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DAL/NWA Combination....should regional guys be worried?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sedona16
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You need to lose the chip. You are feed, no more no less. You may not like the title, but that's what it is. Delta, NWA, Delta/NWA has it's choice of who feeds it. They are not going to get away with merging without the blessing of the two MECs. Period. In short, your opinion matters 0. The mainline pilot's opinions do.

You are feed. You feed mainline. You take people to them or from them. You work at the pleasure of whatever scope clause the mainline negotiates. It doesn't make you any less of a person. It doesn't make you any less of a pilot. It is what it is. You and fins need to get it through noggins. The lists were not merged because they were not required to be merged. Even in Comair's own contract, subsidiaries were allowed to exist without a list merger. I'm sure that ASA language had similar language. Operational integration is more than just little bottles of water and napkins. it is more than Delta flight control picking up a phone and asking ASA flight control if they could spare a flight. While little bottles of water and napkins with a widget may be sufficient enough in your little mind to entitle you to the benefits and equipment Delta pilots have, it indeed is not, as settled in court.

Get over it. You are feed. Delta can go anywhere for feed. Delta cannot go anywhere for mainline service. They must go through the Delta pilot work force

All Delta flying belongs to the Delta pilots with noted exceptions as dictated by the Delta PWA. That PWA gets renegotiated and is subject to more Delta owned flying or less Delta flying. You have no control over it. The Delta pilots do.

Deal with it. it is your lot in life, until you choose to go elsewhere.

And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?

Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.
 
The dispute has always been about who should pay the tab for buying it from management.

Some of us believed the cost should be borne by all parties. Your comrades in the RJDC thought the mainline guys should bear the total cost in the interest of "unity".
Small point of consideration:

Wasn't Scope given away by mainline pilots?

So, to fix the problem, shouldn't mainline pilots bear the "majority" of the cost?

Just a thought... I'm no longer a regional guy so I have no dog in the fight, and I always said a staple would be fine, as long as everyone was back on one list, but that's about all that the regional pilots can AFFORD to pay - their seniority.

I'm sure I'll get roasted for throwing this out there by guys who expect regional pilots to actually take a pay cut to finance something that mainline pilots gave away for more bennies years ago...

It's a double-edged sword. If the senior guys refuse to help bridge the gap and create a way to make it work, the regional pilots will continue to fly for low wages. If the senior guys take the brunt of the cost of re-integrating a list, then the top guys won't see a pay raise for 5-10 years in all likelihood, although these are the guys who benefited (in the short-term) from scope relief anyway.

Pandora's box is open... I don't think you can get enough people on the same page long enough to close it again.
 

You stand to break $100k this year...until your 3 ATR flights a day to East Bumblef-ck get synergized to one (mainline) DC-9 a day.

I'll put my pay check up against yours that that doesn't happen. Delta and Eastern used to fly DC-9s from ATL to "East Bumblefu_k". Also Macon, Columbus, Augusta, etc. Didn't work out so good.
 
The point is that John Pennekamp's decision (if he has made a decision) to stay at a "regional" has financial legitimacy when compared with the Legacy he was most interested in.

I did indeed choose not to pursue NWA because financially it wasn't worth it, and as a company organization, it isn't much different from ASA. Bigger airplanes, same clusterf*** management and crappy QOL. I went ahead and interviewed anyhow, though, and had a good time making them squirm with questions about Compass. I have no other current apps in at other airlines. With the economy in its current state, and mergers on the horizon, I'm much better off keeping my "commuter" seniority than becoming mainline furlough fodder.

Instead, I'm going to hang at ASA and go back to school to pursue a different career field outside of aviation.
 
Why would they do that? Serious question.

To stop the erosion of their flying due to management leveraging scope concessions for more and larger RJs, and then whipsawing everyone with the pay rates, and placing downward pressure on everyone. Once again, all Delta flying will be performed by Delta Pilots.
 
And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?

Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

Why do you take your job so personally? Jabs at the regionals and animosity at what they have made of this profession are not jabs at you. These jabs however are reasonable, understandable, and rooted in historical fact.

If you want to make a career of the regionals - go ahead, more power to you. It reminds me though of another industry group that has always tried to make a career out of what was never meant to be more than a job. I'll give you one guess who that group is. They often carry a similar chip on their shoulder as well as a ferocious inferiority complex.

PIPE
 
I'll put my pay check up against yours that that doesn't happen. Delta and Eastern used to fly DC-9s from ATL to "East Bumblefu_k". Also Macon, Columbus, Augusta, etc. Didn't work out so good.

Bro, I'd say your paycheck is already riding on that assumption--whether I bet you or not.

The industry is in a slightly different place than it was with your examples...point-to-point travel is far more possible (and necessary) now with the advent of legitimate LCCs.
 
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And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.


Not at all. I am quite popular amongst my comrads, which include a broad spectrum of mil, civ, regional, majors, and even non-airline. You just can't seem to accept the fact that the job of ASA is primarily feed. You feed people to larger jets. Comair does the exact same thing, with the exact same jet. So do about 6 other airlines. The amount of work doled out to you and others is directly related to what the Delta pilots negotiate in their contract. Delta pilots negotiate, on a regular basis how much work you get. It is no more or no less than that. Your ego can't seem to understand that you are in a support role. Just because you cannot accept it, does not make it so. No amount of breath holding, blame casting on Delta pilots, topic switching, foot stomping, or fit throwing on flightinfo is going to change that fact.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?


Sure, could happen. If so, skywest pilots would just pick up the slack. BTW, no where did I say that you were insignificant. Feed is VERY significant. Without feed, we don't make money. At the same time, we could provide our own feed. There is nothing contractually against Delta pilots doing 100% of Delta flying. There would also be nothing precluding Delta pilots from actually putting 100% of Delta flying in our contract. You cannot say the same thing.


Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

This is where you are incorrect, and where your inexperience shows. First of all, there is no ever was, any way of legally putting you on our list. Never had to be done legally, probably never will. Compare that to NWA pilots. If the companies merge, they will have to legally be a part of a combined list with us according to our contract. Even if we desired to put you on our list, there would be a cost that would have to be borne. An easier strategy for Delta is to merely have multiple agreements with multiple carriers. This ensures that you as a single pilot group never have enough leverage to do significant damage to Delta's overall structure. As far as controlling you, I never said that nor do I think that. What my pilot group DOES control is the amount of flying that gets subcontracted, and it would appear as if one of those subcontractors is about to become one of us and us one of them. That increases leverage even more on our side of the fence. Feel free to argue, I just suggest that you accept your reality so that you may appear more rationale.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

No doubt that Delta will cease to exist some day. If that happens, circumstances usually exist, as they did with the aforementioned airlines whereas those pilots manage to find decent jobs paying a wage similar to what you are making right now. IOW, the vast majority of those pilots were assimilated, found jobs elsewhere, started successful businesses. We have several of them here at Delta.

Now, here is another no doubt: ASA will be gone some day as well.

Some of us have already been at your job, and we will stay where we are. You want to stay where you are. Fine. Just realize your place in the world, and you be much less bitter.
 
I did indeed choose not to pursue NWA because financially it wasn't worth it, and as a company organization, it isn't much different from ASA. Bigger airplanes, same clusterf*** management and crappy QOL. I went ahead and interviewed anyhow, though, and had a good time making them squirm with questions about Compass.
Yeah, right....NWA is so bad/screwed up/not worth it that you "went ahead and interviewed anyhow" just so you could make HR folks who are not affected by Compass in any way "squirm".

Sounds like somebody needs a new hobby.

Or could it be that your opinions of NWA were formed AFTER you were turned down in the interview. Gee, I wonder.......
 
And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.


Not at all. I am quite popular amongst my comrads, which include a broad spectrum of mil, civ, regional, majors, and even non-airline. You just can't seem to accept the fact that the job of ASA is primarily feed. You feed people to larger jets. Comair does the exact same thing, with the exact same jet. So do about 6 other airlines. The amount of work doled out to you and others is directly related to what the Delta pilots negotiate in their contract. Delta pilots negotiate, on a regular basis how much work you get. It is no more or no less than that. Your ego can't seem to understand that you are in a support role. Just because you cannot accept it, does not make it so. No amount of breath holding, blame casting on Delta pilots, topic switching, foot stomping, or fit throwing on flightinfo is going to change that fact.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?


Sure, could happen. If so, skywest pilots would just pick up the slack. BTW, no where did I say that you were insignificant. Feed is VERY significant. Without feed, we don't make money. At the same time, we could provide our own feed. There is nothing contractually against Delta pilots doing 100% of Delta flying. There would also be nothing precluding Delta pilots from actually putting 100% of Delta flying in our contract. You cannot say the same thing.


Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

This is where you are incorrect, and where your inexperience shows. First of all, there is no ever was, any way of legally putting you on our list. Never had to be done legally, probably never will. Compare that to NWA pilots. If the companies merge, they will have to legally be a part of a combined list with us according to our contract. Even if we desired to put you on our list, there would be a cost that would have to be borne. An easier strategy for Delta is to merely have multiple agreements with multiple carriers. This ensures that you as a single pilot group never have enough leverage to do significant damage to Delta's overall structure. As far as controlling you, I never said that nor do I think that. What my pilot group DOES control is the amount of flying that gets subcontracted, and it would appear as if one of those subcontractors is about to become one of us and us one of them. That increases leverage even more on our side of the fence. Feel free to argue, I just suggest that you accept your reality so that you may appear more rationale.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

No doubt that Delta will cease to exist some day. If that happens, circumstances usually exist, as they did with the aforementioned airlines whereas those pilots manage to find decent jobs paying a wage similar to what you are making right now. IOW, the vast majority of those pilots were assimilated, found jobs elsewhere, started successful businesses. We have several of them here at Delta.

Now, here is another no doubt: ASA will be gone some day as well.

Some of us have already been at your job, and we will stay where we are. You want to stay where you are. Fine. Just realize your place in the world, and you be much less bitter.

I accept your apology.
 
Yeah, right....NWA is so bad/screwed up/not worth it that you "went ahead and interviewed anyhow" just so you could make HR folks who are not affected by Compass in any way "squirm".

Sounds like somebody needs a new hobby.

Or could it be that your opinions of NWA were formed AFTER you were turned down in the interview. Gee, I wonder.......

No, I already had it scheduled and figured, "what the hell, interview experience". Besides, I'd never flown a 747 sim before. It was fun. I decided I didn't want to work there when we showed up at NATCO and nobody knew who we were or what was going on. That combined with my adventure I had the night before when I got to the hotel they had told me to go to and found I had no reservation. Same crap at ASA... left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. So yeah, I interviewed them. My attitude was "why should I take a $50,000 pay cut for 4 years to come work for you? Why is your company so great"?

If I seriously wanted the job, I'd have played the interview game and said all the right things. But thanks for the original post. Did you come up with that one all by yourself?
 
If I seriously wanted the job, I'd have played the interview game and said all the right things. But thanks for the original post. Did you come up with that one all by yourself?

if that isn't the most self-serving, deluded rationalization for tanking an interview...whatever lets you sleep at night, man...but don't convince us...convince yourself.
 

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