Teamsters Vs Alpa

[Nevets]

So is Great Lakes. Heck, with that roster of airlines the Teamsters win hands down!

I think that Great Lakes is trying to switch to ALPA.

 

[Nevets]

Have you ever seen the UPS contract for their employees. Pretty darn good.

701EV

Aren't their pilots IPA?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes... UPS pilots are IPA not IBT. The recent two cargo contracts at FX and UPS clearly show ALPA negotiated a better contract. Look at the voting %'s for the contract... UPS pilots passed the contract with 2/3 majority... that is a carefully controlled and manipulated management contract.

The FX contract passed by over 90% pilots in favor. That is a pilot contract.

Has an IBT or in house pilot union ever struck? Pinnacle pilots recently got 2 MIL to fight management. No money... no strike...

 

[trainer8]

No money... no strike...

Does anyone see the elephant standing in the room?

T8

 

[sinkrate]

Have you ever seen the UPS contract for their employees. Pretty darn good.

701EV

UPS pilots are not represented by the Teamsters. The UPS pilots left the Teamsters and formed their own in house union - the IPA. The Teamsters are no longer a member of the AFL-CIO while ALPA still is. As a result ALPA is being forced by the AFL-CIO to reduce the services it provides to the Teamsters.

 

[suupah]

How does being represented by ALPA or Teamsters affect the inevitable seniority integration issues between Colgan and Pinn.?

 

[PCL_128]

How does being represented by ALPA or Teamsters affect the inevitable seniority integration issues between Colgan and Pinn.?

Clarify your question. Do you not want an integration? Would you prefer a huge whipsaw?

 

[Grimper]

First off YOUR union is only as strong as the pilots and the leadership they elect. Second your company will only be as good as management wants it to be. PCL, TSA, and Mesa all suck because that is what management wants. XJT just got there flying with CAL back because they have quality management none of this is a function of ALPA.
If your truly concerned do your own research and decide what type of a central union structure you want to be a part of. I have held leadership roles in both of the unions in question and I can tell you they are very different. Each has its pros and cons.
Do your own homework and don't believe a word you read on this board. If you are a Colgon pilot this is a very important decision.

 

[suupah]

Clarify your question. Do you not want an integration? Would you prefer a huge whipsaw?

I am pretty sure that the Colgan pilots are not interested in either Integration or whipsaw. They are mainly interested in 1. Isolation from the
PNCL Management/Pilot war, PNCL ALPA and pilots and 2. Being left alone to go to work

 

[Nevets]

How does being represented by ALPA or Teamsters affect the inevitable seniority integration issues between Colgan and Pinn.?

Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protection Provisions Sections 3 & 13?

 

[DoinTime]

I am pretty sure that the Colgan pilots are not interested in either Integration or whipsaw. They are mainly interested in 1. Isolation from the
PNCL Management/Pilot war, PNCL ALPA and pilots and 2. Being left alone to go to work

Unfortunately, neither of these two are going to be presentable options and no union will ever be able to make it happen.

The problem with this whole situation is that the true "interests" of the pilots will never be at the forefront of any discussion. If you think ALPA, teamsters, in-house, or no union at all will achieve your ideal situation you are dead wrong.

Some things you can count on are that you will be whipsawed against everyone. Management will only pay you the absolute minimum that either the law, or the market, will allow. Management is not interested in your quality of life. The higher you climb on the longevity scale the more of a liability you become. [Phil Trenary has told new hire classes that he doesn't want to see any of them still around in 3-5 years.] It really is to bad but our "interests" are not at the heart of our executives.

If you think that someday you would like to be a Northwest, Delta, United, Continental, FedEx, or Alaska pilot you must not have any real objection to being a part of ALPA. Why is this such a hard decision?

 

[FlyinScotsman]

The teamsters or ALPA are only as good as the people who volunteer.

I would suggest you look at who ALPA represents and do those airlines align well with your airline- like major with major- or is it a major- regional relationship.

If it is the former than you should go with the teamsters, both have successfully negotiated contracts good and bad, but I don't think ALPA can represent both sides of the same coin. When the chips are down ALPA will throw the regional pilots under the bus every time, example scope that has created the 50 seat RJ mess.

The teamsters will fight for your airline and its pilots. The buiness agents that work for the Local 747 have much airline experience and they have a good track record of representing pilots against certificate action and also job loss.

ALPA good if you fly for a major

Teamsters good if you fly for a regional

 

[JoeMerchant]

Clarify your question. Do you not want an integration? Would you prefer a huge whipsaw?

In 2000, the ASA and CMR pilots tried to stop the whipsaw and force an integration......Egos at DALPA and ALPA decided it was better to have whipsaw than to allow regional lowlife to occupy the same seniority list as the chosen master race.....

Apparantly ALPA and DALPA prefer whipsaw....Ironically they are doing it all over again with the NWA folks......Pass the popcorn.......

 

[PCL_128]

I am pretty sure that the Colgan pilots are not interested in either Integration or whipsaw.

Sorry, but you've got to pick one. If you don't want an integration, then you're going to have to accept a massive whipsaw. If you don't want the massive whipsaw, then you're going to have to work towards an integration. That's just reality.

 

[PCL_128]

In 2000, the ASA and CMR pilots tried to stop the whipsaw and force an integration......Egos at DALPA and ALPA decided it was better to have whipsaw than to allow regional lowlife to occupy the same seniority list as the chosen master race.....

Apparantly ALPA and DALPA prefer whipsaw....Ironically they are doing it all over again with the NWA folks......Pass the popcorn.......

At this rate, I'm firmly convinced that you and I will still be arguing about the 2000 PID 30 years from now. Let it go, John. It's over. In fact, it was over 8 years ago! Time to move on.