ASA MEC re-elects same officers

[ifly4food]

Also hot off the press, DN, TZ, and SJ were re-elected to another two year term. Disappointing that no fresh blood was considered. I think the status reps will have some competition when they are up for re-election.

 

[sweptback]

Who else ran?

 

[Airboss]

No one else ran from what i can tell...its a thankless job that I personally don't want. I do appreciate their time and effort, and if they want to continue to hold office, i'm all for that!

 

[rightseatjocky]

We had a vote? When did this happen?
oops

 

[Airboss]

My understanding the way it works.
Lets say you want to be the VP of the MEC. You let your CAPT or FO rep know that you want to run. In return they nominate you. In the MEC meeting there is a vote for these positions by your reps.

 

[PCL_128]

We had a vote? When did this happen?

oops

Airboss is correct. The general membership doesn't vote on the three MEC Officer positions. The status reps that make up the MEC vote on these positions. Most MECs will send out an email to let the membership know that elections are coming up at the next MEC meeting, but the membership isn't really directly involved.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Also hot off the press, DN, TZ, and SJ were re-elected to another two year term. Disappointing that no fresh blood was considered. I think the status reps will have some competition when they are up for re-election.

As a recent "insider" turned outside observer, I would say that your "stale blood" has served you extremely well. Just my humble opinion.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yep, agreed.

 

[ifly4food]

As a recent "insider" turned outside observer, I would say that your "stale blood" has served you extremely well. Just my humble opinion.

You mean the new contract? Not everyone is satisfied with it. In fact, it turns out the the money is about all that's good in it as more and more loopholes appear during implementation. It seems like almost everything in the exalted scheduling section boils down to company discretion.

And I heard of several senior pilots who were considering running, but either didn't or weren't given serious consideration. I would have to say it's pretty rare for an MEC to elect an "outsider" to an MEC officer position. Generally, these positions come from within the MEC, or at least "trusted" ALPA insiders like committee chairmen or very dedicated committee members. The last thing an MEC wants is someone who isn't going to toe the party line at the table. "Debate" takes place at MEC meetings, but the outcome of the decision is rarely in doubt. Anyone who leave the room and speaks anything other than the party line is considered a traitor, and treated accordingly.

And the only true duty of the MEC officers is to execute the will of the status reps. They do not make autonomous decisions (per ALPA's C&BLs), contrary to popular opinion. Therefore, the status reps want people who will do what they want, not argue and make their own decisions. So really, I guess it comes as no surprise that they just re-elected the same people.

 

[Texx]

Also hot off the press, DN, TZ, and SJ were re-elected to another two year term. Disappointing that no fresh blood was considered. I think the status reps will have some competition when they are up for re-election.

And your PBS committee is DU, PD and SJ. When the FO reps asked why there wasn't a rep for the FOs on the committee it was stated that there is no negotiations, only fact finding.

I would suggest that at the next LEC meeting the pilot group put forth a motion to require the pilot group to vote on any addition of PBS.

 

[ifly4food]

And your PBS committee is DU, PD and SJ. When the FO reps asked why there wasn't a rep for the FOs on the committee it was stated that there is no negotiations, only fact finding.

I would suggest that at the next LEC meeting the pilot group put forth a motion to require the pilot group to vote on any addition of PBS.

Considering there are no FOs on the MEC, this should come as no surprise. Both FO reps upgraded soon after being elected. Right now, FO interests are unrepresented in the union. FOs also got screwed on the signing bonus. Coincidence?

 

[JoeMerchant]

"Debate" takes place at MEC meetings, but the outcome of the decision is rarely in doubt. Anyone who leave the room and speaks anything other than the party line is considered a traitor, and treated accordingly.

And the only true duty of the MEC officers is to execute the will of the status reps. They do not make autonomous decisions (per ALPA's C&BLs), contrary to popular opinion. Therefore, the status reps want people who will do what they want, not argue and make their own decisions. So really, I guess it comes as no surprise that they just re-elected the same people.

This is true and one of the problems with ALPA.....In fact they teach you this during ALPA leadership training.....remember the USAirways MEC roll playing skit.....Disagree behind closed doors....But never never disagree with ALPA in public.....

This excludes people who aren't the type to tow the party line.....It also gives the membership a flawed view of the "facts" as they usually get a one-sided "official" version of the facts.....

I prefer the type of person who says what they think....not what they're "supposed to think"......even if I disagree with them.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Considering there are no FOs on the MEC, this should come as no surprise. Both FO reps upgraded soon after being elected. Right now, FO interests are unrepresented in the union. FOs also got screwed on the signing bonus. Coincidence?

....and the one that told us "the pilots are stupid"....is leaving soon.....He has no long term vested interest one way or the other.......

 

[ifly4food]

I prefer the type of person who says what they think....not what their "supposed to think"......even if I disagree with them.....

Unfortunately, you are in the minority in that issue too. Speak out too much, and everyone will think you're a big mouth ***********************************. People only want to hear what they want to hear, regardless of what the truth actually is.

 

[ifly4food]

....and the one that told us "the pilots are stupid"....is leaving soon.....He has no long term vested interest one way or the other.......

Good riddance. He's one of the worst Kool-Aid drinkers I've ever seen. He flat out does not care what his constituents think or desire... he does whatever he thinks is best for them. As evidenced by our discussion when he told us he knew the contract would pass, but wouldn't put it out for vote because "pilots are stupid and don't know what's best for them".

 

[JoeMerchant]

Unfortunately, you are in the minority in that issue too. Speak out too much, and everyone will think you're a big mouth ***********************************. People only want to hear what they want to hear, regardless of what the truth actually is.

....proudly in the minority....Don't play nice in the sandbox just to present an "image"....We are big mouths.....Those are the kind of people I want in leadership positions....

What did ya think of the "fee for departure" meeting agenda.....Notice who the speakers were....Notice anything strange about who the speakers were?

.....more of the same........

 

[ifly4food]

....proudly in the minority....Don't play nice in the sandbox just to present an "image"....We are big mouths.....Those are the kind of people I want in leadership positions....

What did ya think of the "fee for departure" meeting agenda.....Notice who the speakers were....Notice anything strange about who the speakers were?

.....more of the same........

I didn't hear the details. But I know that most of those things are nothing but back slapping and kumbaya singing sessions by day and a drink fest by night (on the ALPA expense accounts, of course).

 

[JoeMerchant]

I didn't hear the details. But I know that most of those things are nothing but back slapping and kumbaya singing sessions by day and a drink fest by night.

Speakers were Wychor, Tennen, and Lawson.....

 

[ifly4food]

Speakers were Wychor, Tennen, and Lawson.....

Oh gee whiz. Three of ALPA's biggest "successes". Why not just invite Duane back too? I'm sure someone still owes him a drink.

 

[701EV]

I agree with ifly. It would have been nice to see new blood? I think we need to shake thing up a little. Perception is reality.

701EV

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree with ifly. It would have been nice to see new blood? I think we need to shake thing up a little. Perception is reality.

701EV

Actually I think you would be good......:>)....

 

[Texx]

I agree with ifly. It would have been nice to see new blood? I think we need to shake thing up a little. Perception is reality.

701EV

Patience my friend...patience.

 

[SaturnPilot]

I would have to say it's pretty rare for an MEC to elect an "outsider" to an MEC officer position. Generally, these positions come from within the MEC, or at least "trusted" ALPA insiders like committee chairmen or very dedicated committee members.

I think it's rare for outsiders to get elected to officer positions because an officer position is not a very good place to start out and "learn the ropes". In order to be effective in that position, it helps greatly if you know how things work in ALPA, and how to get things done. That being said, some MECs regularly elect outsiders. This just happened in the last elections at my airline.

The last thing an MEC wants is someone who isn't going to toe the party line at the table. "Debate" takes place at MEC meetings, but the outcome of the decision is rarely in doubt. Anyone who leave the room and speaks anything other than the party line is considered a traitor, and treated accordingly.

speaking against the MEC isn't seen as much as a "traitor", but more just as not an intelligent way of running things. Think about it, if you were to debate in an MEC meeting about how much money you want in negotiations and then go out and publicize to everyone, "well, the ATL reps wanted to hold out for X million with X work rules, but the CVG reps said they would go down to X million if they got X work rules, etc", you have just made management aware of a disagreement on the MEC that they can then attempt to exploit.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Democracy..... ain't it a bitsh........

 

[WWEfan]

This is true and one of the problems with ALPA.....In fact they teach you this during ALPA leadership training.....remember the USAirways MEC roll playing skit.....Disagree behind closed doors....But never never disagree with ALPA in public.....

I actually agree that you should keep your debates behind closed doors.

Dont you remember when Sonny Corleone spoke out at his family's meeting with Sollozzo? His obvious dissension from his father's ideas prompted the whole mob war. If he had kept his thoughts within the family he would have avoided a lot of bloodshed.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

speaking against the MEC isn't seen as much as a "traitor", but more just as not an intelligent way of running things. Think about it, if you were to debate in an MEC meeting about how much money you want in negotiations and then go out and publicize to everyone, "well, the ATL reps wanted to hold out for X million with X work rules, but the CVG reps said they would go down to X million if they got X work rules, etc", you have just made management aware of a disagreement on the MEC that they can then attempt to exploit.

Well said....

The issue here is effectiveness....

Most wonder why ALPA doesn't do more.... they wonder... why ALPA isn't more effective...

Sinply put... on the local, national and international scene... ALPA isn't regulatory.... therefore ALPA must have consensus.....

Yes, we can argue, debate, disagree and even fight..... behind closed doors... but the minute we show a division in public we will simply be out smarted...divide and conquer..... by hired guns like Ford and Harrison, company, gov't, wall street etc...

The problem is most guys don't realize this.... they get elected to ALPA position with good intentions... but when they encounter the slow grinding methodical and extremely fustrating ways of democracy.... they claim ALPA is fubar and an insiders club....

ALPA can do allot to change this mentality.. and so should the pilots.....

 

[ifly4food]

Well said....

The issue here is effectiveness....

Most wonder why ALPA doesn't do more.... they wonder... why ALPA isn't more effective...

Sinply put... on the local, national and international scene... ALPA isn't regulatory.... therefore ALPA must have consensus.....

Yes, we can argue, debate, disagree and even fight..... behind closed doors... but the minute we show a division in public we will simply be out smarted...divide and conquer..... by hired guns like Ford and Harrison, company, gov't, wall street etc...

The problem is most guys don't realize this.... they get elected to ALPA position with good intentions... but when they encounter the slow grinding methodical and extremely fustrating ways of democracy.... they claim ALPA is fubar and an insiders club....

ALPA can do allot to change this mentality.. and so should the pilots.....

I agree that certain things need not become public, and also that unity is important, but more often than not, this is taken to an extreme level to squelch dissension.

Now as for the notion that some get disgruntled and turn against ALPA, perhaps it's more a case of being recruited, and taking a position thinking you can make a difference, only to learn later that those who recruited you wanted nothing more from you than a rubber stamp. And when you refused to do that, they publicly embarrassed you into submission or often "forgot" to notify you about certain functions.

And if you believe that ALPA (or any other organization of its caliber) isn't an insiders club, you're fooling yourself. ALPA is NOT a democracy!

 

[ifly4food]

I actually agree that you should keep your debates behind closed doors.

Dont you remember when Sonny Corleone spoke out at his family's meeting with Sollozzo? His obvious dissension from his father's ideas prompted the whole mob war. If he had kept his thoughts within the family he would have avoided a lot of bloodshed.

You do realize that The Godfather is a trite Hollywood dramatization that resembles real mob life very little, right? Tony Soprano cracking skulls because they ratted him out is much more realistic.

 

[SaturnPilot]

Now as for the notion that some get disgruntled and turn against ALPA, perhaps it's more a case of being recruited, and taking a position thinking you can make a difference, only to learn later that those who recruited you want nothing more from you than a rubber stamp. As was my experience.

And if you believe that ALPA (or any other organization of its caliber) isn't an insiders club, you're fooling yourself. ALPA is NOT a democracy!

I can understand frustration in the experience you mentioned above. I had some of the same issues when I started volunteering, but as time goes on and new people get elected, the dynamics can change. If you get elected and nobody agrees with you and you can't get anything done, as long as you stay true to your principles, you can easily effect change when new members get elected who may share your views.

 

[ifly4food]

I can understand frustration in the experience you mentioned above. I had some of the same issues when I started volunteering, but as time goes on and new people get elected, the dynamics can change. If you get elected and nobody agrees with you and you can't get anything done, as long as you stay true to your principles, you can easily effect change when new members get elected who may share your views.

Or so I thought. What actually happened is that I was succeeded by lap dogs who gave them the rubber stamp they were looking for. Then they labeled those of us who tried to blow the whistle on what was really happening with the contract as traitors and publicly humiliated us.