Pinnacle is Going Bye Bye!

[Lear70]

Why are the CRJ-900 pay rates so ********************ty for Pinnacle?

Because they were IMPOSED by PCL management.

Under the terms of the contract, the rate was REQUIRED to be negotiated BEFORE the aircraft could be flown. PCL wanted existing 50-seat rates, the MEC refused, so PCL management just deliberately violated the contract and put them on anyway.

There was a grievance over it, the pilots won and then, just like the Colgan grievance (which the PCL MEC also won), the company just ignored it and is appealing the ruling while continuing to do what they want.

PCL management has always pretty much done whatever they want, regardless of who it affects or how, and will only do the right thing when forced by the legal system.

 

[veneratio]

Because they were IMPOSED by PCL management.

Under the terms of the contract, the rate was REQUIRED to be negotiated BEFORE the aircraft could be flown. PCL wanted existing 50-seat rates, the MEC refused, so PCL management just deliberately violated the contract and put them on anyway.

There was a grievance over it, the pilots won and then, just like the Colgan grievance (which the PCL MEC also won), the company just ignored it and is appealing the ruling while continuing to do what they want.

PCL management has always pretty much done whatever they want, regardless of who it affects or how, and will only do the right thing when forced by the legal system.

Ohh ok, IC... PCL management are a bunch of scub bags!!!

 

[Poahi]

Build them up and tear them down. Anderson is an expert at that.

Delta. Greek for bully.

 

[Raskal]

Build them up and tear them down. Anderson is an expert at that.

Delta. Greek for bully.

Well said. To base it on on-time numbers is even funnier, I'd love to know who can run on time out of that ghetto ATL anyway...even DL's numbers out of there are lower than elsewhere. We'll see, this reeks of a play-the whipsaw is out in full force.

Good luck to the 9E guys that took ATL-I have a friend that's a 900 CA I haven't talked to yet, hope there are options for you guys.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hopefully these 900s are replaced by mainline planes.

Why? What would they be replaced with and what would it pay? These are airplanes just like any other.....it was ALPA/APA that decided some are "mainline" and some are "regional"....

As an ASA MEC insider....you are starting to show your true colors.....To bad that DAL interview didn't work out too well for you.....

 

[DwayneWorthless]

I'm pretty sure these planes are owned by 9E. They're not coming to ASA or SKYW.

Yes, they are owned by 9E
N-number : N162PQAircraft Serial Number : 15162
Aircraft Manufacturer : BOMBARDIER INC
Model : CL600-2D24
Engine Manufacturer : GE
Model : CF34-8C5
Aircraft Year : 2008
Owner Name : PINNACLE AIRLINES INC
Owner Address : 1689 NONCONNAH BLVD STE 111
MEMPHIS, TN, 38132-2111
Type of Owner : Corporation
Registration Date : 01-Feb-2008
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard
Approved Operations : Transport

 

[DwayneWorthless]

Hopefully these 900s are replaced by mainline planes.

Absolutely! We must put higher paid pilots in airplanes these days. Times may be tough for the rest of America, but Legacy pilots must be paid more. They're worth it. Pay your dues.

 

[flyf15]

Yes, they are owned by 9E
N-number : N162PQAircraft Serial Number : 15162
Aircraft Manufacturer : BOMBARDIER INC
Model : CL600-2D24
Engine Manufacturer : GE
Model : CF34-8C5
Aircraft Year : 2008
Owner Name : PINNACLE AIRLINES INC
Owner Address : 1689 NONCONNAH BLVD STE 111
MEMPHIS, TN, 38132-2111
Type of Owner : Corporation
Registration Date : 01-Feb-2008
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard
Approved Operations : Transport

Weird, not Pinnacle Airlines Corp?

 

[PinnacleDude]

Well, ExpressJet have pretty good numbers for Delta and now we can negotiate an even better agreement since CAL dropped all the restrictions...

I think this goes to show that pilot cost is not the biggest factor. Due to Pinnacle's outdated contract, they were cheaper than just about everyone. Guess that didn't matter....

With that said, I would much rather see Comair, ASA, Expressjet (AKA good unionized carrier) get the flying.

 

[Redan]

I thought we already had the shell of the program in place from when we were slated to get the original 900s? What all would have to be done to get the program up and goin? And who owns those 900s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 79%N1
Ding Ding! We have a winner!

Plus, don't you know....Skywest already has a 900 program in place. Starting one at ASA would just be too expensive now!


I know the value of a good rumour as much as anyone. However, my IP friend reports they have been told ASA is going to complete 900 certification in the near future.

 

[WalterSobchak]

What routes did PNCL fly the -900 on?

As far as the whole "Pinnacle own's the -900's" thing goes....sure, but I bet they could sell and transfer those suckers to whoever gets that flying in a heartbeat. All ya gotta change is the "operated by:" decal on the nose.

Look for this flying to go to SkyWest or maybe, just maybe, ASA...

 

[wms]

ASA was building a -900 program until they went to SKYW. When BH got here he got it spooled-up again. If things happen it'll happen fast, and he wants us to be able to move quickly.

 

[boknowsASA]

This is off DLNET:

We have notified Pinnacle Airlines of our election to terminate its Delta Connection contract effective July 31 because of performance. We expect the operational pull down to be orderly and have minimal impact to our customers.
“Our customers rely on Delta and Delta Connection carriers for outstanding service, and we will continue to insist on that level of performance from our business partners,” said Don Bornhorst, s.v.p.-Delta Connection. “Pinnacle’s operational performance has fallen below minimum levels required under the contract. Today, it’s more important than ever that Delta and its Delta Connection partners meet operational and customer service levels.”
We have an agreement with Pinnacle to operate 16 CRJ-900 aircraft, nine of which are in service. We’ll choose another connection carrier to operate the former Pinnacle routes.
Pinnacle has operated as a Delta Connection carrier since December 2007.

 

[boknowsASA]

Taken from DLNET: 9E operated to these locations while in ATL some of them they dont operate to anymore.

BHM,BUF,CLT,CZM,GSP,HOU,HSV,IAD,IAH,MCI,MEM,MKE,PIT,PLS,RIC,SAT,STX,TLH.

 

[CFI2766]

Several thoughts here:

1) Isn't there a paragraph in the ASA (pilot) contract that stipulates that the 70 and the 90 will pay the same?

2) The first (and hopefully last) ASA punk that wears his/her epaulets backwards because they drive 'The 9' should get a solid a$$ whoooopin.

3) Waaay to early to say where this flying will go. If it gets replaced, at all.

4) Most importantly, it's extremely poor form to gloat over another pilot's misfortune. This can, and probably will, be a sandwich that we will all take a bite out of at some point.

 

[USCtrojan]

Several thoughts here:

1) Isn't there a paragraph in the ASA (pilot) contract that stipulates that the 70 and the 90 will pay the same?

2) The first (and hopefully last) ASA punk that wears his/her epaulets backwards because they drive 'The 9' should get a solid a$$ whoooopin.

3) Waaay to early to say where this flying will go. If it gets replaced, at all.

4) Most importantly, it's extremely poor form to gloat over another pilot's misfortune. This can, and probably will, be a sandwich that we will all take a bite out of at some point.

1) The payrates in the Contract set forth are for Aircraft up to 76 seats. So yes, if ASA were to operate 900's then the rates for the 700/900 remain the same.

Trojan

 

[Redan]

What routes did PNCL fly the -900 on?

As far as the whole "Pinnacle own's the -900's" thing goes....sure, but I bet they could sell and transfer those suckers to whoever gets that flying in a heartbeat. All ya gotta change is the "operated by:" decal on the nose.

Look for this flying to go to SkyWest or maybe, just maybe, ASA...

I have to agree. Those aircraft could have their leases transferred so fast it would make you dizzy. Very much like someone assuming someone else's auto lease.

 

[sweptback]

As an ASA MEC insider....you are starting to show your true colors.....To bad that DAL interview didn't work out too well for you.....

It cracks me up that you think you know who I am, but you really have no clue.

 

[PCL_128]

Because they were IMPOSED by PCL management.

Under the terms of the contract, the rate was REQUIRED to be negotiated BEFORE the aircraft could be flown. PCL wanted existing 50-seat rates, the MEC refused, so PCL management just deliberately violated the contract and put them on anyway.

There was a grievance over it, the pilots won and then, just like the Colgan grievance (which the PCL MEC also won), the company just ignored it and is appealing the ruling while continuing to do what they want.

PCL management has always pretty much done whatever they want, regardless of who it affects or how, and will only do the right thing when forced by the legal system.

You're a little off on this one. Yes, Pinnacle management originally imposed rates (only for Captains) on the -900s, but that ended two months ago when the arbitrator issued his ruling on new payrates. The company hasn't violated that ruling. They've been paying the arbitrated rates.

As for why they're so low, they actually aren't. They're industry average.

 

[PCL_128]

Hopefully these 900s are replaced by mainline planes.

Thank God somebody said it.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Thank God somebody said it.

It would be ideal to have those CR9s be replaced by mainline a/c but they will more than likely be swapped out for someones CR2s.

 

[JumpersAway]

There are several issues here that everyone seems to be missing........

Yes, the 900's were bought and purchased by Pinnacle. However, the days of majors buying airplanes and giving them to regionals is over; they are simply too strapped for cash to be buying RJ's. SkyWest Inc. has more money, on hand, than any other airline in the COUNTRY. SkyWest Inc/ASA/SkyWest Airlines has the resources to procure aircraft.

It's doesn't matter if Pinnacle sells the airplanes to another operator or not. The point is it has freed up scope to allocate more 70/76 seat aircraft. Pinnacle can hold onto those airplanes all they want, but there are 16 slots open for another operator to step up to the plate and fill with factory fresh CRJ-900's.

Brad Holt just said a week and a half ago that you have to be in a possition to pounce on growth NOW, not when the opportunity passes. That is why the training department is finishing up a CRJ-900 program, as we speak.

SkyWest Inc. is wanting to streamline their operation for maxim utilization. Ultimately, that leaves SkyWest to cover everything west of the Mississippi, and ASA to cover everything to the east. This is illustrated by the bulk shift in SkyWest flying from ATL back to SLC following the completion of our contract.

In short, ASA has the pilots, has the team, the money, and the numbers to make 900's work out of Atlanta.

If the program isn't comletely in place now, it will be soon, and sooner now. I expect an injunction, the court case, Delta will win, and by the end of 2008, we will be operating the CRJ-900's; Pinnacles' former airframes or new Bombardiers.........

I truly hate this for the Pinnacle pilots- you need and deserve a break. My sincerest hope is that it is a wakeup call for management to treat you with the dignity and respect you deserve. I'm wishing you luck and competant leadership.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Great point. And add to that ASA is operating over 900 flights/day. The highest volume of any other Regional Carrier. I think Comair is next, but I don't have the exact number. RP and SkyW have significantly lower volumes and at least SkyW operates out of an airport for DL (SLC) with I'd guess half or less of the volume ATL has.

Trojan

Comair I thikn is just shy of 700

 

[Poahi]

One thing is for certain: Regional airlines aren't going to sign agreements they don't understand anymore.

They are going to demand tighter language and take a pass when necessary.

 

[DoinTime]

It would be ideal to have those CR9s be replaced by mainline a/c but they will more than likely be swapped out for someones CR2s.

They will probably be used to replace 50-seaters in the PCL NW contract.

 

[snap145]

I'm pretty sure these planes are owned by 9E. They're not coming to ASA or SKYW.

Finnally!...someone who does research before they open theyre mouth and make dramatic Flightinfo comments! Congrats SIU your not an ignorant moron!...9E owns the 900's so you will NEVER see them at SKYW or ASA...NWA scope allows us to fly aircraft up to 76 seats....we just havent had the airframes until now.....dont be surprised to see some of these airframes in red tails as the 9's...(The real 9...the DC-9) go away and as guys flow back to Compass....even with a schedule reduction, the 50 seaters are not profitable....and why not we can fly more people and still pay them 50 seat payrates while ALPA and Uncle Phil continue the redundant negotiations.....nothing is going to happen by July anyways...this is going to be another Freedom story....injunction will be filed....only 9 airframes in ATL = 90 displacements max.....still extremely short staffed here....classes every other week....time will tell........

 

[Lear70]

You're a little off on this one. Yes, Pinnacle management originally imposed rates (only for Captains) on the -900s, but that ended two months ago when the arbitrator issued his ruling on new payrates. The company hasn't violated that ruling. They've been paying the arbitrated rates.

As for why they're so low, they actually aren't. They're industry average.

I hadn't heard that the arbitrator had ruled... I stand corrected.

Last I heard, they were still paying 50 seat rates which IS ridiculously low... for any jet flying... much less the 90-seaters.

What are the new payscales for them? Hadn't seen them posted anywhere but, then again, I don't usually watch the Regionals board. Heard about this through my trigger point for PCL stock (below $4.50 a share).

 

[spudskier]

Several thoughts here:

1) Isn't there a paragraph in the ASA (pilot) contract that stipulates that the 70 and the 90 will pay the same?

2) The first (and hopefully last) ASA punk that wears his/her epaulets backwards because they drive 'The 9' should get a solid a$$ whoooopin.

3) Waaay to early to say where this flying will go. If it gets replaced, at all.

4) Most importantly, it's extremely poor form to gloat over another pilot's misfortune. This can, and probably will, be a sandwich that we will all take a bite out of at some point.

1) Correct
2) I really hope no one at ASA is like that but I'm sure there will be a few 250-hour wonders who get to write home to mommy and brag to their counterparts at other airlines.
3) Delta said they'd be replacing the flying, see previous post and DLnet. Who will replace it remains to be seen although SkyW and ASA are in the best position to do it.
4) Completely agree with you. Do I want to see my airline succeed and my job/QOL get better? You betcha, but I would never hope for a fellow pilot to suffer misfortune. It's a shame that PNCL's mgt wasn't able to manage things correctly if that's the case. I may be secure right now, but g-d knows when that will change rapidly, I hope that a previous post is correct and that PNCL was understaffed to the point that all their pilots will keep their jobs as long as they want.

 

[No.W.]

. SkyWest Inc. has more money, on hand, than any other airline in the COUNTRY. SkyWest Inc/ASA/SkyWest Airlines has the resources to procure aircraft.

Negative.

Southwest airlines has a cash reserve of 2.21 billion or so + the loan for 600 million they took out.(not really sure how that counts as 'cash' but I guess it does).

Either way, SkyWest Inc. has about 600 million in cash on hand the last I heard(and I work here).

Southwest is in WAY better shape then we are.

 

[PCL_128]

I hadn't heard that the arbitrator had ruled... I stand corrected.

Last I heard, they were still paying 50 seat rates which IS ridiculously low... for any jet flying... much less the 90-seaters.

What are the new payscales for them? Hadn't seen them posted anywhere but, then again, I don't usually watch the Regionals board. Heard about this through my trigger point for PCL stock (below $4.50 a share).

The new payscale is on the APC website. It's basically the Skywest scale, only it's a real payscale instead of just a block-hour override.