JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
This was in another thread, but I thought it should have it's own thread.....This is why the NWA pilots are justifiably concerned.....
This is a letter from a former Pan Am pilot.....
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 5:31 PM
Subject: one alpa
Gentlemen:
Great Web Site!
I share your frustration.
After reading what you are attempting to do, I thought you might like to hear a little history of the most recent acquisition and seniority list integration.
I am one of the Pan Am pilots who was "acquired" (Delta term) in 1991. I write this email to you as a warning about what can happen in your quest for a combined list. Do not trust Delta. Do not trust ALPA. We call one another brothers at ALPA until it is a choice between you or a mainline Delta pilot...then there is no choice. You will be sold out by ALPA or used by ALPA for the benefit of the Delta mainline pilots. I speak from experience.
In 1991 we (Pan Am) pilots were told by Delta management (Sr VP Flt Opns Captain Harry Alger and Captain Dave Greenberg) that we would be integrated into the seniority list in a "fair and equitable manner". This was Delta's terminology. Alger and Greenberg asked Captain Sheldon, Delta ALPA MEC Chairman to put together a merged seniority list. A committee was formed to investigate the two pilot groups and form a proposed seniority list. At this point I should point out that just one month before this exercise began, when the PanAm acquisition was a done deal, the ALPA executive committee voted to remove language in ALPA's merger policy stating mergers should be accomplished in date of hire! Captain Sheldon was a member of this committee. [N2264J note: The Delta MEC had a member who sat on the Board of Directors and would know months in advance if Delta were planning an acquisition then maneuver to change ALPA merger policy before hand. That happened again at the ALPA BOD in 1998, just a four months before Delta announced the purchased ASA.] The merger committee did it's job and formed a proposed seniority list. The list ratio'd Pan Am pilots into the Delta seniority list which resulted in a loss of seniority of approximately 10 years in the worst case. This seniority list was to be presented to Delta Flight Ops management at the next MEC meeting.
The next MEC meeting was attended by Dave Greenberg and Harry Alger. The proposed seniority list was presented to Alger/Greenberg who did not even look at it. Instead, they threw on the table what they termed the "company list". When the MEC looked at this list Alger/Greenberg presented, they were amazed. The worse case loss of seniority to a Pan Am pilot was over 23 years! Immediately, they recognized Delta wanted this list and would negotiate to get it. When asked what Delta ALPA would get should it accepted this list, Alger/Greenberg responded by offering agency shop agreement and a 2% pay increase. Sheldon and his MEC bought it! It is interesting to note that Delta Flight Ops management stated in prior years that there would never be an agency shop agreement at Delta. Many Western pilots dropped out of ALPA after their merger with Delta because of the seniority list integration. The Delta MEC had to assume the Pan Am pilots would also be upset with the integration. The combination of the two groups and the other non-members represented millions of dollars. The Delta offer solved a major economic and control problem of the Delta MEC. Thus, the Pan Am pilots were sold out for a 2% pay increase and agency shop by our "brothers in ALPA". So much for brotherhood between two ALPA represented major airlines.
The Delta "company list" started integrating the Pan Am pilots into the combined list at approximately the senior man on the 767. Their rational was that we were bringing over aircraft that were similar to the 767 so this is where we should start appearing on the list. If one accepts this rational for integration, then it would also be fair to come up from the bottom to the most junior man on the 727 and integrate all Pan Am airmen into the list between the most senior 767 airman and the most junior 727 airman, since we did not bring any airplane over smaller than a 727 - (Delta had DC-9's). Not so. A ratio was established at 1:11 starting at the 767 senior captain until reaching to co-pilots where it reverted to 1:13 until all airman were inserted into the list. But guess what? Delta ran out of Delta pilots. So what Delta flight operations management did is insert 13 X's into the list after the last Delta pilot then a Pan Am pilot, another 13 X's - a Pan Am pilot until finally all Pan Am pilots were accounted for as follows:
Last Delta Pilot
Pan Am Pilot
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
Pan Am Pilot
x
x
and so on....
As Delta hired new pilots off the street, they replaced each X on the seniority list with that pilot...inserting them senior to the Pan Am pilots. In other words, Pan Am pilots were inserted JUNIOR to pilots who had not even been hired by Delta as of the date of integration. This is what our great and wonderful Delta family calls "fair and equitable".
Perhaps you can now understand why a group of approximately 485 Pan Am pilots formed an organization called PANDA and filed an age discrimination lawsuit in federal court against Delta Air Lines. We have won 3 out of four motions to dismiss the lawsuit. We are awaiting a decision on the last motion...we firmly believe we shall win. If we win this last motion, the case will be tried before a jury in Manhattan. We are asking for date-of-hire, back pay for what we should have been paid vs. what we were paid, retirement medical benefits, and credit for retirement. It is interesting to note, just two weeks before the Pan Am pilots were brought over, Delta management made a decision not to offer any Delta employee retirement medical benefits unless that employee had 10 years service with Delta. Delta management well knew that the majority of the Pan Am pilots were past 50 at the time of acquisition. When the Pan Am pilots retired, they were forced to pay exorbitant medical premiums. ALPA negotiated medical retirement benefits for all pilots in the '96 contract.
Someone said "history repeats itself". Hope this might help your group.
Fraternally,
Name deleted by N2264J
Captain
This is a letter from a former Pan Am pilot.....
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 5:31 PM
Subject: one alpa
Gentlemen:
Great Web Site!
I share your frustration.
After reading what you are attempting to do, I thought you might like to hear a little history of the most recent acquisition and seniority list integration.
I am one of the Pan Am pilots who was "acquired" (Delta term) in 1991. I write this email to you as a warning about what can happen in your quest for a combined list. Do not trust Delta. Do not trust ALPA. We call one another brothers at ALPA until it is a choice between you or a mainline Delta pilot...then there is no choice. You will be sold out by ALPA or used by ALPA for the benefit of the Delta mainline pilots. I speak from experience.
In 1991 we (Pan Am) pilots were told by Delta management (Sr VP Flt Opns Captain Harry Alger and Captain Dave Greenberg) that we would be integrated into the seniority list in a "fair and equitable manner". This was Delta's terminology. Alger and Greenberg asked Captain Sheldon, Delta ALPA MEC Chairman to put together a merged seniority list. A committee was formed to investigate the two pilot groups and form a proposed seniority list. At this point I should point out that just one month before this exercise began, when the PanAm acquisition was a done deal, the ALPA executive committee voted to remove language in ALPA's merger policy stating mergers should be accomplished in date of hire! Captain Sheldon was a member of this committee. [N2264J note: The Delta MEC had a member who sat on the Board of Directors and would know months in advance if Delta were planning an acquisition then maneuver to change ALPA merger policy before hand. That happened again at the ALPA BOD in 1998, just a four months before Delta announced the purchased ASA.] The merger committee did it's job and formed a proposed seniority list. The list ratio'd Pan Am pilots into the Delta seniority list which resulted in a loss of seniority of approximately 10 years in the worst case. This seniority list was to be presented to Delta Flight Ops management at the next MEC meeting.
The next MEC meeting was attended by Dave Greenberg and Harry Alger. The proposed seniority list was presented to Alger/Greenberg who did not even look at it. Instead, they threw on the table what they termed the "company list". When the MEC looked at this list Alger/Greenberg presented, they were amazed. The worse case loss of seniority to a Pan Am pilot was over 23 years! Immediately, they recognized Delta wanted this list and would negotiate to get it. When asked what Delta ALPA would get should it accepted this list, Alger/Greenberg responded by offering agency shop agreement and a 2% pay increase. Sheldon and his MEC bought it! It is interesting to note that Delta Flight Ops management stated in prior years that there would never be an agency shop agreement at Delta. Many Western pilots dropped out of ALPA after their merger with Delta because of the seniority list integration. The Delta MEC had to assume the Pan Am pilots would also be upset with the integration. The combination of the two groups and the other non-members represented millions of dollars. The Delta offer solved a major economic and control problem of the Delta MEC. Thus, the Pan Am pilots were sold out for a 2% pay increase and agency shop by our "brothers in ALPA". So much for brotherhood between two ALPA represented major airlines.
The Delta "company list" started integrating the Pan Am pilots into the combined list at approximately the senior man on the 767. Their rational was that we were bringing over aircraft that were similar to the 767 so this is where we should start appearing on the list. If one accepts this rational for integration, then it would also be fair to come up from the bottom to the most junior man on the 727 and integrate all Pan Am airmen into the list between the most senior 767 airman and the most junior 727 airman, since we did not bring any airplane over smaller than a 727 - (Delta had DC-9's). Not so. A ratio was established at 1:11 starting at the 767 senior captain until reaching to co-pilots where it reverted to 1:13 until all airman were inserted into the list. But guess what? Delta ran out of Delta pilots. So what Delta flight operations management did is insert 13 X's into the list after the last Delta pilot then a Pan Am pilot, another 13 X's - a Pan Am pilot until finally all Pan Am pilots were accounted for as follows:
Last Delta Pilot
Pan Am Pilot
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
x
Pan Am Pilot
x
x
and so on....
As Delta hired new pilots off the street, they replaced each X on the seniority list with that pilot...inserting them senior to the Pan Am pilots. In other words, Pan Am pilots were inserted JUNIOR to pilots who had not even been hired by Delta as of the date of integration. This is what our great and wonderful Delta family calls "fair and equitable".
Perhaps you can now understand why a group of approximately 485 Pan Am pilots formed an organization called PANDA and filed an age discrimination lawsuit in federal court against Delta Air Lines. We have won 3 out of four motions to dismiss the lawsuit. We are awaiting a decision on the last motion...we firmly believe we shall win. If we win this last motion, the case will be tried before a jury in Manhattan. We are asking for date-of-hire, back pay for what we should have been paid vs. what we were paid, retirement medical benefits, and credit for retirement. It is interesting to note, just two weeks before the Pan Am pilots were brought over, Delta management made a decision not to offer any Delta employee retirement medical benefits unless that employee had 10 years service with Delta. Delta management well knew that the majority of the Pan Am pilots were past 50 at the time of acquisition. When the Pan Am pilots retired, they were forced to pay exorbitant medical premiums. ALPA negotiated medical retirement benefits for all pilots in the '96 contract.
Someone said "history repeats itself". Hope this might help your group.
Fraternally,
Name deleted by N2264J
Captain
uke: 
