Reionals fate? Delta/NWA Merger?

[Raskal]

Um, don't forget, these pilot groups are the reason YOU have a job. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

I don't dispute that, however both of the groups (and I want to be clear when I refer to "the groups" I refer to the MECs, not the general pilot body) have shown extremely disappointing behavior during this whole thing. They have taken what could have been a reasonably good chance at building one of the strongest and most unified pilot bodies seen in a long time and turned it into a pathetic and whining pissing match causing more division than many ever thought possible.

The flow-through from XJ to NWA was never all that attractive to me, but it did offer some possibilities. Now, it's all the more reason to go elsewhere when and if the time is right-because it sure as hell won't be to either of our parent carriers.

 

[CptMurf]

Um, don't forget, these pilot groups are the reason YOU have a job. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

I believe this saying works in both directions. You could not fill up a 74 without the SAAB's and CRJ's driving to smaller cities, just like we would not exist if not for the ASA's we have with mainline.

Like Red Green says, "We're all in this together!"

 

[contrail67]

The fleet requirements were a product of prior agreements. The bk contract allows unlimited 50-seaters and 90 51-76 seaters (provided Compass exists) with no regard to the narrow body fleet. There are provisions to increase the number of 51-76 seaters depending on future additions to the narrow body fleet.

I agree that if indeed the Delta guys are hanging the NW guys out to dry with their one sided negotiations with Delta (and it seems like they are) in this consolidation that the DC-9's will get cut (and other undesirable parts of the company) with the stoke of a pen. NW pilots will have little recourse as their company is chopped up without the protections of a combined list.

Just remember...they are renegotiating everything. They might be able to change alot of language too....including scope and who flys what equipment.

 

[Smarta$$]

Just remember...they are renegotiating everything. They might be able to change alot of language too....including scope and who flys what equipment.

Good. Put the jets where they belong. Not to the cheapest contract carrier.

 

[MJ42]

I believe this saying works in both directions. You could not fill up a 74 without the SAAB's and CRJ's driving to smaller cities, just like we would not exist if not for the ASA's we have with mainline.

Like Red Green says, "We're all in this together!"

True, airlines need feed. IMO as well as many others they need the kind of feed circa early 1990's, i.e. turboprops. Kinda like when regionals were used correctly, as "commuters", not like now. Regionals are not regional airlines at all. Now some are technically classified as Nationals and Majors.

Therefore, there are a lot more regional jobs because of relaxed scope. You don't see the 2500 hour flight instructor desperate to find a 19 seat turboprop job like years ago. Yes we are all in this together, but regionals have grown rapidly and your plethora of jobs are around because of (poor) decisions by the guys at the Majors.

Don't get me wrong, I came up through the regional ranks. But I would have gotten to a Major much sooner(even with the state of our industry) if regionals were regional airlines flying regional routes with turboprops.

So...no, it really doesn't work in both directions. There are less Major jobs because of expanding regionals. This hurts all of our career progression.

 

[Simon Says]

Correct, poor past decisions, nevertheless these pilots are still the reason you have a job. quote]

Come on......MJ42. I am not in debt to the NWA pilot group for my job. That is just crazy talk!

 

[Simon Says]

True, airlines need feed. IMO as well as many others they need the kind of feed circa early 1990's, i.e. turboprops. Kinda like when regionals were used correctly, as "commuters", not like now. Regionals are not regional airlines at all. Now some are technically classified as Nationals and Majors.

Therefore, there are a lot more regional jobs because of relaxed scope. You don't see the 2500 hour flight instructor desperate to find a 19 seat turboprop job like years ago. Yes we are all in this together, but regionals have grown rapidly and your plethora of jobs are around because of (poor) decisions by the guys at the Majors.

Don't get me wrong, I came up through the regional ranks. But I would have gotten to a Major much sooner(even with the state of our industry) if regionals were regional airlines flying regional routes with turboprops.

So...no, it really doesn't work in both directions. There are less Major jobs because of expanding regionals. This hurts all of our career progression.

AGREE!!!!!!! We would all be at a major airline quicker if scope was not released years ago, but since it has (and not by my doing) don't tell us regional guys that we owe mainline guys a our jobs.

I say bring anything without a prop on mainline property! You don't have to pay anymore, but we all want one list!

 

[MJ42]

AGREE!!!!!!! We would all be at a major airline quicker if scope was not released years ago, but since it has (and not by my doing) don't tell us regional guys that we owe mainline guys a our jobs.

I say bring anything without a prop on mainline property! You don't have to pay anymoreYES, THEY DO!!! WRONG ATTITUDE FOR IMPROVING OUR PROFESSION just to get a mainline seniority #., but we all want one list!

I never said you "owe" mainline guys for your job, I said there are more regional jobs because of mainline decisions.

 

[MJ42]

Correct, poor past decisions, nevertheless these pilots are still the reason you have a job. quote]

Come on......MJ42. I am not in debt to the NWA pilot group for my job. That is just crazy talk!

Yes, you are. Just like I am in debt to the guys who came before me. When guys start to realize this then this profession will begin to improve. Don't get this confused with my post above.

 

[Simon Says]

I never said you "owe" mainline guys for your job, I said there are more regional jobs because of mainline decisions.

I should of said initially get one list (family scope). Once the cows are coraled then pay can be worked on, but nothing can get done when the cows are grazing outside of the fence.

 

[i fly boxes]

I think that all the regionals who have contracts with Delta and Northwest, their contracts will be honered until they expire. At that point Delta will either sign a new contract with less 50 seaters, or get rid of them. The wholy owneds (mesaba compass comair) will probably be adjusted as Delta wants them, maybe bought off by other regionals who knows? This is going to take a long time to sort out, its not just going to happen overnight. Slowly, we will sadly see the Red Tail fade away, and for a person who has lived in a NWA base their whole life, I have to say thats kind of sad.

 

[Simon Says]

Yes, you are. Just like I am in debt to the guys who came before me. When guys start to realize this then this profession will begin to improve. Don't get this confused with my post above.

Well, different philosophy, but we both pretty much agree on the outcome.

 

[MJ42]

Well, different philosophy, but we both pretty much agree on the outcome.

Yep, hopefully we make it through this downward cycle with no furloughs.

 

[Torpid]

Is this going to be the new west coast hub?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPb4s0-QcI

 

[XJohXJ]

I should of said initially get one list (family scope). Once the cows are coraled then pay can be worked on, but nothing can get done when the cows are grazing outside of the fence.

Yes. ALPA MEC's must WORK TOGETHER, to protect all of our jobs TOGETHER. This is simple stuff, but it seems it is too simple for many pilots to understand:

Unity is strength. This is not just a slogan, but an absolute truth.

Airline managements are extremely proficient experts at another simple war strategy: Divide and conquer.