ASA FAs about to sell out on PBS

[ifly4food]

AFA at ASA is about to sign onto PBS. They sent a letter to all FAs telling them how great PBS is and how they'll all be able to hold the same schedule they currently hold.

Apparently the company offered AFA "everything they were asking for" in exchange for PBS, and the AFA Chairwoman (JB) and CNC fell over themselves to take the bait.

I wonder how this will affect us when we "meet and confer" on PBS?

Discuss...

 

[crjskipper]

it wasnt like this wasnt expected to come. pbs will come but maybe now the fa's will hammer out the bugs. they still have to honor our work rules, and there will be some kind of 'gain' for it.

i wouldnt call it sell out, if they are happy with it then so be it, most of the airline world uses it, i dont see how it could make our delta schedule any worse

 

[USCtrojan]

AFA at ASA is about to sign onto PBS. They sent a letter to all FAs telling them how great PBS is and how they'll all be able to hold the same schedule they currently hold.

Apparently the company offered AFA "everything they were asking for" in exchange for PBS, and the AFA Chairwoman (JB) and CNC fell over themselves to take the bait.

I wonder how this will affect us when we "meet and confer" on PBS?

Discuss...

Good for the FA's. If they got everything they wanted, anyways. It still will NOT affect the pilots. All that's stated in OUR Contract is that we will DISCUSS it. That's it. If the FA's, Dispatchers or whoever else want to sign off on it, that's their prerogative. We still don't have to get it, it will be up to the Company to sell it well. I for one will not even look at it unless the parameters set in it are favorable to Pilots.

Trojan

 

[CFI2766]

I believe that PBS is coming, regardless of whether the FA's want or get it. Sure, it's discussed at length in the new pilot contract. However, if the pilot group is put in a position where they have to choose between PBS and new flying, or, worse, to keep existing flying, welll, that's a done deal.

Recognizing the probability of PBS coming, it would make sense for the pilot group to take the lead on the topic. Let's go out and get the PBS that works for the pilot group, not the cheapest one that only works to 'enhance the efficiency' of the pilot group. In exchange for PBS, we should then get something that we want.

 

[WWEfan]

The company's primary issue for the next contract is PBS. Will they get it? Maybe. Everything is negotiable. I just hope they pay dearly for it.

 

[coorsFlight]

Discuss...

I LIKE YOUR STYLE

TRICK QUESTION DITKA IS GOD!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

SKYW is the cheeapest out there, they jammed an untried, untested PBS into the pilots butz. It still does not work that well, 2+ years later. The top 10% pretty much get what they want, everyone else gets left overs. Don't do it for any reason, no matter what is promised. SKYWs version has no transparency and you seniority is/will be chit.
PBR

 

[JoeMerchant]

My thoughts on PBS.....

1. It isn't a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN and WHAT IN RETURN....This is a window of opportunity to address the scope issue....

2. PBS does solve the issue of integration....No more integration...

3. PBS does hurt those of us who enjoy turning one week of vacation into 3 weeks......

4. Based on what it does to vacation, I am not a fan of PBS.....However in the current environment I am more than willing to leverage it for the even more pressing issue of job security.....

 

[johnpeace]

I'm new here, what is PBS?

 

[USCtrojan]

I'm new here, what is PBS?

Preferential Bidding system as opposed to a hard line system we have now in place at ASA. It is way too complicated to go into details about PBS. I don't know too much about it, so hopefully somebody else can provide better insight?

Trojan

 

[JustaNumber]

I'm new here, what is PBS?

Public Broadcasting System. The company is trying to get us to listen to more NPR so we can be more edumacated.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'm new here, what is PBS?

It is basically a computer program that tailor builds you a line based on your "preferences" rather than crew planning building lines that you then bid on.

With either system, the most important element is efficent trips....Without efficient trips, neither system will produce a "good" line.

Conflicts with training, vacation, and integration are elliminated as the computer builds your line around these known conflicts.....thus management gains a cost benefit by needing fewer reserves...

Pilots can gain by being able to tailor build a line if their seniority can support it. Pilots lose the ability to "game" the system and extend vacation....

Most carriers use PBS now....

 

[SkyNation]

Pros:

-allows you to be very specific (telling it I want to fly this pairing on this day, but something different next week)
-allow you to bid specific days off
-allows you to be general (I want 2 days that start after noon and finish by 2 PM, for example)

of course the efficacy of these things will be dictated by by your seniority, the variety of pairings available, and you ability to use the program correctly and effectively

Cons:

-the vacation issue, as noted above
-if you fly out of a small domicile and/or there is little variety in pairings, it's not much and may be worse than hard lines

I would think that with such a large domicile in ATL, the large majority of your pilots would, after a 'breaking in' period, see PBS as a benefit because of the flexibility it provides.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Public Broadcasting System. The company is trying to get us to listen to more NPR so we can be more edumacated.

You're not allowed to be a white liberal in this country without loving "This American Life". Careful, it grows on you.

 

[ifly4food]

I LIKE YOUR STYLE

TRICK QUESTION DITKA IS GOD!

Is 'dat mini Ditka or is Ditka full size?

 

[ifly4food]

Getting back to PBS, I agree it's coming. We pilots need to make sure it happens on our terms. What concerns me is that now AFA is going to do it and will get to pick the software and set the precedent. Once that's in place, it will be hard for us to demand a switch if we don't like it.

Also, I think the FAs are being sold fool's gold by their leadership. The chairwoman is the #1 FA, and almost all of her friends are in the top 10-20. Only one person in AFA leadership has been here less than 10 years. PBS benefits the senior at the expense of the junior. Of course AFA leadership thinks its a good thing!

Question is, do the mid level and junior FAs really know what they're getting themselves into? And how will their precedent affect us when we finally agree to it?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Getting back to PBS, I agree it's coming. We pilots need to make sure it happens on our terms. What concerns me is that now AFA is going to do it and will get to pick the software and set the precedent. Once that's in place, it will be hard for us to demand a switch if we don't like it.

Also, I think the FAs are being sold fool's gold by their leadership. The chairwoman is the #1 FA, and almost all of her friends are in the top 10-20. Only one person in AFA leadership has been here less than 10 years. PBS benefits the senior at the expense of the junior. Of course AFA leadership thinks its a good thing!

Question is, do the mid level and junior FAs really know what they're getting themselves into? And how will their precedent affect us when we finally agree to it?

I agree with you that we don't want AFA blazing the trail for us......But in all fairness I wanted our MEC to use it as a chip in our section 6 negotiations.....We didn't and now we will have to suffer any consequences that result.....

If you want our MEC to have more of a say.....then maybe they should get in there and start the negotiations per the side letter.....I'm afraid we have less leverage now then we did during section 6 however.....There are windows of opportunity and sometimes the next window is smaller than the previous one.......

 

[Jmoney]

No Idea.....

it wasnt like this wasnt expected to come. pbs will come but maybe now the fa's will hammer out the bugs. they still have to honor our work rules, and there will be some kind of 'gain' for it.

i wouldnt call it sell out, if they are happy with it then so be it, most of the airline world uses it, i dont see how it could make our delta schedule any worse

-Skipper-

Not to bash you personally, but in truth you have NO IDEA what you are talking about!!!!

The problem with PBS is that it is largely up to the company-they can make it sorta good or very bad.... Given our experiences here, I think we all know how ASA mgmt. will choose.

I have a few friends at other places that use PBS and they ALL, and I do stress ALL hate it with a passion!! These people mostly worked for crappy places before getting on with less crappy places (at least in terms of pay) and they all say the work rules are way better at any place without PBS.

The system I am familiar with will give you your exact preferences IF it can comply with all those preferences EXACTLY. If there is any parameter that it can't comply with, you are thrown into a pool with everyone else. From this point on, the lines are built according to the needs of the system-without any regard for what you have requested.... That means you are well and truly SCREWED TO THE WALL! From this point, seniority means absolutely nothing!!

No more predictable trips, no more predictable days off-it is all what the system builds with no real ability to go and prove that your were hosed.

One of my buds told me that even though he is in the top 50% of his list on his aircraft at his base, he has never held a weekend off-even though he would prefer that. He also told me that people way junior to him have not worked a weekend since finishing IOE. This is not based of bidding well, or using the system in an appropriate manner, it is all based on what the system needs-all based on blind luck.

Bottom line-pretty much everyone will fly a RELIEF LINE every month! How freaking awful would that be?

I am not sure about the FAs and how they will vote, but if their idiot union people buy off on this, they need some serious beat-down!!!!!

-Say goodbye to any possible semblance of "quality of life" when this PBS crap shows up! It will be way worse for the FAs because they will not even have to comply with the rest requirements we have.

-Sorry Skipp-you need to step away from the Kool Aid and smell the coffee-this one is real bad news!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

The problem with PBS is that it is largely up to the company-they can make it sorta good or very bad....

....no different than with hard lines....

....next.....

 

[Jmoney]

Bull.........

....no different than with hard lines....

....next.....

You really have no idea whatsoever, do you? Figures....

Hard lines with 3 days? Weekends off.... We do still have a few of them now-not with PBS-guaranteed.

Say goodbye to stuff like that-say goodbye to weekends off-no matter how long you have been here. You will get thrown into the "pool" and you will be completely hosed.

This is a horrible system-some people just have to taste bad milk to figure out how bad it is. This thing stinks to high heaven and we all can see it coming miles away. Unfortunately, ASA is populated by a large percentage of morons like you who will have to "give it a try" to find out how freaking horrible it is!

The people at other carriers I know who now work under PBS are not prima-donnas-they have put up with crap as bad as anyone here, yet they universally despise this PBS garbage.

I am trying to warn people who are capable of logical thought processes against this stuff. It is harmful-probably more harmful to QOL than anything we have ever seen. You need not concern yourself with such things Joe, as you are clearly not in the group I am trying to address.

-Go back to your trailer-down by the river!