USAPA letter

[Bad-Andy]

But Andy, why didn't you show them your ALPA pin and Lanyard? Or were you sporting one of those sweet yellow ones....?

Yes, I was sporting the yellow one. I commute on East metal, and found it was a lot easier to just wear the yellow one and not worry about a ride. (Although, I must admit, even after the discussion comes up and I defended ALPA, no one booted me...) Normally I would switch back to my blue one when I commuted in and wear that one while working. But, make no mistake, I don't hide from my decision or my vote, regardless of what color lanyard I wear...

The funny thing about this whole incident is that while it bothered me greatly at first, it may serve a greater purpose -- it made me realize that neither side is absolutely in the right, and both have some serious faults that we'll need to overcome if we want to survive as a company. If I were in your (the West's) shoes, I believe I would just sit back and watch. In the end, you will probably be vindicated (the List will stand), but at what cost?

The phrase "cutting off my nose to spite my face" comes to mind. That's my only point. For all the name calling and insulting I've seen on these boards (and in person in the vans in DFW, BWI, ORD), there are still a lot of good (reasonable) people on both sides of the Mississippi that want to see this place succeed. The handful that want to burn it all down based on one decision or another (Nic List or the USAPA vote) are more alike than they are different. Those are the guys (again, on both sides) that I want to see try and go get another job, especially in this environment. Good luck with that........

 

[Bad-Andy]

This sounds fictional.

Even if its true...which I doubt it is...I can give you examples of East crews giving our guys the middle finger as they taxi by. I can give examples of East crews leaving the West crews at the curb waiting for the hotel vans. I can give you examples of East crews taking West bags off the van and leaving those on the curb. I can give countless examples of East crews giving our guys dirty looks in the terminal.

Trust me, it is not fictional. I wish it was. As for the East crews doing those sorts of things to West crews, I have no doubt that those things are every bit as true. I make no claim that the guys on either side are angels. That is the absurd, idiotic behavior that I was refering to above. We would all be better off without all of those guys (both East and West). My only point is that not all the East guys are "thugs" (as it was put), and neither are all of the West guys innocent "victims." In a civilized world, we deal with problems when they arise as two civilized adults, not as neanderthalic cavemen.

Oh well.... Maybe our next jobs will be better.....

 

[Freight Dog]

Look JT8D... don't use my opinions of ALPA to further your cause of trying to justify that USAPA abortion.

You wanted DOH and DOH alone. You didn't get it; you wanted arbitration. The result didn't come the way you wanted, so you mob-imposed your will upon another pilot group that rescued you from certain doom by using sheer numbers in an attempt to rewrite the seniority list as you see fit.

I may hate ALPA, but to me, what USAPA is doing is equivalent of scabbing which most of us hate way worse than ALPA.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

This whole thing could move forward...even under USAPA...if you would just drop the DOH issue and accept the binding award that you agreed to in the first place.

I know alot of West pilots were not pro ALPA. But all West pilots are not pro USAPA because USAPA's mission statement is to take away our seniority. That's our main concern right now. We'd be willing to participate with and make USAPA a stong viable union if we thought our intrests were being represented.

I can only speak for myself but I have talked to a bunch of our guys and I get the impression that many of the West pilots would be fine with fences. But we are not willing to budge on seniority. The only way seniority will change is if the West pilots agree to change it...and we wont. (And no...USAPA can't just change it because the majority East pilots will vote for it...it doesn't work that way).

When USAPA quits threatening my seniority we'll move forward.

 

[get2flyin]

I may hate ALPA, but to me, what USAPA is doing is equivalent of scabbing which most of us hate way worse than ALPA.

Bingo! We have a winner.

I think you would have been hard pressed to find fanatic ALPA supporters out West before the representation election. In fact, one of my fears if ALPA won the election was they would have mis-interpreted the results and thought they had carte blanche membership support to do whatever they wanted. But given USAPA's goals, ALPA started looking pretty sweet.

 

[Bad-Andy]

When USAPA quits threatening my seniority we'll move forward.

Hopefully that day come sooner, rather than later.....

 

[get2flyin]

Yes, I was sporting the yellow one. I commute on East metal, and found it was a lot easier to just wear the yellow one and not worry about a ride. (Although, I must admit, even after the discussion comes up and I defended ALPA, no one booted me...) Normally I would switch back to my blue one when I commuted in and wear that one while working. But, make no mistake, I don't hide from my decision or my vote, regardless of what color lanyard I wear...

But you do hide from your decision. You wear a yellow lanyard. If you don't believe in either cause...wear a Dallas Cowboys lanyard or something else. I use a piece of thin climbing rope for a lanyard except when I go to Philly. I switch to the ALPA one for that day because I love seeing the USAPA lovers try to intimidate me with stares. It's just all so childish that it's laughable. So that's exactly what I do, laugh at them.

As far a shove in the van, that's not acceptable. PERIOD. I'm not so foolish that I'd say it didn't happen nor am I so fanatic that I'd say it could ever be justified. But you certainly can't say that sort of thing doesn't go in both directions.

 

[MCDU]

Why are you Scabs out west so worried. You still have your flying and no Easthole has taken anything away from you. You still are flying in your bases and your planes. Could it be that this PFT generation at AWA wants the quick upgrade the EAST offers in the coming years with a very old pilot group or is the furlough cushion of almost 1000 pilots?
The scabs out west are going to be allowed what they can hold with their DOH in our East bases. Why don't you all just stop whining and accept what you brought to the table. LAS, PHX and a little over 100 planes.
It must be frustrating not cashing in something that does not belong to you.

By the way, tell one of your Capt. is last name starts with Angel...and then add a vowel, that he is noted for not letting our crew members commute home on the PHL SFO leg about a week ago. Pretty low not allowing some one from getting home. The pathetic lanyard excuse does not come in to play this time. I hope they fire his loser ass for creating a hostile work environment.

I hope they sell off the West to Mesa. Both are a good fit.

Marty

 

[PositiveRate]

Look JT8D... don't use my opinions of ALPA to further your cause of trying to justify that USAPA abortion.

You wanted DOH and DOH alone. You didn't get it; you wanted arbitration. The result didn't come the way you wanted, so you mob-imposed your will upon another pilot group that rescued you from certain doom by using sheer numbers in an attempt to rewrite the seniority list as you see fit.

I may hate ALPA, but to me, what USAPA is doing is equivalent of scabbing which most of us hate way worse than ALPA.

AMEN!!

Yes, I was sporting the yellow one. I commute on East metal, and found it was a lot easier to just wear the yellow one and not worry about a ride.

I take back my thank you for your ALPA vote. So much for standing on principal...all that does is show weakness.

Regardless, the shove is unacceptable, but just to reiterate, this is happening on both sides of the fence with unfortunate regularity and it goes nowhere but bad places.

 

[SaturnPilot]

Why are you Scabs out west so worried. You still have your flying and no Easthole has taken anything away from you.

except your union representation...only to be replaced with a generous THREE committee positions, out of 70+.

The scabs out west are going to be allowed what they can hold with their DOH in our East bases.

I don't know why you're calling them scabs...
Keep on dreaming about DOH. The entire industry never gets tired of hearing it.

Why don't you all just stop whining and accept what you brought to the table. LAS, PHX and a little over 100 planes.

as opposed to the nearly liquidated company you brought to the table.

Another great example of USAPA reaching out to the west