a failed union, what makes you think their support or rejection would make any difference?

.

If ALPA is a failed union?? Is there any doubt?

 

[Ocity]

If ALPA is a failed union?? Is there any doubt?

Name one "successful" pilot union out there. Just one. Caveat: company fuel hedges don't count as a pilot union success.

Name one.

Everybody likes to piss on ALPA all the while ignoring the RLA and it's indentured servitude level restrictions.

Can't wait to hear.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

AGE 65 was not a RLA issue. It was a SWAPA promotion destroying the standards which had been in effect for over five decades.

Age 65 was the watershed issue which makes ALPA SUCK!

 

[recallsomeday]

Why not send some nice emails to Congressman Jim Oberstar.

He was a bit proponent of this bill, saying we are losing our most experienced pilots, also creating a pilot shortage.

Thank you ALPA for your support of age 65. Thanks to another wise decision. Now there will be massive furloughs, downgrades and people losing their quality of life by going back on reserve. Like getting rid of scope and DOH and now age 65. Very shortsighted.

This industry is doomed. Anybody younger then 40 needs to get out and make a real living.We have no leverage thanks to failed unions.


Good luck to all getting furlough notices.

Marty

 

[eaglesview]

Name one "successful" pilot union out there. Just one. Caveat: company fuel hedges don't count as a pilot union success.

Name one.

Everybody likes to piss on ALPA all the while ignoring the RLA and it's indentured servitude level restrictions.

Can't wait to hear.

Let's see, in my personal career,
EAL strike...failed
Pensions....gone
Age 65
work rules...gone


shall I go on? I think I like many of my piers have earned the right to "piss" on ALPA

 

[magrs]

Let's not forget the complete and utter lack of representation for the TWA Pilots?

The beginning of the end in my opinion!

 

[eaglesview]

Let's not forget the complete and utter lack of representation for the TWA Pilots?

The beginning of the end in my opinion!

Good point, I was just listing things in my career. If we went system wide we could get a real healthy list of ALPA's failings. Though, if you are an RJ pilot I guess ALPA has been a good deal!!

 

[greenbayfan]

ALPA is a club, not a union. It exists to further the careers of the National Officers and a group of ALPA lawyers, not our profession. If ALPA truely cared about our profession, a national seniority list would have been created decades ago to stop the insanity of going back to year 1 pay when going to a new carrier. What other profession takes a paycut to go to make a lateral or upward career move?

Granted we are hamstrung by an antequated RLA, but even with the RLA, ALPA has always taken the path of least resistance. When the choice exists for ALPA to use its resources to fight for what is right for the profession, or settle and save ALPA National dues money, they will ALWAYS talk the MEC members into going the path of least resistance.

God bless the day when ALPA ceases to exist. I applaud US Airways for decerting. Even if they gain nothing by shedding ALPA from a bargaining position, at least they had the stones to tell a useless entity to take a hike!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Good point, I was just listing things in my career. If we went system wide we could get a real healthy list of ALPA's failings. Though, if you are an RJ pilot I guess ALPA has been a good deal!![/quote]

YGTBSM....How do you figure being counted as a second class citizen and having your job used as a bargaining chip at the mainline table is "a good deal"....

 

[Ocity]

Let's see, in my personal career,
EAL strike...failed
Pensions....gone
Age 65
work rules...gone


shall I go on? I think I like many of my piers have earned the right to "piss" on ALPA

All Valid points, including the TWA issue. However, let's be honest with ourselves...

EAL, Does ALPA have the right to physically block Picket line crossing scabs....NO

Pension failures...Talk to Congress and the vulture CEO's who capitalized on BK laws. What power does any pilot union have over BK laws...NONE

Age 65. Congress voted UNANIMOUSLY to pass it. Has everything to do with the PBGC being stuck with Billions of dollars in failed pensions and ZERO to do with the concerns of ALPA or SWAPA. No pilot union had any discernible influence over age 65. The PBGC wanted to force guys to work another five years so they could save on the extra 5 years of payout.

Work Rules: Say hello once again to the Bush Administration and the use of BK laws to gang rape transportation workers. Again, No pilot union has any leverage, legal or otherwise, to stop a business from doing anything in BK. Look up the PBS show "Frontline" regarding UAL. It's educational and disturbing.

TWA was closing their doors. Their CEO said as much on Capitol Hill. Whether it's 100% true or not will never be known and it doesn't matter. With that statement, in front of those people, any leverage ALPA could have had disappeared.

All of this is big business bending the laws to F-over labor. Again, you guys have totally misdirected your anger. Unions have no power because it has been legislated away.

Go ahead and keep pissing on ALPA or whatever union you like. Just stop operating under this delusion that the RLA doesn't exist, Unions are omnipotent, Congress cares about Labor, and BK laws are there to protect the workers.

ALPA and all unions are weak because of the above not because of total incompetence.

You failed to mention a successful pilot union.

WHY???!!!

Because...They don't exist, that's why.

 

[Turtle21]

Good point, I was just listing things in my career. If we went system wide we could get a real healthy list of ALPA's failings. Though, if you are an RJ pilot I guess ALPA has been a good deal!![/quote]

YGTBSM....How do you figure being counted as a second class citizen and having your job used as a bargaining chip at the mainline table is "a good deal"....

Amen. The only good deal in ALPA is the guys on FPL. And the only great deal in ALAP is the National officers. Its a racket.

 

[wscrj]

Ocity...that's one of the most refreshing and depressing posts I've read on this site, ever.

Spot on. Why are we (pilots) so slow to grasp these simple facts?

 

[buckeyes95]

ALPA lost its way years ago. We need a new national union. One with the guts to call a national strike and shut down the system. We have all invested a very large sum of money in our profession. It's time we started to get paid and treated like professionals again.

 

[JohnQ]

Ocity...that's one of the most refreshing and depressing posts I've read on this site, ever.

Spot on. Why are we (pilots) so slow to grasp these simple facts?

Because these simple facts involve accepting that life is not fair, and sometimes there are no easy answers.

It is far easier (and let's admit it, more fun) to just blame ALPA for everything. That way you don't have to accept any sense of responsibility for your environment and you can blame all career shortcomings elsewhere.

It is nothing more than the "slippery slope" logical fallacy, which we all should have studied as undergraduates. This fallacy, often seen in politics, states, if we just do this one thing (vote for my opponent, vote for this bill, confirm this Supreme Court nominee, etc) then this will happen, this will happen, and the whole world will go to hell in a handbasket.

Or, the other side of the same fallacy is, "if we just oust worthless ALPA, then we are cleared direct to the yellow brick road of a perfect change-free career to a golden retirement."

If only it were that easy.

 

[SimHo]

Age 65. Congress voted UNANIMOUSLY to pass it. Has everything to do with the PBGC being stuck with Billions of dollars in failed pensions and ZERO to do with the concerns of ALPA or SWAPA.



WRONG
ALPA had everything to do with the age 65 bill being passed WHEN it did! The bill may have passed sometime in the future but ALPA (Prater and his regime) were the ones who pushed it through now

 

[800Dog]

What have you ALPA bashers done to make ALPA or the profession stronger? Cannot wait to hear! You suggest a new union will make things better. Why not get off your keyboard, attend LEC meetings and promote real change within your current union. My guess, you are too lazy. It is easy to bitch and moan here but it takes real effort to make structural changes to our cause. Refocus your attacks on those who wish for our demise!!