CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Posts
- 2,644
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
letter from retired AAA captain
- Thread starter Green
- Start date
- Watchers 30
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2004
- Posts
- 13,422
CopilotDoug
Captain of Industry
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
- Posts
- 2,644
Incorrect...as usual. To be expected of ALPA cheerleaders.
MK82Man
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
- Posts
- 210
The sad aspect of this whole debate is that USAPA seeks to gain at someone else's expense, a fellow pilot’s expense, IE the pilots of America West. Someone said it was a war, well not like Desert Storm, but their will be casualties to pilot/gate agents/ramp workers/mechanics/reservation agent’s families as the East tries to benefit their lot at the West’s expense. They seem willing to throw the entire carrier under the bus … it is mindless.
If they had waited until we got the merger put together and then started a campaign to throw out ALPA that would be one thing. The East only cranked up USAPA as a way to try to overturn the Nic award. They want a do-over to binding Federal Arbitration. They seek to throw out ALPA (the East MEC and LEC reps seemed very happy with ALPA up until May of 2007 … no recall drives or a chorus of “let’s get rid of ALPA”) as a way to cheat the America West pilots out of what we both signed up too -- Federal Binding Arbitration. Now if USAPA wins, 1800 guys out West are not going to call the cheaters: "union brothers and sisters" ... it just doesn't work that way. This was a merger, where you work in fairness to try to put the ship on the right course. The East only wants their course, the way they see it. Their pilot demands (as the best paid pilots in the industry for years) did not help the financial situation at the old US Air. Now they want someone else to continue to pay the bill they can’t fund. They look for a scapegoat. ALPA ain’t perfect, but get involved to fix it. I’m tired of hearing from East posters how ALPA was responsible for this and that … no, your LECs and MECs are responsible for the direction at your carrier and are your messengers to National to change National policy. It ain’t ALPA National’s fault.
Throwing darts from the sidelines never works in a democracy. USAPA is doomed from the start. ALPA will not embrace USAPA; they’ve already stated they won’t provide services. So management wins again and the pilots lose. The East pilot’s want to make chump change over a few months and has now let 2 years go by where we could have been moving forward as a collective group with real monetary gains. So nearsighted these USAPA cheerleaders.
So all the East guys that see USAPA as their “savior” are looking thru rose-colored glasses. USAPA will severely dent this carrier and stagnation will result for no less than 4/5 years. Of course, that is part of the East’s plan. Stagnation benefits them as they upgrade and benefit from the merger while the West does not. How will USAPA function when 1800 guys don’t pay dues and the West sues … ?
Management is going to want to re-negotiate everything. They’ll seek to enforce the transition agreement and all existing agreements while the whole thing is hammered out. If you think it will take less than five years, you deserve to be drug tested. No to USAPA. No to a do-over of the Nic Award. We need to move forward not backward.
If they had waited until we got the merger put together and then started a campaign to throw out ALPA that would be one thing. The East only cranked up USAPA as a way to try to overturn the Nic award. They want a do-over to binding Federal Arbitration. They seek to throw out ALPA (the East MEC and LEC reps seemed very happy with ALPA up until May of 2007 … no recall drives or a chorus of “let’s get rid of ALPA”) as a way to cheat the America West pilots out of what we both signed up too -- Federal Binding Arbitration. Now if USAPA wins, 1800 guys out West are not going to call the cheaters: "union brothers and sisters" ... it just doesn't work that way. This was a merger, where you work in fairness to try to put the ship on the right course. The East only wants their course, the way they see it. Their pilot demands (as the best paid pilots in the industry for years) did not help the financial situation at the old US Air. Now they want someone else to continue to pay the bill they can’t fund. They look for a scapegoat. ALPA ain’t perfect, but get involved to fix it. I’m tired of hearing from East posters how ALPA was responsible for this and that … no, your LECs and MECs are responsible for the direction at your carrier and are your messengers to National to change National policy. It ain’t ALPA National’s fault.
Throwing darts from the sidelines never works in a democracy. USAPA is doomed from the start. ALPA will not embrace USAPA; they’ve already stated they won’t provide services. So management wins again and the pilots lose. The East pilot’s want to make chump change over a few months and has now let 2 years go by where we could have been moving forward as a collective group with real monetary gains. So nearsighted these USAPA cheerleaders.
So all the East guys that see USAPA as their “savior” are looking thru rose-colored glasses. USAPA will severely dent this carrier and stagnation will result for no less than 4/5 years. Of course, that is part of the East’s plan. Stagnation benefits them as they upgrade and benefit from the merger while the West does not. How will USAPA function when 1800 guys don’t pay dues and the West sues … ?
Management is going to want to re-negotiate everything. They’ll seek to enforce the transition agreement and all existing agreements while the whole thing is hammered out. If you think it will take less than five years, you deserve to be drug tested. No to USAPA. No to a do-over of the Nic Award. We need to move forward not backward.
Actually, Pinnacle is an good example of why ALPA is the right tool for the job. There is NO WAY an airline the size of Pinnacle, with the amount of turnover they have could ever afford to do what they do on their own.
ALPA will bring Mesa and Pinnacle up to the level of their peers.
And anyone who thinks SWA is so great due to their independent union is nuts. With all due respect to their organization, how many considered SWA the place to be pre-9/11. How bad did the SWA employees get shafted during the 1113(c) process?
Oh, wait....
Turbo
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2004
- Posts
- 13,422
My post was springboard for you to use the best of your cirtical thought... and example of critical thought is post 49 and 50.... not 48.
Prove him wrong. Where is your objective analysis? Where are your answers to his questions? All we see from you is uncontrolled emotion. Such is typical of the anti-ALPA set.
All the East and West guys will have an opportunity to vote on who they want to represent them.
Thats the democratic process at work.
If the majority of the combined ( East + West) pilots decide they want USAPA to be their bargaining agent...then they will also have an opportunity to vote on a constitution...
...again...the democratic process at work.
Best of luck to both groups eventually becoming one
Thats the democratic process at work.
If the majority of the combined ( East + West) pilots decide they want USAPA to be their bargaining agent...then they will also have an opportunity to vote on a constitution...
...again...the democratic process at work.
Best of luck to both groups eventually becoming one
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
Today, airline brands for both passenger and all-cargo operations have
developed elaborate strategies to get pilots who work for separate companies
with separate contracts and seniority lists to compete for work within the
brand on a "lowest-bid" basis. Of all the challenges vexing us in the first
years of the 21st Century, this may be the greatest.
The Bilateral Scope Impact Committee's report that went to the Executive
Board was embraced and acclaimed for good reason. It cut to the heart of the
matter and succinctly stated the obvious: job security and career
progression opportunities are two sides of the same coin. Against an airline
brand management strategy, only a counter strategy by the pilots within the
brand to deal with both issues together has any chance of succeeding.
If we want to stop erosion of ALPA pay standards, we must deal with job
security and career progression as a single issue. A combination of fences
and bridges will be required. If we accept the status quo, the race to the
bottom will continue.
If we stop pointing fingers and start joining hands, some group of pilots
within some brand will be the first to develop a prototype model that stops
the bleeding. It is said that "necessity" is the mother of invention. With
all the pain, with all the bloodshed within our ranks, we should have all
the "necessity" we need to invent something new to stop the whipsawing.
developed elaborate strategies to get pilots who work for separate companies
with separate contracts and seniority lists to compete for work within the
brand on a "lowest-bid" basis. Of all the challenges vexing us in the first
years of the 21st Century, this may be the greatest.
The Bilateral Scope Impact Committee's report that went to the Executive
Board was embraced and acclaimed for good reason. It cut to the heart of the
matter and succinctly stated the obvious: job security and career
progression opportunities are two sides of the same coin. Against an airline
brand management strategy, only a counter strategy by the pilots within the
brand to deal with both issues together has any chance of succeeding.
If we want to stop erosion of ALPA pay standards, we must deal with job
security and career progression as a single issue. A combination of fences
and bridges will be required. If we accept the status quo, the race to the
bottom will continue.
If we stop pointing fingers and start joining hands, some group of pilots
within some brand will be the first to develop a prototype model that stops
the bleeding. It is said that "necessity" is the mother of invention. With
all the pain, with all the bloodshed within our ranks, we should have all
the "necessity" we need to invent something new to stop the whipsawing.
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2004
- Posts
- 13,422
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
Do you agree with it? How are WE doing? How is ALPA doing?
You seem to like to answer with questions.....
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2004
- Posts
- 13,422
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
....then what happened....why can't the greatest union implement it? It's kinda like Obama.....If you can't implement it....then you have a problem.....
Rez O. Lewshun
Save the Profession
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2004
- Posts
- 13,422
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
.....ALPA can choose to start solving some of it's biggest problems, scope and mergers, or it can suffer the consequences......Lawsuits and decertification drives....The choice belongs to you ALPA cheerleaders....
Prove us wrong Rez....Go back to Herndon and change things....or not.....
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
