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Age 60 Exchange - Please Use Caution

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BoilerUP said:
Ya know UndauntedFlyer, one would think a proper definition of "professionalism" would include having enough grace and humility to accept your victory without CONSTANTLY bringing it up to those who opposed you.
Click to expand...

I just don't get it. I have had no victory. I'm out of work living in a trailer. I buy some of my clothes at the Salvaton Army or maybe Sam's when I do a check ride or two. If I had won I would still be flying to HNL and having a party at Chuck's every week. No I have not been a victor in the age-60 war. I was clearly beaten by the "get out of my seat" crowd. I am a casuality of the war and now many of you are too. But in reality, you'll really like working the extra 5 years. Flying is fun even as a co-pilot jerking the gear. It's all about living the dream.

You all think my dream has been so great. Well how about 2 multi-year furloughs (7years), 15-years as an FE, lousey trips including many all nighters. And finally I get to fly the senior trips and I lose my job just about as quickly.

Right, you are all so unfortunte in your careers.

So I am certainly not a Victor in this battle or the war either.
 
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UF it may have been unprofessional for someone to send u the FU letter. But thats not what got people riled up. It was the fact that you are threatening to report a fellow pilot to management. Havent you learned to your 20+thousand hours exp that this is not the right thing to do?
 
BigMeat said:
UF it may have been unprofessional for someone to send u the FU letter. But thats not what got people riled up. It was the fact that you are threatening to report a fellow pilot to management. Havent you learned to your 20+thousand hours exp that this is not the right thing to do?
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Where do you get this. I have certainly not threatened to report anyone, nor would I. In fact, I am pleased to say that in my 40-year career in aviation so far, never once did I write-up anybody for anything. Oh yea, I forgot, I did write about 1,000 letters of recommendation to help people get jobs, is that what you mean?
 
UF isn't Paul E. He's another notorious age-65 blowhard.
 
PRESS RELEASE..."The Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act, recently signed into law as Pub. L. No. 110-135, will be challenged on a variety of grounds. Due to poor drafting and clearly unconstitutional components, the law, signed into law on December 13, 2007, presents something of a target-rich environment. Pilots will seek declaratory and injunctive relief under the Declaratory Judgment Act, 18 U.S.C. 2001 et seq. If successful, the law will be declared null and void … Obviously, the best outcome would be a legislative fix. This law seems almost casual, if not conversational, in its language. Congress clearly enacted this law with little understanding of its implications or inevitable litigation. If struck in this lawsuit, the Act will cause further confusion and chaos as courts force companies to reverse measures implemented after its enactment.
 
If the law gets declared null and void, does that mean that all pilots who've crossed the threshold shall be required to retire until the new law has been hashed out?

Second question... how do you PROVE that you were "forced out" and not "voluntarily retired?"

This is so sad... why not just retire with dignity?
 
Oh, I didn't read the other post about you living in a trailer shopping at the Salvation Army or Sam's.

You know UF, my heart bleeds for you.

Let's see...

How long have you been a captain at UAL?

How much money have you made in wages alone since you've become a captain? OK, let's take it a step further, in the last 5 years?

How much is your B-plan? Did you get anything in your C-plan to offset the loss of your A-plan? Don't forget, you still get PBGC payment.

Add those numbers up, and if you haven't been able to:

a) get out of debt, especially immediately after 9/11 considering your wages

b) save money for rainy day during your career instead of blowing it at Chuck's.

c) planned for the worst, while hoping for the best

you are truly a lost cause, and I feel sorry that your parents haven't taught you how to save.

I am pretty sure that the new law will withstand legal challenge, but your generation will be known as the one who has created a civil war within the pilot ranks that will ultimately dwarf the scabs issues of the 80's and 90's. Nice legacy to leave behind.

Why not try to get a job in business aviation? You would absolutely love it. Think HNL is a good layover? Wow, talk about low expectations.

Why not try fractionals? They love retired airline pilots.

Hey, look at expat jobs - they'd snatch you up in a heartbeat since the U.S. now allows pilots up to 65 (unless you and your cronies screw that up and it goes back to 60 until your version of law gets hashed and rehashed).

On the other hand, why not try to go back to UAL as a probie? Wait, I know the answer to that one... you'd lose your PBGC payments, right? Or you don't want to sling gear for one of your former FO's?

Which is it?
 
Freight Dog said:
Oh, I didn't read the other post about you living in a trailer shopping at the Salvation Army or Sam's.

You know UF, my heart bleeds for you.

Let's see...

How long have you been a captain at UAL?

How much money have you made in wages alone since you've become a captain? OK, let's take it a step further, in the last 5 years?

How much is your B-plan? Did you get anything in your C-plan to offset the loss of your A-plan? Don't forget, you still get PBGC payment.

Add those numbers up, and if you haven't been able to:

a) get out of debt, especially immediately after 9/11 considering your wages

b) save money for rainy day during your career instead of blowing it at Chuck's.

c) planned for the worst, while hoping for the best

you are truly a lost cause, and I feel sorry that your parents haven't taught you how to save.

I am pretty sure that the new law will withstand legal challenge, but your generation will be known as the one who has created a civil war within the pilot ranks that will ultimately dwarf the scabs issues of the 80's and 90's. Nice legacy to leave behind.

Why not try to get a job in business aviation? You would absolutely love it. Think HNL is a good layover? Wow, talk about low expectations.

Why not try fractionals? They love retired airline pilots.

Hey, look at expat jobs - they'd snatch you up in a heartbeat since the U.S. now allows pilots up to 65 (unless you and your cronies screw that up and it goes back to 60 until your version of law gets hashed and rehashed).

On the other hand, why not try to go back to UAL as a probie? Wait, I know the answer to that one... you'd lose your PBGC payments, right? Or you don't want to sling gear for one of your former FO's?

Which is it?
Click to expand...

Freightdog: I really don't understand your post.

As you have pointed out I have retired and at age 60, just as you want everyone to do (except you I would guess from your post).

I've gotten a mostly non-flying job now and moved to a house. Yes, I have purchased clothing at the Salvation Army as you have pointed out but now that I'm working I'm able to buy most things at Walmart. Is that OK with you?

My post #39 is part of a press release that sez the age 60/65 law is being challenged. So what's your problem?

You have everything, I'm a beaten man. Beaten by you, the FAA, your "get out of my seat" colleagues and your Union. Please keep in mind that all the while I still have a family that includes a 16-year old son. My son will be going to the Community College instead of U of I. Is that OK too? On the other hand you now have the opportunity to work 5-extra years if you so choose. From your post it sounds as though you're angry that the age 65 law is being challanged. I guess that's because you now want to work to age 65. That figures!

Do you go down to the streets and kick the homeless on your days off?
 
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UndauntedFlyer said:
I just don't get it. I have had no victory. I'm out of work living in a trailer. I buy some of my clothes at the Salvaton Army or maybe Sam's when I do a check ride or two. If I had won I would still be flying to HNL and having a party at Chuck's every week. No I have not been a victor in the age-60 war. I was clearly beaten by the "get out of my seat" crowd. I am a casuality of the war and now many of you are too. But in reality, you'll really like working the extra 5 years. Flying is fun even as a co-pilot jerking the gear. It's all about living the dream.

You all think my dream has been so great. Well how about 2 multi-year furloughs (7years), 15-years as an FE, lousey trips including many all nighters. And finally I get to fly the senior trips and I lose my job just about as quickly.

Right, you are all so unfortunte in your careers.

So I am certainly not a Victor in this battle or the war either.
Click to expand...

QUE THE VIOLINS!:puke:
 
UndauntedFlyer said:
Freightdog: I really don't understand your post.

As you have pointed out I have retired and at age 60, just as you want everyone to do (except you I would guess from your post).

I've gotten a mostly non-flying job now and moved to a house. Yes, I have purchased clothing at the Salvation Army as you have pointed out but now that I'm working I'm able to buy most things at Walmart. Is that OK with you?

My post #39 is part of a press release that sez the age 60/65 law is being challenged. So what's your problem?

You have everything, I'm a beaten man. Beaten by you, the FAA, your "get out of my seat" colleagues and your Union. Please keep in mind that all the while I still have a family that includes a 16-year old son. My son will be going to the Community College instead of U of I. Is that OK too? On the other hand you now have the opportunity to work 5-extra years if you so choose. From your post it sounds as though you're angry that the age 65 law is being challanged. I guess that's because you now want to work to age 65. That figures!

Do you go down to the streets and kick the homeless on your days off?
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm not angry that it's being challenged, nor am I planning to work to 60, let alone 65. I don't have anything to lose by you guys appealing the new law. If anything, I stand to gain if it's overturned and it gets reverted back to 60 since it will kick the over-60 guys out of left seats.

No brother... you're not a beaten man. You are just retired, like tens of thousands of other airline pilots that came before you, under the same rules and regulations that those tens of thousands of pilots retired before you that enabled you to advance to that coveted 777 captain seat. You were unfortunate in that your A-plan was terminated. Fortunately for you, even after all the paycuts, you were still making over $186k a year. Yes, it must suck that you took 40% paycut, and lost your A-plan but you weren't making chump change that you were pondering being homeless. If you did, then it's your own fault, not ALPA's, FAA's, your fellow pilots'. Stop blaming everyone else for your mistakes.

If you are that concerned about your future:

http://www.parcaviation.aero/aviation/FlightcrewJobs.asp

http://www.rishworthaviation.com/opportunities/oppslist.asp?cat=1


Both of these headhunters are looking for 777 captains. Some offer US-based direct entry 777 captains. Hey, why not? Re-live the old glory, and send your boy to U of I.

We're not your enemy, bud. You knew you were approaching age 60, and with turbulence in this industry that you've experienced, you should have known better and planned accordingly.
 
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UF, is there some problem with your son paying to go to U of I? I paid for my own degree, while working full time. Made me truly appreciate my time and my money.

Are you telling me that your ENTIRE retirement plan was your A plan?
 
Freight Dog said:
Actually, I'm not angry that it's being challenged, nor am I planning to work to 60, let alone 65.
Click to expand...

I have heard this before from many on this Board as well as from thousands of others on the line. It's just BS and you don't even know it. Almost no one retires early when they have reached a senior position. I am well aware of the constant complaining that goes with the job and part of that is the "I can't wait to retire and get out of this crap," or the "I'm not going to wait for age 60, l want to retire at age 55 when I can still enjoy life." Don't you understand that that is just part of the stereotypical cockpit conversation that is expected? Very few, to almost no one, really act on this fantasy. The truth is that almost everyone, unless there is some horrible commute or a personal situation at home will retire "early." I guess you haven’t figured this out yet. Your sincerity in your belief that you will retire early is so naive that it is actually quite funny to me. Of yes, I’m sure you will disagree with me and so will others from your group of young pilots, but I ask that you remember this posting when you’re age 64 and still flying. You’ll get a big laugh too.
 
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Why wouldn't I retire early? Not all of us party at Chuck's every chance we get. Not all of us depend on our airlines for retirement, or income for that matter.

You could say we learned something from your generation.
 
Freight Dog said:
You could say we learned something from your generation.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately you have leaned nothing from what I have said or don't believe it, just as my posting predicted.
 
UF -

You sound so pathetic whining about your son's college and your furloughs, etc.

Do you realize there are many 45-55 year old pilots who have also been on furlough for the past six years? Some of these guys were furloughed before this, too. I guess they should stay out or stay junior forever so you can live the dream. Where should their kids go to school?

The thing that really gets me about you guys is that you've known about the retirement age for your entire career! This isn't something that sneaked up on you. You can cry bad timing, pension stolen, etc, but it has nothing to do with the issue. We have ALL taken a hit, and those of us who are trying to save something for retirement now are going to be severely hampered by staying junior for five more years (at best) or getting furloughed again soon. You know it and I know it. Please spare us the notion that you are the only group suffering.
 
UndauntedFlyer said:
Freightdog: I really don't understand your post.

As you have pointed out I have retired and at age 60, just as you want everyone to do (except you I would guess from your post).

I've gotten a mostly non-flying job now and moved to a house. Yes, I have purchased clothing at the Salvation Army as you have pointed out but now that I'm working I'm able to buy most things at Walmart. Is that OK with you?

My post #39 is part of a press release that sez the age 60/65 law is being challenged. So what's your problem?

You have everything, I'm a beaten man. Beaten by you, the FAA, your "get out of my seat" colleagues and your Union. Please keep in mind that all the while I still have a family that includes a 16-year old son. My son will be going to the Community College instead of U of I. Is that OK too? On the other hand you now have the opportunity to work 5-extra years if you so choose. From your post it sounds as though you're angry that the age 65 law is being challanged. I guess that's because you now want to work to age 65. That figures!

Do you go down to the streets and kick the homeless on your days off?
Click to expand...

Pitts or kids college?
Expensive house with HUGE property tax or kids college?
Maby with your infinite wisdom you should have answered these questions a little differently.
 
UndauntedFlyer said:
Freightdog: I really don't understand your post.

As you have pointed out I have retired and at age 60, just as you want everyone to do (except you I would guess from your post).

I've gotten a mostly non-flying job now and moved to a house. Yes, I have purchased clothing at the Salvation Army as you have pointed out but now that I'm working I'm able to buy most things at Walmart. Is that OK with you?

My post #39 is part of a press release that sez the age 60/65 law is being challenged. So what's your problem?

You have everything, I'm a beaten man. Beaten by you, the FAA, your "get out of my seat" colleagues and your Union. Please keep in mind that all the while I still have a family that includes a 16-year old son. My son will be going to the Community College instead of U of I. Is that OK too? On the other hand you now have the opportunity to work 5-extra years if you so choose. From your post it sounds as though you're angry that the age 65 law is being challanged. I guess that's because you now want to work to age 65. That figures!

Do you go down to the streets and kick the homeless on your days off?
Click to expand...

Undaunted- It can be argued that there has been only one constant, one guarantee, only one certain outcome in your entire career. And that is that you would retire the day you turned sixty.

Our "get out of my seat" colleagues?! What?! I just don't understand how this event (your retirement) managed to sneak up on anyone.

One of my sim instructors along the way was a guy who was on the brink of upgrade at a major airline when he had a seizure. After 2 years of tests, none of which found anything, he was on the verge of having his medical reinstated. He then had another seizure. His medical was revoked FOR LIFE. He has never found a cause and has never had another seizure. Now here's a guy who was "robbed of his career". Here's a guy who "was forced to retire early". Here's a "beaten man".

You retired because you turned sixty. Forgive me for saving my sympathy for my old sim instructor and others like him...
 
UndauntedFlyer said:
I have heard this before from many on this Board as well as from thousands of others on the line. It's just BS and you don't even know it. Almost no one retires early when they have reached a senior position. I am well aware of the constant complaining that goes with the job and part of that is the "I can't wait to retire and get out of this crap," or the "I'm not going to wait for age 60, l want to retire at age 55 when I can still enjoy life." Don't you understand that that is just part of the stereotypical cockpit conversation that is expected? Very few, to almost no one, really act on this fantasy. The truth is that almost everyone, unless there is some horrible commute or a personal situation at home will retire "early." I guess you haven’t figured this out yet. Your sincerity in your belief that you will retire early is so naive that it is actually quite funny to me. Of yes, I’m sure you will disagree with me and so will others from your group of young pilots, but I ask that you remember this posting when you’re age 64 and still flying. You’ll get a big laugh too.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'll get a big laugh when my B-Fund has been frozen since 2009 and my upgrade was 5 years late. I'll laugh at every contract negotiation as we fight the management contention that we "get" to work for 5 more years so we don't need this or that. I'll be laughing as loss of license/medical premiums go up due to the 60-65 year olds. I'll be laughing my a$$ off as I work 5 more years for free to recover what has been lost on the front end to the greediest generation. Yeah, you're right - that's really hilarious. Don't be an idiot!

PIPE
 
Amen Skyboy!

Unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears, or blind eyes in this case. It's all about UF and how he's been wronged by everybody. Now he's homeless, and we're all bad guys.
 
pipe said:
Yeah. I'll get a big laugh when my B-Fund has been frozen since 2009 and my upgrade was 5 years late. I'll laugh at every contract negotiation as we fight the management contention that we "get" to work for 5 more years so we don't need this or that. I'll be laughing as loss of license/medical premiums go up due to the 60-65 year olds. I'll be laughing my a$$ off as I work 5 more years for free to recover what has been lost on the front end to the greediest generation. Yeah, you're right - that's really hilarious. Don't be an idiot!

PIPE
Click to expand...

Well said, Pipe!
 
Freight Dog said:
Amen Skyboy!

Unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears, or blind eyes in this case. It's all about UF and how he's been wronged by everybody. Now he's homeless, and we're all bad guys.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not homeless, I'm planeless!
 
I continue to be amazed at the number of pilots WHO DO NOT SAVE one thin dime of their salary... with something as critical as oh, say, paying for food and shelter as a retired person, it just MIGHT be wise to create personal retirement accounts apart from company pensions. A shocking revelation!

I pretend my retirement with my company doesn't exist. I also exclude social security. If either of those come through, hurray, I get to drink Sam Adams instead of Keystone Light. But if anything should be learned by this entire fiasco, and the shakeup of the airlines over the last 6 years, it's SAVE YOUR MONEY.

The days of the rich pilots living lavishly are over. Get used to it.

And to anyone who has been earning over $200,000 annually for 15 to 20 years, and are now broke, and retired, I shed not one tear for you. You blew all your money, and it's nobodies fault except your own.
 
It's a jungle out there

Gorilla said:
I pretend my retirement with my company doesn't exist. I also exclude social security. If either of those come through, hurray, I get to drink Sam Adams instead of Keystone Light. But if anything should be learned by this entire fiasco, and the shakeup of the airlines over the last 6 years, it's SAVE YOUR MONEY.
Click to expand...

Tarzan say: "Gorilla very wise."
 

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