letter from retired AAA captain

[Sig]

ALPA's track record is pattern bargaining, which hasn't done so well post 9/11.

Which contracts' amendable dates that came up since 9/11 that were harmed by pattern bargaining?

And does this mean USAPA is going to be a strictly interest-based bargaining agent, or does it mean ALPA is never interest-based anywhere at any time, or does it mean anything at all?

 

[flygirlqt]

That places the uSAPa supporters just half a step above SCABs.

Right next to people who paid for their jobs.

 

[A350]

PCL:

Your totally inappropriate use of the SCAB word shows just how out of it you really are.

Look up the definition Mr. Union boy and get back to me.

ALPA history is littered with pilot groups trying to screw each other....need I list them>

A350

 

[cactusboy53]

.....ALPA can choose to start solving some of it's biggest problems, scope and mergers, or it can suffer the consequences......Lawsuits and decertification drives....The choice belongs to you ALPA cheerleaders....

Prove us wrong Rez....Go back to Herndon and change things....or not.....

Joe;
I'm a little confused. You seek ALPA to start solving problems like scope & merger. Does the merger section need to be fixed because the east pilots are more upset (by sheer number) than the west pilots? My understanding is the last major change to the ALPA merger policy was at the hands of US Air some sixteen years ago. Was what is fair and equitable then not fair and equitable now?

The fact is that ALPA merger policy was followed perfectly. If there were 3100 AWA pilots and 1800 US Air pilots, we wouldn't even be having this discussion would we??

I am not an ALPA National flag waver, but ALPA has the resources that we all need regarding representation for the whole body. They also have the programs in place that benefit all ALPA represented pilots, and have stood the test of time and trial. These programs include, but are not limited to Aeromedical, Air Carrier Security, Central Air Safety, HIMS, Retirement and Insurance, Professional Standards, Accident Investigation, etc.

The Nicolau Award will not change. Legally, it can not. In the meantime, the east has seen 2.5 years of growth already. With implementation, you are also talking about an additional 1-2 years AFTER we sign a joint contract. That is a total of 3 - 4 years of artificial fences. In fact, many of your furloughed pilots are already sitting left seat in the EMB 190!! Talk about a windfall! Why don't we expend our energies on something that REALLY benefits all LCC pilots.... focus our energy on Parker and his wallet??

 

[waveflyer]

you just hit the nail on the head cactusboy- they win the longer they delay, delay, delay.... When are AWA pilots going to grow a pair and sue AAA for walking away from the table? It's your only recourse- and only hope for a joint contract - the East has to have their hand slapped for what they are doing by a judge!

 

[erjdude]

Turbo:

I would expect nothing less from a fellow ALPA pilot....better for USAir to liquidate and for all of us to get in line behind you groveling for a job while you get the routes, upgrades, and $$$ while the rest of us start over? Not to mention the myriad of ALPA contracts, some are good, some are worse than the non-union houses. What about glass houses? It took two BK's for the USAir guys to have a contract worse than AWA.



A350

You explain and admit in one parigraph how you volintarily caused all your pain to yourself because you had to to to save your job. Interesting! Did ALPA national help you or hurt you then? Or was it local decisions and local votes?

Im confused Did ALPA national help you or hurt you? The company staiyed in business and all those decisions were made by your local MEC and voted in by you right?

So is this really about ALPA national or about NIC? And if it is about NIC you realize that is a zero sum game. For you to get what you (think) you are entitled you need to take it from someone else. That will not will not happen with yelllow or blue lanyards.

 

[BUDDHA145]

GREEN you are an idiot you will never see my green again!!!! here turn around ill show you where my FKN orange card is going to GO...

 

[MCDU]

The Nicolau Award will not change. Legally, it can not. In the meantime, the east has seen 2.5 years of growth already.

Growth, you call replacing 737 with 190's growth? 400 plus airplanes to little over 220 planes now. The last growth was almost 10 years ago. We have been parking planes. 757 and 737 are being parked. The only reason why people are moving up has been attrition. The only growth as been with regionals. Attrition will now slow now due to 65, but still many leave on medical and disabilty or early outs. We are stagnating in the EAST as well. Pilots replacing pilots. No growth. Still listing about 2800 active pilots on the line. Although staffing did go from 6 to 6.6 per aircraft.

Marty

 

[TWA Dude]

We are stagnating in the EAST as well.

Oh really? Offering recall to 1600 pilots and having hundreds of upgrades doesn't sound to me like stagnation. Spare us the crocodile tears. The West is about to see the first additions to our pilot ranks in 2-1/2 years: five pilots. Just like Nicolau stated: "This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues." That octagenarian sure knew how to call it.

 

[cactusboy53]

Marty;
Yes they say the 737's are going to be replaced, but I have heard that when the leases come up....low and behold LCC keeps them at a good rate. No proof, but since LCC is still hiring and not reducing in force on the east...that would lend to this theory. In other words if you are replacing airplane for airplane, there should be no need to hire...right? Hiring stagnation briefly as a result of age 60/65...but the beat goes on.

 

[cactusboy53]

Wave;
From your type written words to a DFR lawsuit. We need to see if we will keep ALPA or not. If we are sucked into the USAPA machine, look for lots of litigation....The good news you ask? The opposition lawyer's children all get new BMW Z4 roadsters as a highschool graduation present!!

If we keep ALPA, then the ball is in Prater's court regarding the JNC participation of the AAA pilots. Gee, I wonder if Prater will act like a president of a labor union??

 

[MCDU]

Stagnation in regards to airframes. Recall was due to 400 plus leaving a year.

Hey Dave, how did your merger with Mountain Air get handled in 1998?

Marty

 

[FR8mastr]

Wave;
. Gee, I wonder if Prater will act like a president of a labor union??

Why would he start now?

 

[FR8mastr]

Marty;
Yes they say the 737's are going to be replaced, but I have heard that when the leases come up....low and behold LCC keeps them at a good rate. No proof, but since LCC is still hiring and not reducing in force on the east...that would lend to this theory. In other words if you are replacing airplane for airplane, there should be no need to hire...right? Hiring stagnation briefly as a result of age 60/65...but the beat goes on.

They are hiring because of retirements and pilots leaving for greener pastures, as well as medicals. This is not growth. The East was running short for years, they just finally ran out of wiggle room. One look at the fleet count proves this is not growth.

I hope you are correct about the 737's

 

[Boeing747Driver]

If we keep ALPA, then the ball is in Prater's court regarding the JNC participation of the AAA pilots. Gee, I wonder if Prater will act like a president of a labor union??

We all know the answer to that one.

 

[waveflyer]

cactusboy- there might be a good reason for this- but why do you have to wait? Doesn't alpa currently represent AAA- and haven't THEY been in violation of the transition agreement by walking away for some time now?

educate me
thx

 

[cactusboy53]

Stagnation in regards to airframes. Recall was due to 400 plus leaving a year.

Hey Dave, how did your merger with Mountain Air get handled in 1998?

Marty

I was hired at AWAC after MAX was aquired by AWAC, so I was below them in seniority anyway. AWAC had two classes before (Jan & Mar I think), so I believe that those groups were placed according to relative seniority of some sort, NOT DATE OF HIRE.

I was just basking in the right seat of the BAe146 as a new hire (line holder, no less!!). I guess UAL just kicked some dirt bag (J.O.) and his company off the property, and said they (UAL) never wanted to see them ever again. Funny, huh?

 

[cactusboy53]

cactusboy- there might be a good reason for this- but why do you have to wait? Doesn't alpa currently represent AAA- and haven't THEY been in violation of the transition agreement by walking away for some time now?

educate me
thx

Wave;
That is the $120,000 a day question. The answer might only be found in the phrase: Hindsight is always 20/20. Shoulda, woulda, coulda...

What Prater should have done is examine the award and deliver it within 30 days of getting it. He then should have instructed the AAA group to return to the JNC table ASAP. The window for significant contract improvements was open then (perhaps not so much now).

We will see what this vote brings, and then what further guidance from ALPA National (if they remain). ALPA is still the quickest way for money to return (especially) to the east pilot's pockets.

 

[whymeworry?]

So how do SWAPA, APA, and IPA pilots survive without the mighty ALPA?

 

[TWA Dude]

Interestingly, by banding together:
http://www.capapilots.org/about.asp

I guess there's something to the "strength in numbers" thing.