Delta-Northwest Deal at Risk

[propdog]

Does anyone know if the merger committees are working through the weekend? Rumor from another forum states that they are not even meeting anymore...??

 

[Noserider76]

For the record, I'm really not that old. I do have a lot of great F-4 stories, some even better A-37 stories and one reeeeeeally good F-16 story. The difference is, I don't usually talk about them unless somebody asks me first. I'm not unhappy or bitter. I am actually quite happy where I'm at right now since there is more to life than my main job. The only thing I might even remotely be bitter about would be the second furlough from NWA that was totally unnecessary and nothing more than a tool to use against the pilots going into bankruptcy. I don't let that eat at me though. I just keep it in the back of my mind to remind me that mgt is not my friend and certainly not my friend in a potential merger. I don't really care if this merger goes or not. I'm content where I'm at now and could live with a "go it alone" plan. If it does go, then I hope for a fair SLI and compensation from the company. I have no desire to move back down south and I could be happy finishing my career on a bus. The best part about flying the bus is I'll never have to give you a before start checklist.

You've had (and are still having) a great career flying things that many would love to have experienced. I left NW in the fall of 99 to go to DL and I heard about the double furlough my class at NW endured. I can't think of a better way for a company to piss off a bunch of good people. Glad you made it through OK.

 

[General Lee]

Typical GL retort...completely expected and predictable as usual. I USED to enjoy this forum a lot more when it was a great tool for gaining useful information for those looking to get hired at the airlines and advance the profession. Now it is more like driving by a car wreck and gawking for entertainment purposes. Those were before the days anyone would even think about 10K+ posts of nothing more than stirring the pot. I don't expect any confidential info from you since you aren't on the negotiating committee for DAL and that's the only way you would be privy to anything confidential. You continue to spread rumors and second hand info from "unamed sources" and idiotic news articles that do nothing constructive and continue to fan the flames and stir the pot. I'm sure your MEC (as ours has) has asked pilots not to believe all of this cr@p and not spread rumors like this, yet you continue to do so for your own twisted entertainment and sense of self-importance. If you ENJOY that aspect of this forum, then more power (or perceived power) to you. I will not continue to call you a horse's ass. That was a one time slip of the tounge for me. I was just glad to see that there are some DAL guys on the board that feel the same way about you as most everybody else. I didn't want them to think the rest of the world thinks they are all horses' asses (his words, not mine). For the record, I'm really not that old. I do have a lot of great F-4 stories, some even better A-37 stories and one reeeeeeally good F-16 story. The difference is, I don't usually talk about them unless somebody asks me first. I'm not unhappy or bitter. I am actually quite happy where I'm at right now since there is more to life than my main job. The only thing I might even remotely be bitter about would be the second furlough from NWA that was totally unnecessary and nothing more than a tool to use against the pilots going into bankruptcy. I don't let that eat at me though. I just keep it in the back of my mind to remind me that mgt is not my friend and certainly not my friend in a potential merger. I don't really care if this merger goes or not. I'm content where I'm at now and could live with a "go it alone" plan. If it does go, then I hope for a fair SLI and compensation from the company. I have no desire to move back down south and I could be happy finishing my career on a bus. The best part about flying the bus is I'll never have to give you a before start checklist.

I don't claim to, nor never have claimed to, supply "need to know" info about Delta. I post articles with limited info, and I debate the issues. That's it. Some people find it entertaining, some do not. I honestly don't care either way. You said used to look at this board for informational reasons for hiring etc. Why are you still here then? Something brings you back, and I doubt it is me. Regardless, I think you are right about one thing, I will not be your captain on the bus, probably.....Thanks for being a good sport.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[propdog]

So...did the merger committee meet today??

 

[NuGuy]

So...did the merger committee meet today??

Word is "yes".

But...the NWA MEC has basically come out at said that protecting the bottom 1/2 of the list is THE priority, and the DAL team can't understand why we won't sell out half our list, even for a big pile of cash.

There's been lots of clever "ad placement" and "negotiating in the press" by the DAL MEC and their operatives that has acted as political cover for what their real position was.

Despite claims of "cowboys" on the NWA team, the DAL opener was absolute nonsense that would have not only put DAL guys entrenched at the top for years, but would have stapled over 2000 NWA guys to the bottom of list. Needless to say, the NWA guys put one finger on each hand up and told them to go pound grits.

Now that all the dickswinging is over, it's back to business on coming to a real agreement.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

Word is "yes".

But...the NWA MEC has basically come out at said that protecting the bottom 1/2 of the list is THE priority, and the DAL team can't understand why we won't sell out half our list, even for a big pile of cash.

There's been lots of clever "ad placement" and "negotiating in the press" by the DAL MEC and their operatives that has acted as political cover for what their real position was.

Despite claims of "cowboys" on the NWA team, the DAL opener was absolute nonsense that would have not only put DAL guys entrenched at the top for years, but would have stapled over 2000 NWA guys to the bottom of list. Needless to say, the NWA guys put one finger on each hand up and told them to go pound grits.

Now that all the dickswinging is over, it's back to business on coming to a real agreement.

Nu

Good info, thanks!! :beer:

 

[tbkane]

As it should be. If NW wants the top positions for the 747 then they should get the bottom for the DC 9's and the 319's. As a furloughee our MEC better make sure NO NEW HIRE NWA pilots are senior to me. If their MEC wants raises, work rules, keep pension and get the same money we get on the signing then they HAVE to give up something. YOU CAN"T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TO!!!! You NW guys are amazing...

 

[JohnQ]

As it should be. If NW wants the top positions for the 747 then they should get the bottom for the DC 9's and the 319's. As a furloughee our MEC better make sure NO NEW HIRE NWA pilots are senior to me. If their MEC wants raises, work rules, keep pension and get the same money we get on the signing then they HAVE to give up something. YOU CAN"T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TO!!!! You NW guys are amazing...

I'm trying to figure out the (reported) gall of the NWA guys, summarized thus:

- DAL guys gave up their pension to keep their work rules and some semblance of pay

- NWA guys gave up pay AND work rules to keep some semblance of their pension

- Now the NWA guys get a big pay raise to parity with DAL, get far better work rules, AND get to keep their pension, AND insist that 3000 DAL guys get stapled to the bottom of the list!

Now that's some funny stuff! (if true)

 

[Superpilot92]

Those top guys are out in a couple years. Your top guys bailed already. Whats the difference? NWA hasn't had its big retirement push so far. Why should DAL guys get a double retirement bump and the NWA guys get none? Disclaimer: i want a fair deal just as much as anyone else. Lets just stay separate and all stay happy!!

 

[propdog]

I'm trying to figure out the (reported) gall of the NWA guys, summarized thus:

- DAL guys gave up their pension to keep their work rules and some semblance of pay

- NWA guys gave up pay AND work rules to keep some semblance of their pension

- Now the NWA guys get a big pay raise to parity with DAL, get far better work rules, AND get to keep their pension, AND insist that 3000 DAL guys get stapled to the bottom of the list!

Now that's some funny stuff! (if true)

Bro, NWA did not ask to staple 3000 pilots to the bottom. That was what the press reported...but they were way off as usual.

 

[Occam's Razor]

No merger meetings today. Maybe Monday.

No "stapling" talk. Differing ratios or methods...that's all.

It's not an easy process. If it was, it'd be done by now.

 

[tbkane]

No you absolutely right they didn't ask for 3,000. Just that the 400 top positions and 1.2 for 1. So if you do the math then the bottom 2,300 pilots will be all DAL and newhires will have seniority as if they were hired in 1998 (about when they were hired at Mesaba). I give them credit push all in and the worst that happens is your out but if our MEC buys off on this not only will I vote for the recall but I will run for MEC to change things....

 

[NuGuy]

No you absolutely right they didn't ask for 3,000. Just that the 400 top positions and 1.2 for 1. So if you do the math then the bottom 2,300 pilots will be all DAL and newhires will have seniority as if they were hired in 1998 (about when they were hired at Mesaba). I give them credit push all in and the worst that happens is your out but if our MEC buys off on this not only will I vote for the recall but I will run for MEC to change things....

LOL, that must be that "new math"...

Nu

 

[johnsonrod]

Word is "yes".

But...the NWA MEC has basically come out at said that protecting the bottom 1/2 of the list is THE priority, and the DAL team can't understand why we won't sell out half our list, even for a big pile of cash.

There's been lots of clever "ad placement" and "negotiating in the press" by the DAL MEC and their operatives that has acted as political cover for what their real position was.

Despite claims of "cowboys" on the NWA team, the DAL opener was absolute nonsense that would have not only put DAL guys entrenched at the top for years, but would have stapled over 2000 NWA guys to the bottom of list. Needless to say, the NWA guys put one finger on each hand up and told them to go pound grits.

Now that all the dickswinging is over, it's back to business on coming to a real agreement.

Nu

What about Delta's bottom half? You suggest they should be at the bottom of the combined list? Man that's rich. Not only do the NWA guys get a pay raise and better work rules in a merger scenario, but they also get to keep their pensions as well as access to more commutable hubs (in some cases for commuters who live in the South and West). Sounds like they get a great deal - especially since they would also get the top 400 slots. But no - it ain't good enough. Perhaps drivers (Delta pilots) to/from the airport should also be offered.

The Delta guys better hope Lee Moak doesn't become Lee CHOKE. This, if true, is getting ridiculous.

 

[NuGuy]

What about Delta's bottom half? You suggest they should be at the bottom of the combined list?

Dude, are we even having the same conversation? Where did I suggest that the junior DAL guys get stapled? Unlike you, apparently, I try to get more accurate information than just what I read in the paper. How many threads on FI have there been about bogus reporting?

Man that's rich. Not only do the NWA guys get a pay raise and better work rules in a merger scenario, but they also get to keep their pensions as well as access to more commutable hubs (in some cases for commuters who live in the South and West).

Is the sky even blue in your world? Sounds like from the deal, that the best parts of BOTH contracts are on the table. I'd certainly prefer NWAs bid guarantee, monthly guarantee, and premium pay system over DALs.

Sure, just about all the NWA guys have some pension frozen, MANY below the PBGC guarantee. But the large majority certainly aren't going to get anything close to a full payout. OTOH, I seem to remember the DAL guys getting paid off for theirs with a very nice settlement (6 figures, was it?).

As for commutable bases, I'm sure a lot of our pilots (and that's a LOT) who live in Michigan, Wisconsin, Nebraska and the Dakotas would beg to differ on your definition of commutability. I don't see many DAL flights in FSD, MSN, GRR or OMA. Unless you live in New York, I'd call it a push from anything from DC up. Not everyone lives in Florida, the way you make it sound. Plus booking the jumpseat 11 days out (via voice/web) without getting skunked by a checkairman or management weenie on vacation sounds like an improvement for the DAL guys

Believe me, NYC, SLC or ATL really aren't on many people's "gosh, I gotta get me some of that" list.

If a deal happens, NO ONE is going to get stapled. SOMEBODY is going to be at the bottom, and it's going to be a newhire, with some sort of mix in front of him

Get your panties unwound and contact your reps if you want the straight dope.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

Word is "yes".

The word is you are clueless and have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[NuGuy]

The word is you are clueless and have no idea what you are talking about.

Word is neither do you, so sit back, polish your buttons and enjoy the ride until something official is announced.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

Word is neither do you, so sit back, polish your buttons and enjoy the ride until something official is announced.

That's fair enough. Don't take it too personally, we're not alone.

We both have merger committees, how about we let them do their job and not spread unsubstantiated BS as "the word is."

Fair enough?

This will all work out one way or another.

 

[propdog]

Monday announcement...huh??

Fox news is reporting that Monday is the new target for the merger announcement, provided pilots come to an agreement over the weekend. However, the pilot merger committees are not even meeting during the weekend. How can any announcement come on Monday then?? I guess press is as clueless as we are-as usual....

Here is the link and the report:

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfo...n=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

"ATLANTA – The announcement to join airline powerhouses Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines was supposed to come in the past week, but an impasse involving the pilots union has halted the deal-making.

People familiar with the talks says the new target remains Monday for a combination announcement, provided the pilot talks make progress over the weekend.

Industry observers recognize that if Delta or Northwest walk away, they still have options. The two airlines could remain independent, seek a quick deal with another carrier, or wait until next year to try again with consolidation.

As of Sunday afternoon, there wasn’t any word on a pilot agreement."

 

[NYRANGERS]

Fox news is reporting that Monday is the new target for the merger announcement, provided pilots come to an agreement over the weekend. However, the pilot merger committees are not even meeting during the weekend. How can any announcement come on Monday then?? I guess press is as clueless as we are-as usual....

Here is the link and the report:

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfo...n=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

"ATLANTA – The announcement to join airline powerhouses Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines was supposed to come in the past week, but an impasse involving the pilots union has halted the deal-making.

People familiar with the talks says the new target remains Monday for a combination announcement, provided the pilot talks make progress over the weekend.

Industry observers recognize that if Delta or Northwest walk away, they still have options. The two airlines could remain independent, seek a quick deal with another carrier, or wait until next year to try again with consolidation.

As of Sunday afternoon, there wasn’t any word on a pilot agreement."

According to the last "Lounge Meeting" Beck reiterated, " if there is no pilot agreement, there is no deal."

We don't need this....neither group needs this. KILL IT NOW!!!