Canadian regional pay -- prepare to cringe

[ToiletDuck]

It finally dawned on me that the key to living the American dream is to vote, support and vocalize attitudes that go against your own economic interest...Now I get it!!....ugh.

Our own economic interest? Did you read the report I just posted?

Canada is to America as regional is to legacy.

 

[ex j-41]

Government Failure in Canada, 1997-2004: A Survey of Reports from the Auditor General," again by the Fraser Institute, details extensive waste, misrepresentation, red tape, incompetence, program failure, self-service and self-dealing in the Canadian government

Replace Canada above with George W.
It's all the same...

Reganomics is what has gotten to this economic mess that we are in right now.
What we need are higher personal tax for the wealthly and lower taxes for businesses.
Or get Jimmy Carter back in office.

 

[RJP]

Not just the taxes, everything seems more expensive in Canada. The price of beer alone justifies the higher pay.

Did you realize that Molson "Canadian" is actually called Molson "Export" in Canada? Who would've guessed.

 

[ToiletDuck]

Replace Canada above with George W.
It's all the same...

Reganomics is what has gotten to this economic mess that we are in right now.
What we need are higher personal tax for the wealthly and lower taxes for businesses.
Or get Jimmy Carter back in office.

Reganomics is an overall style of governing that works. Say it all you want, pick it apart how you'd like, be a backseat driver, but there's a reason the US is still the largest economy in the world that drives the business force. There's a reason world commodities are traded on WallStreet. We might be in a "recession" but even then our economy is still the strongest in the world. Two things have caused all it's issues over time. #1 is using social security to pay for Vietnam War (Democrats and their 'canada' style of government did this which inturn has caused the health care issues) and other countries who owe us significant amounts of money. Do you have any idea how much money the US send out to other countries each year? From mexico to Kenya money and aid that's paid for is shipped all over the world. The UN uses the US as a bank teller. If everyone paid up the depts owed since WWII the US would be right but the rest of the world would collapse. There's a reason they haven't collected yet. To keep other countries affloat.

 

[PCL_128]

Reganomics is an overall style of governing that works.

Yeah, it works great if you're rich. Not so much is "trickling down" to the little people anymore.

 

[ex j-41]

Did you realize that Molson "Canadian" is actually called Molson "Export" in Canada? Who would've guessed.

Actually they are two different beers.
Molson Canadian
Molson Ex or Export
Molson XXX
Molson Dry and a lot more are brewed by Molson.

http://www.thebeerstore.ca/

 

[ToiletDuck]

Yeah, it works great if you're rich. Not so much is "trickling down" to the little people anymore.

Not just rich. Works better for basically everyone but the poor. A greater majority lives a better life because of it. Sucks for the poor yes, but you can either take care of them or not. I know it sounds cold hearted but that's life. Someone has to pay for it. It's not possible for there not to be poor people no matter how much you'd like it. Someone has to be on the bottom. The US tries to keep that percentage at an acceptable level.

I went to school, held a few jobs while there, paid for all my training and am where I'm at with no help from our government. I'm fully covered for my health care and have a great life in comparison. I don't believe in a handout. I don't believe because someone couldn't use a condom I'm required to pay for their kids. There's a reason I've made the financial decisions I've made. There's a reason I don't have a family. Because I can't afford one yet. If others can't show the same discipline I have why should I be the one that's punished? I'm a hard working, career driven, goal minded American. I don't want to spend a sizable chunk of my money on people who didn't feel like succeeding. Who wanted to get high and be lazy or have sex all they could without thinking of consequences. I've worked for what I have. Why should someone else be entitled to the same things I am? Do I deserve better levels of health care? You bet your ass. If I can only afford the cheap package of cable then I don't expect to get HBO. If I got HBO anyway then where would the incentive be to pay more?

 

[hindsight2020]

Yeah, it works great if you're rich. Not so much is "trickling down" to the little people anymore.

Exactly. ToiletDuck's editorial on reaganomics is a perfect illustration of my point. He/She ain't rich, yet fervorously supports the trickle down theory fundamental to reaganomics even though it does not support him/her, of course this will never be acknowledged; rich people 1 :: own economic interest 0.

The whole premise of reaganomics is flawed in a country such as ours. We live in a highly individualized society. Rich people/corporate entities don't feed the economy constructively, but mainly by consumption. Which is why the middle class is turning into starbucks cashiers and best buy "associates" @ 8/hr..and that ain't euros either. The city where I live constantly touts on the paper "what recession, there's plenty of job vacancies here!"...then you go into the article and it's all service jobs that don't even touch the median individual income, which is already deflated thanks to our current monetary policy. The rest of the capital flows overseas and protected into the Austrian/Cayman coffers. Capital investment, thanks to the do-good concept of globalization is mainly overseas, yeah those are rich americans essentially doing that to you. Reagonomics...it presupposes a certain sense of loyalty that the bourgeoisie class in america does certainly lacks... but you're still free in America to vote against your economic interest, that must count for something...

 

[hindsight2020]

Not just rich. Works better for basically everyone but the poor. A greater majority lives a better life because of it. Sucks for the poor yes, but you can either take care of them or not. I know it sounds cold hearted but that's life. Someone has to pay for it. It's not possible for there not to be poor people no matter how much you'd like it. Someone has to be on the bottom. The US tries to keep that percentage at an acceptable level.

I went to school, held a few jobs while there, paid for all my training and am where I'm at with no help from our government. I'm fully covered for my health care and have a great life in comparison. I don't believe in a handout. I don't believe because someone couldn't use a condom I'm required to pay for their kids. There's a reason I've made the financial decisions I've made. There's a reason I don't have a family. Because I can't afford one yet. If others can't show the same discipline I have why should I be the one that's punished? I'm a hard working, career driven, goal minded American. I don't want to spend a sizable chunk of my money on people who didn't feel like succeeding. Who wanted to get high and be lazy or have sex all they could without thinking of consequences. I've worked for what I have. Why should someone else be entitled to the same things I am? Do I deserve better levels of health care? You bet your ass. If I can only afford the cheap package of cable then I don't expect to get HBO. If I got HBO anyway then where would the incentive be to pay more?

Classic elitist answer. The problem with your agument against having a social clue is that you label poverty as the result of moral choices. In essence, you're poor due to moral flaws (you're lazy, uninterested, generally corrupt). Get off your high horse.

As to the argument of having the need for poor people in a capitalist society, at least you acknowledge that much. The difference is that some of us are OK with raising the bottom at the expense of the cusp of the pyramid, rather than securing the cusp of the pyramid by keeping the bottom low i.e. voting against your economic interest.

As to your sense of hard work, want a cookie? I worked hard too, the problem with your argument is that you put healthcare and premium cable subscriptions in the same category. That just makes you an pseudo-elitist (since you actually are not benefiting from the bourgeousie's wealth, equally). You don't deserve a better level of health care because you're not poor, but since you tie economic status with morality then it makes sense to you to "punish" those sub-human poor people who don't deserve that MRI, or at least are effectively priced out from receiveing one. And here's another flaw with your argument. Your mere definition of "poor" is flawed as heck. You describe the standard project poor person, having kids with no ability to educate them and getting food stamps. Nowhere in your argument do you touch the working poor, i.e. the dwindling middle class. Yeah, those people who share your OWN sense of work ethic and yet have been unable to secure a living wage for their families. Of course you automatically push the morality clause on their poverty too via the "well don't have kids". You're essentially advocating social engineering at this point (only the rich lines will procreate).


As a product of a catholic household I grew quite aware to a fact that seems to have even more relevance today. You're SUPPOSED to not be a f$ck up. That was the standard, you don't get brownie points for it, and I never did. So by that measure I'm not going to start declaring, like you do, that some people just don't deserve "health care of the same quality", which in america essentially translates to no health care at all, just because I went to school and didn't go to jail in the process. Have a better sense of community and put down the reagan biography if you think you are as patriotic as supporting reaganaomics you think makes you. Or better yet, walk over the nearest recruiter and join up and see how that alters the colors on your glasses. But I bet you won't touch those who join up due to economic hardship, that wouldn't work out so well politically for your argument, even though they fit your criteria of morally bankrupt hence poor right? But since they're getting shot for ya, I guess that pardons whatever moral flaws they had that made them poor to begin with right? holes holes holes my friend.

 

[ToiletDuck]

Why should a poor person receive top dollar care? Someone has to pay for it. Those MRI machines you speak of don't pay for themselves and I don't want to pay for someone else to use it. Want the price of healthcare to come down then stop giving it to everyone. 13 million illegals are in my country on my tab. Why should the poor keep breeding and breeding? Why should they have 5+ kids? If they can't afford them they shouldn't have any.

You think starbucks is the way the middle class is going? What are you smoking. That's the lower class. It has to do with an overall increase in education levels over the years. Today we are more educated than 20yrs ago therefore the certain percentage of jobs go to that group. Middle class in america is still booming and their QOL is still increasing.

Do I want a cookie for my hard work? No I just want whats mine and not be forced to give it up to someone else simply because they don't have money. You're talking communism. Let us all be equal! Let the rich pay more and the poor pay less so it brings us all down to the same level!!! Hate to tell you but the jets, boats, homes, showers, cars, TVs, hot tubs, driveways, etc of the rich all provide jobs for others. Why do you think the FED and the gov't are giving the "economic stimulus packages"? Not because they want you to put it into savings but because they want you to spend to keep the wheels rolling. There need to be rich people in an ecomony just like there need to be poor. Fight for the place in line you want to stand in and don't make excuses for where you end up and don't ask for handouts.

Yes I put medical care and cable in the same catagory earlier because it was to drive the point you get what you pay for. If you can't pay for something you don't get it. If Canada loves their healtcare so much they can pay for the poor here. Every arguement you make has been tried by another country and failed misribly. It might suck but as I stated earlier there's a reason we're #1 economicaly. There's a reason we outlasted Russia in the cold war. There's a reason our way of punishing a country is by cutting off money we send to them.

We could pay for more healthcare here if we decided not to give the aid to other countries. So which mouth do you want to take the food from and dont' give me the rich. Whether you can wrap your head around it or not they are as vital to our economy as anyone else.

 

[PCL_128]

Hindsight2020, you're obviously wasting your time with this guy. I wouldn't even bother.

 

[ToiletDuck]

Guess we know who's either Canadian or Democrat. There's a reason the majority of us don't follow those opinions. Show me a single country where your ideas work.

 

[Southbound]

Hard to resist a discussion with someone using bourgeoisie twice in one arguement. We all like free stuff. I love free wireless, free music seems cool, free cable, free lawn mowing when my nephew is bad, free money when a trip gets cancelled at work, free healthcare, free money for doing nothing......Problem is, someone has to pay. Should I pay for your wireless? IPod? Unemployment? Healthcare? Somewhere the line gets gray.

You red's fail to say HOW you will get this utopian world full of Prius driving middle class folks with perfectly 'free' healthcare. Of course a society has the responsibility to take care of it's weak and sick. Individuals need to take care of themselves, their families, their communities. However, they don't need to give the US gov't 50-60 billion to support another gov't agency long on chiefs and short on thought (ie TSA). It just seems easier to 'make the government do it".

With respect to Canada I think we all love the place but their economy vs ours is a stretch, even without the tired social medicine argument. Most of my Canuk friends are hard pressed to like anything about their healthcare system other than it's 'free' status. A few years ago when I used to enjoy conversations like this the vet clinics in Idaho had more MRI machines than BC and Alberta combined. Seriously.

Canada is the 4th largest country in the world and when considering it's water surface it's the 2nd. Canada has something like 32 million people. More than one tenth the size of the US. It is a net EXPORTER of natural resources, soon a net importer of people. "Visible Canadians" as they say are set to become a minority in their own country in a very short time. They are just as pissed about paying taxes as we are. Trouble is they pay more. When is tax free day in Canada....around July? Every nickel you make goes to the man until July? Canadians would love to pay fewer taxes, cut some social spending, trim the way their government healthcare $C is spent. Trouble is, that NEVER happens with government programs. Huge government is hard to defeat and once once you give the mighty Uncle Sam your $$ you will NEVER get it back. Kind of like airline management.....but that's another thread. Hard to really compare US vs CANADA in real terms. Apples to...pears I'd say.

It's great those JAZZ guys make a good living, they deserve to earn more. It is very hard to get hired there. According to my buddy harder than getting his job at Air Canada. Much harder than getting 250-1000tt and going to a regional in the states. Ask the AC guys what they think of WestJet. If Canada had the same population base the US does they'd have just as many GoJet, SkyBus, JetBlue, Mesa, etc places full of pilots willing to fly for seal blubber. However comparing their wages to ours, while fun, is akin to...say blaming Clinton or Bush for the current value of the USD$$

 

[Southbound]

double post

 

[Dumb Pilot]

There is always an excuse as to why we make less than our counterparts in other advanced societies. There is always an excuse as to why our service is substandard compared to other nations full service international airlines. There is always an excuse as to why our maintenance record is substandard compared with other world class international carriers, there is always an excuse as to the ineptitude of our union, our civil aviation regulatory bodies, our airport security. There is always an excuse as to why not to combine seniority lists of carriers working under the same brand. There is always an excuse as to why not to backup the struggles of another union group within our company. There is always an excuse as to why vote more and more flying away from our airline.

We are still the world leaders in this industry at making up excuses