Teamsters Vs Alpa

[suupah]

What are the Advantages and/or disadvantages of Teamsters vs ALPA for regional airlines?

 

[Big Foot]

not sure if I know the differences. I know the teamsters in other industries that get the job done. This may be better then ALPA in that sort. And if all fails with the teamsters they have a few of those cement boots laying around. I want those boots on my side.

 

[BirdCatcher]

What are the Advantages and/or disadvantages of Teamsters vs ALPA for regional airlines?

Doesn't matter which one, the strengh of the pilot group is what matters. A union doesn't come in and give you stuff, it provides the pilots the resources to do it themselves.

 

[suupah]

What about in terms fringe bene's like ticket protection, medical recovery, loss of license insurance etc.

 

[pdub20s]

not sure if I know the differences. I know the teamsters in other industries that get the job done. This may be better then ALPA in that sort. And if all fails with the teamsters they have a few of those cement boots laying around. I want those boots on my side.

I agree... But before the cement boots.. its usually the horse head in the bed, dead animal in the mail box, or the occasional death threat.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

What about in terms fringe bene's like ticket protection, medical recovery, loss of license insurance etc.

I have been both and ALPA is much better.

 

[PCL_128]

Doesn't matter which one, the strengh of the pilot group is what matters. A union doesn't come in and give you stuff, it provides the pilots the resources to do it themselves.

It absolutely matters which one. The IBT is woefully ill-equipped to represent air line pilots. They don't have the experienced attorneys, the E & FA department, the Aeromed department, etc...

If you're a truck driver, then you can't do any better than the IBT. If you're an air line pilot, then there's only one real choice: the Air Line Pilots Association.

 

[Afraid to Fly]

What about in terms fringe bene's like ticket protection, medical recovery, loss of license insurance etc.

The IBT contracts with ALPA to provide ticket protection, medical recovery, etc.

The other thing is if Colgan votes in the IBT, ALPA is going to steamroll the Colgan pilots to prove a point which is the stronger union. There is a lot of back door politicing going on between the IBT and ALPA with the Atlas/Polar stuff going on. If ALPA is voted in they are going to be much more willing to make sure the Colgan pilots are protected and show other groups which is the strongest union.

Colgan needs ALPA not the IBT.

 

[suupah]

oh boy this is going to be another polarizing moment in Colgan history!

 

[PCL_128]

The IBT contracts with ALPA to provide ticket protection, medical recovery, etc.

I wouldn't expect that to last much longer. With the antics of the former AAI MEC Chairman becoming the new IBT Airline Division President and trying to raid the union at Atlas, relations between the IBT and ALPA will turn even more sour, IMO.

 

[701EV]

Have you ever seen the UPS contract for their employees. Pretty darn good.

701EV

 

[PCL_128]

Have you ever seen the UPS contract for their employees. Pretty darn good.

701EV

Yes, and the IBT represents truck drivers and package handlers at UPS. That's what the IBT specializes in. Expecting them to represent pilots with the same level of expertise is patently absurd.

 

[dispatchguy]

Just remember - GoJet is Teamsters

 

[AWACoff]

So is Great Lakes. Heck, with that roster of airlines the Teamsters win hands down!

 

[dingo222]

So is Great Lakes. Heck, with that roster of airlines the Teamsters win hands down!

so is horizon and so was netjets when they got the new contract.

 

[suupah]

so is horizon and so was netjets when they got the new contract.

I think that the resolve of the individual MEC and pilot group has more to do with the quality of the contract negotiated than the union. IMHO.

Who takes better care of you when you slide off the runway or lose your medical?

 

[suupah]

Just remember - GoJet is Teamsters

Just remember - MESA is ALPA

 

[701EV]

Representation is representation, no matter whether you drive a truck, load a truck, load a bag or fly a plane. It's not like the IBT have never represented an ailine before

Teamsters are a real union. They are much more powerful than ALPA could ever dream of being.

ALPA is a gentelmans club who f@ck the other gentelman when the have to. The whole mainline RJ cluster is a by product ALPA f@cking up!

701EV

 

[WalterSobchak]

If you're a truck driver, then you can't do any better than the IBT. If you're an air line pilot, then there's only one real choice: the Air Line Pilots Association.

The great thing about typing instead of talking is the fact that you don't have to remove anything from your mouth while typing...right, PCL?

 

[PCL_128]

Representation is representation, no matter whether you drive a truck, load a truck, load a bag or fly a plane. It's not like the IBT have never represented an ailine before

Ridiculous. Would you want the IBEW to represent you? According to you, all representation is the same. I'm sure those electrical workers could do a great job representing air line pilots.

Teamsters are a real union. They are much more powerful than ALPA could ever dream of being.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

ALPA is a gentelmans club who f@ck the other gentelman when the have to. The whole mainline RJ cluster is a by product ALPA f@cking up!

Ah, I see. Another RJDC wanker. That explains it.

 

[SaturnPilot]

suupah,

as you said...the strenght of the individual MEC is really what matters when it comes to getting a good contract. With either choice the pilots of Colgan will be making the decisions for the pilots of Colgan. The benefit of ALPA is the resources given to the MEC and the individual pilots. ALPA will give you access to the Economic & Financial Analysis dept telling you exactly how much Phildo can afford, a legal department with a tremendous amount of experience to advise your MEC on what to do, a lawyer dedicated to your airline to sit at the negotiating table with you, etc.

As far as individual pilots go, you are given countless resources when you need help. ALPA aeromedical is able to assist with any medical questions and has a great record of getting back lost medicals in record time. After sliding off a runway, the orange card gets you an instant lawyer and advise before you even have to talk to anyone. One of the biggest benefits is the financial security with ALPA. When your pilot group gets deep into negotiations, ALPA will provide you with around $2 million in order to set up a strike center, monitor any flights flown on a strike, advertise how much of a large D-bag Trenary is on a billboard, etc.

I do not know as much about what the Teamsters provide, but I have heard that the resources are not as great. If anybody else has a different personal experience with the Teamsters, I will stand corrected.

As we have already seen here, any ALPA v. Teamsters debate is going to have numerous examples of airlines with crappy contracts thrown in. As each airline in either case chooses their own future, I would submit that has nothing to do with the debate. Either way, I think it's great that the Colgan pilots are again looking at representation to stand up to the Buddy f*cker, Phildo, and the rest of the useless cow dung at PNCL Corp.

 

[airjackson]

ALPA is a gentelmans club who f@ck the other gentelman when the have to.

701EV

Just like the IBT f-ing the ALPA represented pilots of Trans States (and in effect, every other pilot group) by organizing the GoJet pilots. Thanks for clearing that up!

ALPA may not be perfect but they blow the doors off of the IBT in every measurable way.

Oh, and F-ck GoJet.

 

[JediNein]

ALPA Aeromedical beats everyone else hands down.

Like Safety, they are the resources you hope to never use, but when you need it, you're damn glad to have it.

 

[WildBlue]

Comparing contracts is a poor way to evaluate the relative merits between choosing the IBT or ALPA. Each has its share of successes and dogs.

I would look carefully at the representation structure of the two and how much say actual line pilots have within each organization. Within the ALPA structure, line pilots make most of the critical decisions affecting your airline. The staff serve as a support group to help. As I understand the IBT, the pilots are represented by a board that is advisory only, while the decisions are made by business agents who are employed by the union. If decisions are made by these staff people that the pilots find unacceptable, I don't think there is anything you can do about it. I have never worked for an IBT group, so check this information carefully, as I am operating on hearsay.

I have had personal experience with services such as ALPA Aeromedical and those are top notch. As far as ALPA staff work in Economic analysis, safety, etc., most of the other airline unions either buy these services from ALPA or defer to them entirely.

Hope this helps.

 

[Airline Driver]

ALPA and Teamsters can both take a flying leap into the Hudson river with cement shoes. Unfortunately they are a necessary evil in our business, but I would rather unionize in house or have my own local.

Either way I would gladly take teamster over ALPA 6 days a week and twice on Sunday!!

 

[DoinTime]

I would look carefully at the representation structure of the two and how much say actual line pilots have within each organization. Within the ALPA structure, line pilots make most of the critical decisions affecting your airline. The staff serve as a support group to help. As I understand the IBT, the pilots are represented by a board that is advisory only, while the decisions are made by business agents who are employed by the union. If decisions are made by these staff people that the pilots find unacceptable, I don't think there is anything you can do about it.

This is a good depiction of what you get from both ALPA and the Teamsters. If you want to be in control of your destiny (for better or for worse) vote ALPA. If you want someone who knows nothing about your Company, the type of operation you run, or who your pilots are vote Teamsters.

Your selfless thoughts on the subject should also include who is fighting for the profession? Who has a voice in international pilot relations? Who is established in development of open skies and other ICAO laws? Who was able to modify age 60 legislation to preserve current contractual rights whether explicit or implied? Who is the champion of CrewPass? Who will likely be your bargaining agent at your next carrier?

The Teamsters don't care about our profession. They are an organization of people who have never walked a day in the shoes of those they represent. If you want to talk about inter-Union scandal, corruption, and controversy...well, the Teamsters invented the game. Their exploits in corruption make ALPA soap box politics seem like a school yard game.

As a Colgan pilot I would be looking for representation that provided for the best possible relationship with my coworkers under PCL corp (cross certificate pilots, dispatchers, schedulers, flight attendants, and ground workers) and best potential outcome for a first, and subsequent, contract. ALPA has 20 years of negotiating history with Pinnacle Corp. The Teamsters have zero.

 

[ReverseSensing]

As I understand the IBT, the pilots are represented by a board that is advisory only, while the decisions are made by business agents who are employed by the union. If decisions are made by these staff people that the pilots find unacceptable, I don't think there is anything you can do about it. I have never worked for an IBT group, so check this information carefully, as I am operating on hearsay.

You were smart to admit that you don't exactly know what you're talking about, because your hearsay information is flawed.

Say what you will about the merits of Teamsters vs. ALPA, but all the checks at Local 747 (Horizon, Republic, and about 12 other carriers) are signed by two people, and one of them is a line pilot at Horizon. I guarantee that makes his role more than just advisory.

EXCOs (line pilots) make decisions for their represented pilots (if they want to) and the Executive Boards of the Locals (line pilots) set policy for the Locals. Business agents and general counsels/presidents and their support staff are just that -- support staff.

The Airline Division and the International are pretty much just a trademark and have very little to do with the day-to-day affairs of Teamster pilots. The value of this overhead is dubious at best, but just like ALPA, the strength of a Teamsters pilot group is at the line pilot level, not the top.

I hate to sound like Rez, but being a Teamsters-affiliated pilot or an ALPA-affiliated pilot doesn't give anyone the right to sit back and expect someone else to do all the heavy-lifting.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

Teamsters Vs Alpa

That's like choosing between Oprah & Rosie O' Donnell.

 

[pilotyip]

I have been in both

I have been both and ALPA is much better.

Both my airlines are out of business

 

[PCL_128]

Both my airlines are out of business

Which has absolutely nothing to do with your former unions.