Age 60 Exchange - Please Use Caution

[UndauntedFlyer]

Ya know UndauntedFlyer, one would think a proper definition of "professionalism" would include having enough grace and humility to accept your victory without CONSTANTLY bringing it up to those who opposed you.

I just don't get it. I have had no victory. I'm out of work living in a trailer. I buy some of my clothes at the Salvaton Army or maybe Sam's when I do a check ride or two. If I had won I would still be flying to HNL and having a party at Chuck's every week. No I have not been a victor in the age-60 war. I was clearly beaten by the "get out of my seat" crowd. I am a casuality of the war and now many of you are too. But in reality, you'll really like working the extra 5 years. Flying is fun even as a co-pilot jerking the gear. It's all about living the dream.

You all think my dream has been so great. Well how about 2 multi-year furloughs (7years), 15-years as an FE, lousey trips including many all nighters. And finally I get to fly the senior trips and I lose my job just about as quickly.

Right, you are all so unfortunte in your careers.

So I am certainly not a Victor in this battle or the war either.

 

[BoilerUP]

After a response like that, I know you are truly full of sh!t and lacking in all class.

Shame...

 

[AC560]

After a response like that, I know you are truly full of sh!t and lacking in all class.

Then again you have twice as many posts on FI as you have hours....

 

[Mamma]

Then again you have twice as many posts on FI as you have hours....

Ouch! Right for the jugular!

 

[BVT94]

I just don't get it. I have had no victory. I'm out of work living in a trailer. I buy some of my clothes at the Salvaton Army or maybe Sam's when I do a check ride or two.

They have trailer parks in Lake Bluff?

 

[BigMeat]

UF it may have been unprofessional for someone to send u the FU letter. But thats not what got people riled up. It was the fact that you are threatening to report a fellow pilot to management. Havent you learned to your 20+thousand hours exp that this is not the right thing to do?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

UF it may have been unprofessional for someone to send u the FU letter. But thats not what got people riled up. It was the fact that you are threatening to report a fellow pilot to management. Havent you learned to your 20+thousand hours exp that this is not the right thing to do?

Where do you get this. I have certainly not threatened to report anyone, nor would I. In fact, I am pleased to say that in my 40-year career in aviation so far, never once did I write-up anybody for anything. Oh yea, I forgot, I did write about 1,000 letters of recommendation to help people get jobs, is that what you mean?

 

[PCL_128]

UF isn't Paul E. He's another notorious age-65 blowhard.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

PRESS RELEASE..."The Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act, recently signed into law as Pub. L. No. 110-135, will be challenged on a variety of grounds. Due to poor drafting and clearly unconstitutional components, the law, signed into law on December 13, 2007, presents something of a target-rich environment. Pilots will seek declaratory and injunctive relief under the Declaratory Judgment Act, 18 U.S.C. 2001 et seq. If successful, the law will be declared null and void … Obviously, the best outcome would be a legislative fix. This law seems almost casual, if not conversational, in its language. Congress clearly enacted this law with little understanding of its implications or inevitable litigation. If struck in this lawsuit, the Act will cause further confusion and chaos as courts force companies to reverse measures implemented after its enactment.

 

[Freight Dog]

If the law gets declared null and void, does that mean that all pilots who've crossed the threshold shall be required to retire until the new law has been hashed out?

Second question... how do you PROVE that you were "forced out" and not "voluntarily retired?"

This is so sad... why not just retire with dignity?

 

[Freight Dog]

Oh, I didn't read the other post about you living in a trailer shopping at the Salvation Army or Sam's.

You know UF, my heart bleeds for you.

Let's see...

How long have you been a captain at UAL?

How much money have you made in wages alone since you've become a captain? OK, let's take it a step further, in the last 5 years?

How much is your B-plan? Did you get anything in your C-plan to offset the loss of your A-plan? Don't forget, you still get PBGC payment.

Add those numbers up, and if you haven't been able to:

a) get out of debt, especially immediately after 9/11 considering your wages

b) save money for rainy day during your career instead of blowing it at Chuck's.

c) planned for the worst, while hoping for the best

you are truly a lost cause, and I feel sorry that your parents haven't taught you how to save.

I am pretty sure that the new law will withstand legal challenge, but your generation will be known as the one who has created a civil war within the pilot ranks that will ultimately dwarf the scabs issues of the 80's and 90's. Nice legacy to leave behind.

Why not try to get a job in business aviation? You would absolutely love it. Think HNL is a good layover? Wow, talk about low expectations.

Why not try fractionals? They love retired airline pilots.

Hey, look at expat jobs - they'd snatch you up in a heartbeat since the U.S. now allows pilots up to 65 (unless you and your cronies screw that up and it goes back to 60 until your version of law gets hashed and rehashed).

On the other hand, why not try to go back to UAL as a probie? Wait, I know the answer to that one... you'd lose your PBGC payments, right? Or you don't want to sling gear for one of your former FO's?

Which is it?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Oh, I didn't read the other post about you living in a trailer shopping at the Salvation Army or Sam's.

You know UF, my heart bleeds for you.

Let's see...

How long have you been a captain at UAL?

How much money have you made in wages alone since you've become a captain? OK, let's take it a step further, in the last 5 years?

How much is your B-plan? Did you get anything in your C-plan to offset the loss of your A-plan? Don't forget, you still get PBGC payment.

Add those numbers up, and if you haven't been able to:

a) get out of debt, especially immediately after 9/11 considering your wages

b) save money for rainy day during your career instead of blowing it at Chuck's.

c) planned for the worst, while hoping for the best

you are truly a lost cause, and I feel sorry that your parents haven't taught you how to save.

I am pretty sure that the new law will withstand legal challenge, but your generation will be known as the one who has created a civil war within the pilot ranks that will ultimately dwarf the scabs issues of the 80's and 90's. Nice legacy to leave behind.

Why not try to get a job in business aviation? You would absolutely love it. Think HNL is a good layover? Wow, talk about low expectations.

Why not try fractionals? They love retired airline pilots.

Hey, look at expat jobs - they'd snatch you up in a heartbeat since the U.S. now allows pilots up to 65 (unless you and your cronies screw that up and it goes back to 60 until your version of law gets hashed and rehashed).

On the other hand, why not try to go back to UAL as a probie? Wait, I know the answer to that one... you'd lose your PBGC payments, right? Or you don't want to sling gear for one of your former FO's?

Which is it?

Freightdog: I really don't understand your post.

As you have pointed out I have retired and at age 60, just as you want everyone to do (except you I would guess from your post).

I've gotten a mostly non-flying job now and moved to a house. Yes, I have purchased clothing at the Salvation Army as you have pointed out but now that I'm working I'm able to buy most things at Walmart. Is that OK with you?

My post #39 is part of a press release that sez the age 60/65 law is being challenged. So what's your problem?

You have everything, I'm a beaten man. Beaten by you, the FAA, your "get out of my seat" colleagues and your Union. Please keep in mind that all the while I still have a family that includes a 16-year old son. My son will be going to the Community College instead of U of I. Is that OK too? On the other hand you now have the opportunity to work 5-extra years if you so choose. From your post it sounds as though you're angry that the age 65 law is being challanged. I guess that's because you now want to work to age 65. That figures!

Do you go down to the streets and kick the homeless on your days off?

 

[nimtz]

I just don't get it. I have had no victory. I'm out of work living in a trailer. I buy some of my clothes at the Salvaton Army or maybe Sam's when I do a check ride or two. If I had won I would still be flying to HNL and having a party at Chuck's every week. No I have not been a victor in the age-60 war. I was clearly beaten by the "get out of my seat" crowd. I am a casuality of the war and now many of you are too. But in reality, you'll really like working the extra 5 years. Flying is fun even as a co-pilot jerking the gear. It's all about living the dream.

You all think my dream has been so great. Well how about 2 multi-year furloughs (7years), 15-years as an FE, lousey trips including many all nighters. And finally I get to fly the senior trips and I lose my job just about as quickly.

Right, you are all so unfortunte in your careers.

So I am certainly not a Victor in this battle or the war either.

QUE THE VIOLINS!uke:

 

[Freight Dog]

Freightdog: I really don't understand your post.

As you have pointed out I have retired and at age 60, just as you want everyone to do (except you I would guess from your post).

I've gotten a mostly non-flying job now and moved to a house. Yes, I have purchased clothing at the Salvation Army as you have pointed out but now that I'm working I'm able to buy most things at Walmart. Is that OK with you?

My post #39 is part of a press release that sez the age 60/65 law is being challenged. So what's your problem?

You have everything, I'm a beaten man. Beaten by you, the FAA, your "get out of my seat" colleagues and your Union. Please keep in mind that all the while I still have a family that includes a 16-year old son. My son will be going to the Community College instead of U of I. Is that OK too? On the other hand you now have the opportunity to work 5-extra years if you so choose. From your post it sounds as though you're angry that the age 65 law is being challanged. I guess that's because you now want to work to age 65. That figures!

Do you go down to the streets and kick the homeless on your days off?

Actually, I'm not angry that it's being challenged, nor am I planning to work to 60, let alone 65. I don't have anything to lose by you guys appealing the new law. If anything, I stand to gain if it's overturned and it gets reverted back to 60 since it will kick the over-60 guys out of left seats.

No brother... you're not a beaten man. You are just retired, like tens of thousands of other airline pilots that came before you, under the same rules and regulations that those tens of thousands of pilots retired before you that enabled you to advance to that coveted 777 captain seat. You were unfortunate in that your A-plan was terminated. Fortunately for you, even after all the paycuts, you were still making over $186k a year. Yes, it must suck that you took 40% paycut, and lost your A-plan but you weren't making chump change that you were pondering being homeless. If you did, then it's your own fault, not ALPA's, FAA's, your fellow pilots'. Stop blaming everyone else for your mistakes.

If you are that concerned about your future:

http://www.parcaviation.aero/aviation/FlightcrewJobs.asp

http://www.rishworthaviation.com/opportunities/oppslist.asp?cat=1


Both of these headhunters are looking for 777 captains. Some offer US-based direct entry 777 captains. Hey, why not? Re-live the old glory, and send your boy to U of I.

We're not your enemy, bud. You knew you were approaching age 60, and with turbulence in this industry that you've experienced, you should have known better and planned accordingly.

 

[wscrj]

UF, is there some problem with your son paying to go to U of I? I paid for my own degree, while working full time. Made me truly appreciate my time and my money.

Are you telling me that your ENTIRE retirement plan was your A plan?