The big vote. Any guesses?

[PCL_128]

Another crybaby falls by the wayside.

 

[ultrarunner]

Whatever the vote, the award by the mediator will stand.

 

[SaturnPilot]

From:Richard P.
Sent:Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To:'Jack S.
Cc:'....

Subject:Fin

Dear Jack: Please accept this resignation of my position of Captain Representative for Council
32. After much deep soul searching during the past few days, I have come to the conclusion that ALPA as
well as the MEC is broken beyond repair.

simply brilliant..."My MEC, which includes myself, is broken...As a voting member of the MEC, I have substantial power to fix the problems on my council, as long as I can convince a majority of the other voting members I am right...however, instead of fixing these problems, I am resigning my position."

In my 33 years in ALPA, I have been on several committees, paid many assessments, fought the
People Express war,walked Eastern picket lines and TWA F/A lines. I also picketed the White House
when Bond was threatening to jail us for violations. This is not the same ALPA. ALPA used to have men
of honor. Now it’s all secret mini-meetings in someone’s room, power tripsand backstabbing.

unbelievable insight...how about telling us what the specific problems are, so that the guy who is elected to serve out the remainder of the term that you abandoned knows what he should try to fix.

When the true talent begins to leave one by one, seemingly a different one every day, as well
as the taking out of nearly irreplaceable committee members simply so you can put your hopelessly
clueless friend in the position strains credibility. I cannot represent my pilots in such a poisonous
atmosphere. An atmosphere where even the man who ran against me in Boston has resigned all his
positions.

Plato -
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."

 

[PCL_128]

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[JoeMerchant]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/05/isnt_it_ironic_.html


Read the comments after the article.....The second to last comment is very interesting.....

 

[PCL_128]

Not really. Disgruntled former employee (if he's even legit).

 

[AV80R]

Another crybaby falls by the wayside.

PCL - you seem to be very pro ALPA - have you thought about bringing ALPA to AirTran?

I bet most of the NPA pilots wouldn't want that. Am I wrong?

 

[SaturnPilot]

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2006/05/isnt_it_ironic_.html


Read the comments after the article.....The second to last comment is very interesting.....

I agree...the guy above who resigned was on the BOD and he could have actually tried to fix these problems...instead he quit.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree...the guy above who resigned was on the BOD and he could have actually tried to fix these problems...instead he quit.

....there are many former BOD members who have given up on ALPA....it is beyond repair.....

The USAPA, RJDC, and other groups are largely made up of former ALPA leaders who have seen things from the inside.....

ALPA won't change until it's very existance is threatened....and that time is coming.......:beer:

 

[PCL_128]

PCL - you seem to be very pro ALPA - have you thought about bringing ALPA to AirTran?

I bet most of the NPA pilots wouldn't want that. Am I wrong?

Hopefully there will be a vote someday so we can find out.

 

[SaturnPilot]

....there are many former BOD members who have given up on ALPA....it is beyond repair.....

The USAPA, RJDC, and other groups are largely made up of former ALPA leaders who have seen things from the inside.....

ALPA won't change until it's very existance is threatened....and that time is coming.......:beer:

had the "many BOD members" you just mentioned NOT resigned from the highest governing body in the association, they possibly could have held a voting block large enough to effect the change that needed to be made to ALPA to fix what needs to be fixed.

You say ALPA won't change until it's existance is threatened. I guess that's because the people in power who want to change it and have the ability to keep quitting.

Specifically, what is broken beyond repair in ALPA? You have said you don't like the politics on the BOD, so how should ALPA be structured to eliminate those politics?

I don't see any solutions what-so-ever being brought up here.

 

[AV80R]

Hopefully there will be a vote someday so we can find out.

During my almost 2 year long tenure at AirTran (which I greatly enjoyed btw) I think I might have ran into 4 or 5 pilots there who were pro-Alpa. I think most pilots’ perception was that just about any union was better than Alpa. I tend to agree.

 

[PCL_128]

During my almost 2 year long tenure at AirTran (which I greatly enjoyed btw) I think I might have ran into 4 or 5 pilots there who were pro-Alpa. I think most pilots’ perception was that just about any union was better than Alpa. I tend to agree.

It seems that the opinions of many have changed after the TA debacle last year. You weren't here to witness that mess.

 

[AV80R]

It seems that the opinions of many have changed after the TA debacle last year. You weren't here to witness that mess.

Very true. I still have many friends there through - so far not one has become pro-alpa. Well, maybe one, flyfast - are you for alpa now?

 

[Bringupthebird]

From:Richard P.
Sent:Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:59 PM
To:'Jack S.
Cc:'....

Subject:Fin

Dear Jack: Please accept this resignation of my position of Captain Representative for Council...

My take is that the rats who were using ALPA resources to gin up USAPA have been found out and are leaving in droves. It wouldn't take too much clairvoyance to predict the BOS, DCA and LGA locals to be placed in trusteeship next.

I have no doubt that there are sufficient pilots with integrity that will replace the traitors and serve the US Airways pilots. The vote will bear that out.

 

[charlie2]

unbelievable insight...how about telling us what the specific problems are, so that the guy who is elected to serve out the remainder of the term that you abandoned knows what he should try to fix.

During the past few months of flying the E190 I have heard my 20+ year captains say many, many specific problems with ALPA. Being a late 99 hire I don't share their history with ALPA but I do have my own specific reason to vote to decertify. I was not at MDA but I think it is criminal that ALPA wont help those pilots who were clearly ACTVE US Airways pilots (at least in the eyes of the IRS, FAA and whoever stopped their furlough pay) but were considered furloughed by Nic and were stapled. I have three or four more specific reasons but this one alone would do it for me!

 

[Bringupthebird]

How many aircraft types currently at USAirways are some pilots restricted from bidding? If you can't even bid it, how can you say it's part of your airline and how can the pilots that do fly it be considered on your seniority list?

 

[charlie2]

Ya.. it really was a crappy deal for them. I guess you agree with my post that they were paid by US Airways to fly jets owned by US Airways and they stopped getting furlough pay from US Airways...because they were NOT furloughed anymore. But lets not waste any more time 'cause it is in a judges hands now.

 

[dugan jones]

yeah on the side of the MDA planes it said, "Operated by US Airways"......now how do you say they weren't part of US Airways??? Maybe Nic couldn't read huh?

 

[SaturnPilot]

During the past few months of flying the E190 I have heard my 20+ year captains say many, many specific problems with ALPA. Being a late 99 hire I don't share their history with ALPA but I do have my own specific reason to vote to decertify. I was not at MDA but I think it is criminal that ALPA wont help those pilots who were clearly ACTVE US Airways pilots (at least in the eyes of the IRS, FAA and whoever stopped their furlough pay) but were considered furloughed by Nic and were stapled. I have three or four more specific reasons but this one alone would do it for me!

ALPA did not staple the MDA pilots. The neutral arbitrator is the one who decided MDA pilots were to be stapled. ALPA national stayed well clear of your seniority dispute and let you and the Westies settle it yourselves.

This, along with almost every East decertify argument I have heard, is misplaced blame...and I'm willing to bet that the many specific problems with ALPA that you have heard from these 20+ year captains are actually problems with the AAA MEC, or Nic, etc, not ALPA.

Look at it this way, if you were to go through the same seniority integration today with USAPA, instead of ALPA, your east representatives would have brought a seniority list with the MDA pilots on it just like the AAA MEC did...when the intergration goes to arbitration, Nic is still going to rule the same even though you are USAPA, because in his opinion, MDA pilots were furloughed. Different union logos, but same EXACT outcome.

 

[charlie2]

Never said ALPA caused this. One of the important functions of a union is to protect the members from injustices and I believe this is an injustice. The cause of this injustice is irrelevant to me. The lack of ALPA recognizing this as an injustice is why I am voting for decert.

 

[Hpilot]

Never said ALPA caused this. One of the important functions of a union is to protect the members from injustices and I believe this is an injustice. The cause of this injustice is irrelevant to me. The lack of ALPA recognizing this as an injustice is why I am voting for decert.

Why do you think ALPA didn't touch it. Could it be because it's binding arbitration. Remember that MC Hammer song "can't touch this". Gee that could be a reason. Do you really think any judge is going to touch binding arbitration unless there is proof of foul play. The fact is you guys wanted DOH with furloughs included and that is unfair. Even without taking into account we were the aquiring airline and you guys were less than a month from closing the doors, it's nutz.

 

[charlie2]

I personally never wanted DOH...big mistake by US Airways ALPA...nutha reason to decert!

 

[SaturnPilot]

Never said ALPA caused this. One of the important functions of a union is to protect the members from injustices and I believe this is an injustice. The cause of this injustice is irrelevant to me. The lack of ALPA recognizing this as an injustice is why I am voting for decert.

I understand that a union is to protect its members from injustice, but ALPA has no legal means to overturn the binding arbitration award that was handed down. You are upset at ALPA for not changing what it has no power to change.

 

[SaturnPilot]

I personally never wanted DOH...big mistake by US Airways ALPA...nutha reason to decert!

this is the core issue with East pilots who want to vote for USAPA. They don't understand the difference between ALPA and a bunch of US Airways pilots on a US Airways MEC. What you are referring to above is US Airways pilots making their own decision to push for DOH, not ALPA. All you are attempting to accomplish by trying to decert is have more US Airways pilots pushing for DOH...the same exact thing.

Quit blaming ALPA for your own fellow pilots' mistakes

 

[charlie2]

I am blaming our pilots who are ALPA reps AND national. If your saying that ALPA national had no power at all to help right the MDA issue then I don't need 'em.

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA National doesn't get involved in seniority integration disputes. They simply can't, because then people like you would allege favoritism to one side or the other. That's why ALPA has an Admin Manual with specific merger policies that guide the process in an orderly manner. The reps that you elected screwed you over with their DOH obsession. You want to blame someone? Blame them. ALPA National had nothing to do with it, nor should they.

 

[charlie2]

I'll say again I blame our pilots who let this happen. I'm talking very specifically about furlough status. Are you furloughed?

 

[SaturnPilot]

I am blaming our pilots who are ALPA reps AND national. If your saying that ALPA national had no power at all to help right the MDA issue then I don't need 'em.

ok, then recall those reps...no need to overthrow the union because you disagree with the reps. I don't know why you are blaming national for your individual reps deciding to push for DOH. I can guarantee you that national didn't have anything to do with that.

Your reps are elected solely by your pilots. The only thing "ALPA" about your reps is the logo on the door. All USAPA is trying to do is change the logo...it will still be your reps making your decisions.

Yes I'm saying that National doesn't have the power to change the Nic award and help the MDA pilots...neither does USAPA, or anyone else. The award is never going to be changed no matter who represents you.

 

[charlie2]

It will be interesting to see the result of the lawsuit concerning the MDA furlough status issue. I'm just saying that if any pilot on this board were not furloughed and were treated as if they were, they would fight it, binding arbitration or not. I would bet a good sum right now that they will prevail...meaning they had the power to change that part of the Nic award.