Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

DAL/NWA Combination....should regional guys be worried?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Bill - Since you're the Boss - let me put a "Executive Overview" on the cover of my TPS report.

-if they are parked it will likely be after the operational integration (nobody will do anything until DOJ approves and the ink is dry), at which point it is job losses for the combined list. Even if there are fences, if the DC9 jobs go away those pilots slot in where their seniority would hold.

The issue is not the DC9's per se , but there is no replacement acft named yet.

Now a quote during NWA's last Quarterly Earnings Call with their CEO:
Ray Neidl - Calyon Securities
Yeah, just to clarify with the DC9 fleets' shrinking and you having the big jump with RJ usage. Is there some point you might back up against some restraints and just go up close restrictions with just your pilots?
Douglas Steenland
No.
Over and over again the investors asked about the DC-9. Over and over NWA management made it clear that the RJ's are coming and are not restricted.

NWA's MEC thinks they have this covered with a bi-lateral flow through (again to keep the side door for "preferred" candidates). I'm not so sure. Flow through agreements are a future promise that the airline might, or might not, be able to keep in this age of musical operating certificates.

Our MEC's and the Company are at the table. There is an opportunity to fix scope, if there is the desire to fix it.
 
I have had enough of your whining John....

Good for you. Want a medal? Just don't read then.

You were offered "into the fold" in 1999, but it wasn't good enough, DOH must stand according to your group.....

Not good enough for me? No that would have been fine with me, but nobody asked my opinion. In fact, I don't recall any official merger offer from ALPA nor a vote.

When did this flying become YOUR property?? You are hired help plain and simple......a subcontractor. When your paycheck says DELTA on it, then it's your flying.

I'd love for my check to say Delta. Delta assimilated ASA's above and below wing operations staff, why not flight crews?

You want to feed your children??? APPLY TO A LARGE CARRIER THAT PAYS WELL....listen again...APPLY TO A LARGE CARRIER THAT PAYS WELL....never in the history of aviation was it understood that a regional was a career move. SO you want a mainline paycheck??.......APPLY TO A LARGE CARRIER THAT PAYS WELL....

Hmmm. How many DAYS would it take your carrier (Delta) to go bankrupt if every regional pilot suddenly quit or got hired. and hiring at a rate of 500 per year times 6 legacy carriers, how many years will it take for ALL of us to get hired? There simply aren't spots available for all of us, so your argument is not valid.

Regarding ASA not being a career, well, don't tell that to the 20 year ASA pilots. What you mean to say is that it's not an acceptable career for YOU, a Mighty Double Breasted Delta Pilot. Oh, and I guess they told you in your indoc that you were "allowed" to call it a career airline, right.

This egotistical jerk isn't going to stand by and let you think you can post your claim to any flying you seem fit and then expect me to fight my management for it.....forget it, your kids can starve!!!

Yes, you sir are an egotistical jerk. Thanks for your opinion on regional pilots, loser.
 
Last edited:
You should have nailed him on the "PAYS WELL." Here's Pennecamp's current rates v/s NWA if he made the jump.

ASA
YR-HR
2008-$75
2009-$78
2010-$81
2011-$84 up to $104 an hour

NWA
YR-HR
2008-$30
2009-$58
2010-$70
2011-$72 tops at $85 an hour, $98 on the 757 until he upgrades
 
Last edited:
You should have nailed him on the "PAYS WELL." Here's Pennecamp's current rates v/s NWA if he made the jump.

ASA
YR-HR
2008-$75
2009-$78
2010-$81
2011-$84 up to $104 an hour

NWA
YR-HR
2008-$30
2009-$58
2010-$70
2011-$72 tops at $85 an hour, $98 on the 757 until he upgrades

Good point.

I made $78K last year as an ATR captain and stand to break $100k this year. And that's for 85 hours a month and never flying more than 300 miles or one state away. I'd say my dollar per unit of work ratio is WAY higher than Mr King Sh-t Bill Lumberg. But no, I need to go to an airline that "pays well". Because a Mighty Double Breasted Delta Pilot told me I'm not allowed to call a regional airline a "career". That might damage his view of what his career is, since I didn't have to work 1/4 as hard to get here as he did. :rolleyes:
 
Good point.

I made $78K last year as an ATR captain and stand to break $100k this year. And that's for 85 hours a month and never flying more than 300 miles or one state away. I'd say my dollar per unit of work ratio is WAY higher than Mr King Sh-t Bill Lumberg. But no, I need to go to an airline that "pays well". Because a Mighty Double Breasted Delta Pilot told me I'm not allowed to call a regional airline a "career". That might damage his view of what his career is, since I didn't have to work 1/4 as hard to get here as he did. :rolleyes:


You need to lose the chip. You are feed, no more no less. You may not like the title, but that's what it is. Delta, NWA, Delta/NWA has it's choice of who feeds it. They are not going to get away with merging without the blessing of the two MECs. Period. In short, your opinion matters 0. The mainline pilot's opinions do.

You are feed. You feed mainline. You take people to them or from them. You work at the pleasure of whatever scope clause the mainline negotiates. It doesn't make you any less of a person. It doesn't make you any less of a pilot. It is what it is. You and fins need to get it through noggins. The lists were not merged because they were not required to be merged. Even in Comair's own contract, subsidiaries were allowed to exist without a list merger. I'm sure that ASA language had similar language. Operational integration is more than just little bottles of water and napkins. it is more than Delta flight control picking up a phone and asking ASA flight control if they could spare a flight. While little bottles of water and napkins with a widget may be sufficient enough in your little mind to entitle you to the benefits and equipment Delta pilots have, it indeed is not, as settled in court.

Get over it. You are feed. Delta can go anywhere for feed. Delta cannot go anywhere for mainline service. They must go through the Delta pilot work force

All Delta flying belongs to the Delta pilots with noted exceptions as dictated by the Delta PWA. That PWA gets renegotiated and is subject to more Delta owned flying or less Delta flying. You have no control over it. The Delta pilots do.

Deal with it. it is your lot in life, until you choose to go elsewhere.
 
You should have nailed him on the "PAYS WELL." Here's Pennecamp's current rates v/s NWA if he made the jump.

ASA
YR-HR
2008-$75
2009-$78
2010-$81
2011-$84 up to $104 an hour

NWA
YR-HR
2008-$30
2009-$58
2010-$70
2011-$72 tops at $85 an hour, $98 on the 757 until he upgrades


So you're just going to leave the wide body scales out? and the B fund? You are notorious for leaving all pertinent information out.
 
You should have nailed him on the "PAYS WELL." Here's Pennecamp's current rates v/s NWA if he made the jump.

ASA
YR-HR
2008-$75
2009-$78
2010-$81
2011-$84 up to $104 an hour

NWA
YR-HR
2008-$30
2009-$58
2010-$70
2011-$72 tops at $85 an hour, $98 on the 757 until he upgrades

Fins, where are you getting "up to $104 an hour" for 2011 for ASA? I see $84 for eleventh year captain pay ($79 if its not a 70 seater). I also think it should be pointed out that third year "2010" FO pay at Delta (which is probably closer to what a merged DAL/NWA pay rate) will be for the 737-8 is $89/hr. Fouth year 91, fifth year 94. Adjusted for the extra 11% automaticaly put into a delta pilots account for retirement and minimum 1.5% raises (might be more depending on company margins) that the ASA guy doesnt get the true compensation is more accurately paid as follow: third year= $101/hr, fourth year = $103/hr, Fifth year = $106/hr.

These rates are at all time lows for Delta and should get better and there apears to be growth once again at the majors. Look for the regionals to slowly shrink and pay to stay roughly the same because they dont have the arguement of a "double breasted detla pilot" to make up for the recent 46% plus pay cuts that went into affect less than two years ago. Food for thought. I have to laugh when all thest RJ guys spout off about boat loads of money and its a better deal than a major. Even short term the money at Delta is better. Long term there is not even any comparison. This doesnt even factor in better work rules and less work overall at a major on a day to day basis. That is not to say a third year guy at a major will have the same schedule he has as a senior regional captain but it is short sighted to only look at that factor for three years when you might be doing this for 25, 35, or 40 more years for some.
 
Last edited:
Fins, where are you getting "up to $104 an hour" for 2011 for ASA?
Ran both the ASA and NWA pay to contractual max on narrow body equipment. Sorry if my post was confusing... I meant "up to" the max on the equipment he could hold.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/asa.html

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/northwest.html

Based on the numbers published here on B Plan:
NWA- B-plan for new hires is a flat 5% contribution, rising to 8%
ASA - 401K - 75% of first 6% pilot contribution (at 7 years longevity)

NWA was used since John Pennekamp's interest was mostly in NWA and he lives in a NWA base.

Delta certainly has a better contract for new hires than NWA does.
 
Last edited:
So you're just going to leave the wide body scales out? and the B fund? You are notorious for leaving all pertinent information out.
NWA pilots (who know more than I do about NWA bidding) say Widebody FO is senior to the Narrow Body Captain positions.

The B Fund for NWA is no great shakes that I've seen. Both airlines have various "soft money" options in profit sharing, stock, etc...

The point is that John Pennekamp's decision (if he has made a decision) to stay at a "regional" has financial legitimacy when compared with the Legacy he was most interested in.

Everyone tries to brand regional pilots as something less than professional pilots. Financially, that arguement does not have nearly the merit it used to - they have moved the bar up while NWA's MEC had to do what they had to do (I guess) in bankruptcy.

I certainly hope it gets better for all of us.

P.S. You have an impressive memory for details regarding operational integration. Even I had almost forgot about operating Delta sections back in the ATR days.
 
Last edited:
*Chortle*

EVERYBODY "get's it"! A few of us (Hint: You) seem to believe it comes free, like egg rolls at Wok & Roll...or that the price to be paid for it should be borne by somebody other than you.

The benefit has never been in dispute. The fact that you and your (previous) brothers were willing to do our flying for less has never been in dispute.

The dispute has always been about who should pay the tab for buying it from management.
Who's paying the cost of bringing NWA's contract up to Delta's?
 
Ran both the ASA and NWA pay to contractual max on narrow body equipment.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/asa.html

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/northwest.html

Based on the numbers published here on B Plan:
NWA- B-plan for new hires is a flat 5% contribution, rising to 8%
ASA - 401K - 75% of first 6% pilot contribution (at 7 years longevity)

NWA was used since John Pennekamp's interest was mostly in NWA and he lives in a NWA base.

Delta certainly has a better contract for new hires than NWA does.

Yeah I looked at those pay scales for ASA. So you were presenting the $104/hr figure taken from 18 year captain pay and not 11th year? To be fair, in roughly the same time frame (ten to twelve years) a NWA or DAL new hire will also hit the top of the FO pay scale quite probably on a wide body paying $110 to $131/hr at current pay rates plus the additional retirement monies mentioned which could put an FO at Delta at roughly $148/hr. Really no comparison. If the merger doesnt happen I think an NWA guy would still come out way ahead over the life of his career vs an RJ captain at ASA. If the DAL or NWA guys/gals get any restoration of pay at all this will move the divide even further. Keep in mind, not long ago there were DAL 767 FO's making $180/hr.
 
Last edited:
Sedona - you are correct. It is a long term bet and not a short term payoff. After comparing a few post bankruptcy W2's, the payoff / pay back is not not nearly as quick, althought the mainline QOL is much better.

I made the leap, but completely understand those who chose not to give up 8 years' seniority and bidding from the top third of the list.
 
Last edited:
I made $78K last year as an ATR captain and stand to break $100k this year. And that's for 85 hours a month and never flying more than 300 miles or one state away.

How is that an argument for how much better you think you have it? I think it's rather short-sighted. Heaven forbid you have to step foot outside the deep south.

You stand to break $100k this year...until your 3 ATR flights a day to East Bumblef-ck get synergized to one (mainline) DC-9 a day.
 
Last edited:
NWA pilots (who know more than I do about NWA bidding) say Widebody FO is senior to the Narrow Body Captain positions.

The B Fund for NWA is no great shakes that I've seen. Both airlines have various "soft money" options in profit sharing, stock, etc...

The point is that John Pennekamp's decision (if he has made a decision) to stay at a "regional" has financial legitimacy when compared with the Legacy he was most interested in.

Everyone tries to brand regional pilots as something less than professional pilots. Financially, that arguement does not have nearly the merit it used to - they have moved the bar up while NWA's MEC had to do what they had to do (I guess) in bankruptcy.

I certainly hope it gets better for all of us.

P.S. You have an impressive memory for details regarding operational integration. Even I had almost forgot about operating Delta sections back in the ATR days.


I agree with pretty much everything. Depending on how old he is, leaving out widebody scales and b fund contributions is not an apples/apples comparison. While staying may have financial legitimacy, there is always the factor that you will be serving a master--so to speak with regard to the major you are tied to. Those pilots control the scope via negotiations and always will revisit it in order to amend via negotiations.

In the grand scheme of things, you also have to look towards the future, and how it bodes. As of this moment, I wouldn't put any viability into staying at a regional. I think that the scales have peaked, and will indeed go down again in view of the fuel prices these days. I think that they finally managed to find the bottom of the major pay scales, and would not be at all surprised if we found ourselves with a fair raise with the onset of this merger, should it go through.

As far as branding regional pilots as somehow less qualified, I agree with you. Nonetheless, their job is to feed, and it will likely be that way always. Their future is directly tied to their major-of-the-moment. Some seem to get a little peeved by that as they think that it demeans them somehow. Guilty conscience I guess.
 
You need to lose the chip. You are feed, no more no less. You may not like the title, but that's what it is. Delta, NWA, Delta/NWA has it's choice of who feeds it. They are not going to get away with merging without the blessing of the two MECs. Period. In short, your opinion matters 0. The mainline pilot's opinions do.

You are feed. You feed mainline. You take people to them or from them. You work at the pleasure of whatever scope clause the mainline negotiates. It doesn't make you any less of a person. It doesn't make you any less of a pilot. It is what it is. You and fins need to get it through noggins. The lists were not merged because they were not required to be merged. Even in Comair's own contract, subsidiaries were allowed to exist without a list merger. I'm sure that ASA language had similar language. Operational integration is more than just little bottles of water and napkins. it is more than Delta flight control picking up a phone and asking ASA flight control if they could spare a flight. While little bottles of water and napkins with a widget may be sufficient enough in your little mind to entitle you to the benefits and equipment Delta pilots have, it indeed is not, as settled in court.

Get over it. You are feed. Delta can go anywhere for feed. Delta cannot go anywhere for mainline service. They must go through the Delta pilot work force

All Delta flying belongs to the Delta pilots with noted exceptions as dictated by the Delta PWA. That PWA gets renegotiated and is subject to more Delta owned flying or less Delta flying. You have no control over it. The Delta pilots do.

Deal with it. it is your lot in life, until you choose to go elsewhere.

And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?

Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.
 
The dispute has always been about who should pay the tab for buying it from management.

Some of us believed the cost should be borne by all parties. Your comrades in the RJDC thought the mainline guys should bear the total cost in the interest of "unity".
Small point of consideration:

Wasn't Scope given away by mainline pilots?

So, to fix the problem, shouldn't mainline pilots bear the "majority" of the cost?

Just a thought... I'm no longer a regional guy so I have no dog in the fight, and I always said a staple would be fine, as long as everyone was back on one list, but that's about all that the regional pilots can AFFORD to pay - their seniority.

I'm sure I'll get roasted for throwing this out there by guys who expect regional pilots to actually take a pay cut to finance something that mainline pilots gave away for more bennies years ago...

It's a double-edged sword. If the senior guys refuse to help bridge the gap and create a way to make it work, the regional pilots will continue to fly for low wages. If the senior guys take the brunt of the cost of re-integrating a list, then the top guys won't see a pay raise for 5-10 years in all likelihood, although these are the guys who benefited (in the short-term) from scope relief anyway.

Pandora's box is open... I don't think you can get enough people on the same page long enough to close it again.
 

You stand to break $100k this year...until your 3 ATR flights a day to East Bumblef-ck get synergized to one (mainline) DC-9 a day.

I'll put my pay check up against yours that that doesn't happen. Delta and Eastern used to fly DC-9s from ATL to "East Bumblefu_k". Also Macon, Columbus, Augusta, etc. Didn't work out so good.
 
The point is that John Pennekamp's decision (if he has made a decision) to stay at a "regional" has financial legitimacy when compared with the Legacy he was most interested in.

I did indeed choose not to pursue NWA because financially it wasn't worth it, and as a company organization, it isn't much different from ASA. Bigger airplanes, same clusterf*** management and crappy QOL. I went ahead and interviewed anyhow, though, and had a good time making them squirm with questions about Compass. I have no other current apps in at other airlines. With the economy in its current state, and mergers on the horizon, I'm much better off keeping my "commuter" seniority than becoming mainline furlough fodder.

Instead, I'm going to hang at ASA and go back to school to pursue a different career field outside of aviation.
 
Why would they do that? Serious question.

To stop the erosion of their flying due to management leveraging scope concessions for more and larger RJs, and then whipsawing everyone with the pay rates, and placing downward pressure on everyone. Once again, all Delta flying will be performed by Delta Pilots.
 
And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?

Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

Why do you take your job so personally? Jabs at the regionals and animosity at what they have made of this profession are not jabs at you. These jabs however are reasonable, understandable, and rooted in historical fact.

If you want to make a career of the regionals - go ahead, more power to you. It reminds me though of another industry group that has always tried to make a career out of what was never meant to be more than a job. I'll give you one guess who that group is. They often carry a similar chip on their shoulder as well as a ferocious inferiority complex.

PIPE
 
I'll put my pay check up against yours that that doesn't happen. Delta and Eastern used to fly DC-9s from ATL to "East Bumblefu_k". Also Macon, Columbus, Augusta, etc. Didn't work out so good.

Bro, I'd say your paycheck is already riding on that assumption--whether I bet you or not.

The industry is in a slightly different place than it was with your examples...point-to-point travel is far more possible (and necessary) now with the advent of legitimate LCCs.
 
Last edited:
And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.


Not at all. I am quite popular amongst my comrads, which include a broad spectrum of mil, civ, regional, majors, and even non-airline. You just can't seem to accept the fact that the job of ASA is primarily feed. You feed people to larger jets. Comair does the exact same thing, with the exact same jet. So do about 6 other airlines. The amount of work doled out to you and others is directly related to what the Delta pilots negotiate in their contract. Delta pilots negotiate, on a regular basis how much work you get. It is no more or no less than that. Your ego can't seem to understand that you are in a support role. Just because you cannot accept it, does not make it so. No amount of breath holding, blame casting on Delta pilots, topic switching, foot stomping, or fit throwing on flightinfo is going to change that fact.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?


Sure, could happen. If so, skywest pilots would just pick up the slack. BTW, no where did I say that you were insignificant. Feed is VERY significant. Without feed, we don't make money. At the same time, we could provide our own feed. There is nothing contractually against Delta pilots doing 100% of Delta flying. There would also be nothing precluding Delta pilots from actually putting 100% of Delta flying in our contract. You cannot say the same thing.


Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

This is where you are incorrect, and where your inexperience shows. First of all, there is no ever was, any way of legally putting you on our list. Never had to be done legally, probably never will. Compare that to NWA pilots. If the companies merge, they will have to legally be a part of a combined list with us according to our contract. Even if we desired to put you on our list, there would be a cost that would have to be borne. An easier strategy for Delta is to merely have multiple agreements with multiple carriers. This ensures that you as a single pilot group never have enough leverage to do significant damage to Delta's overall structure. As far as controlling you, I never said that nor do I think that. What my pilot group DOES control is the amount of flying that gets subcontracted, and it would appear as if one of those subcontractors is about to become one of us and us one of them. That increases leverage even more on our side of the fence. Feel free to argue, I just suggest that you accept your reality so that you may appear more rationale.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

No doubt that Delta will cease to exist some day. If that happens, circumstances usually exist, as they did with the aforementioned airlines whereas those pilots manage to find decent jobs paying a wage similar to what you are making right now. IOW, the vast majority of those pilots were assimilated, found jobs elsewhere, started successful businesses. We have several of them here at Delta.

Now, here is another no doubt: ASA will be gone some day as well.

Some of us have already been at your job, and we will stay where we are. You want to stay where you are. Fine. Just realize your place in the world, and you be much less bitter.
 
I did indeed choose not to pursue NWA because financially it wasn't worth it, and as a company organization, it isn't much different from ASA. Bigger airplanes, same clusterf*** management and crappy QOL. I went ahead and interviewed anyhow, though, and had a good time making them squirm with questions about Compass.
Yeah, right....NWA is so bad/screwed up/not worth it that you "went ahead and interviewed anyhow" just so you could make HR folks who are not affected by Compass in any way "squirm".

Sounds like somebody needs a new hobby.

Or could it be that your opinions of NWA were formed AFTER you were turned down in the interview. Gee, I wonder.......
 
And THAT, my friends, is why no one but a Delta pilot likes Delta pilots. Unbridled arrogance. I'm just "feed". A "tiny minded" "commuter pilot". Judged to be an insignificant person of useless opinion because of the airplane I fly by a Mighty double Breasted Delta Pilot.


Not at all. I am quite popular amongst my comrads, which include a broad spectrum of mil, civ, regional, majors, and even non-airline. You just can't seem to accept the fact that the job of ASA is primarily feed. You feed people to larger jets. Comair does the exact same thing, with the exact same jet. So do about 6 other airlines. The amount of work doled out to you and others is directly related to what the Delta pilots negotiate in their contract. Delta pilots negotiate, on a regular basis how much work you get. It is no more or no less than that. Your ego can't seem to understand that you are in a support role. Just because you cannot accept it, does not make it so. No amount of breath holding, blame casting on Delta pilots, topic switching, foot stomping, or fit throwing on flightinfo is going to change that fact.

Maybe all regional pilots in service of Delta should stage a week long walk out. Then we'll see how insignificant we are to you and your "career". After, all, Delta can get feed "anywhere", right?


Sure, could happen. If so, skywest pilots would just pick up the slack. BTW, no where did I say that you were insignificant. Feed is VERY significant. Without feed, we don't make money. At the same time, we could provide our own feed. There is nothing contractually against Delta pilots doing 100% of Delta flying. There would also be nothing precluding Delta pilots from actually putting 100% of Delta flying in our contract. You cannot say the same thing.


Now, back to the topic, your MEC can staple us to your list with the stroke of a pen, and it costs you nothing. Yet they choose to continue building higher walls between us (exclusive scope). And management is digging under those walls with a golden shovel. Yet all you can put out is arrogant rhetoric about how you control us, ha ha.

This is where you are incorrect, and where your inexperience shows. First of all, there is no ever was, any way of legally putting you on our list. Never had to be done legally, probably never will. Compare that to NWA pilots. If the companies merge, they will have to legally be a part of a combined list with us according to our contract. Even if we desired to put you on our list, there would be a cost that would have to be borne. An easier strategy for Delta is to merely have multiple agreements with multiple carriers. This ensures that you as a single pilot group never have enough leverage to do significant damage to Delta's overall structure. As far as controlling you, I never said that nor do I think that. What my pilot group DOES control is the amount of flying that gets subcontracted, and it would appear as if one of those subcontractors is about to become one of us and us one of them. That increases leverage even more on our side of the fence. Feel free to argue, I just suggest that you accept your reality so that you may appear more rationale.

Y'all just don't get it and mark my words, it will be your demise. We "commuters" will be providing "feed" for your successor long after the almighty Delta Air Lines has gone the way of Braniff, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern and many other greater Air Lines.

No doubt that Delta will cease to exist some day. If that happens, circumstances usually exist, as they did with the aforementioned airlines whereas those pilots manage to find decent jobs paying a wage similar to what you are making right now. IOW, the vast majority of those pilots were assimilated, found jobs elsewhere, started successful businesses. We have several of them here at Delta.

Now, here is another no doubt: ASA will be gone some day as well.

Some of us have already been at your job, and we will stay where we are. You want to stay where you are. Fine. Just realize your place in the world, and you be much less bitter.

I accept your apology.
 
Yeah, right....NWA is so bad/screwed up/not worth it that you "went ahead and interviewed anyhow" just so you could make HR folks who are not affected by Compass in any way "squirm".

Sounds like somebody needs a new hobby.

Or could it be that your opinions of NWA were formed AFTER you were turned down in the interview. Gee, I wonder.......

No, I already had it scheduled and figured, "what the hell, interview experience". Besides, I'd never flown a 747 sim before. It was fun. I decided I didn't want to work there when we showed up at NATCO and nobody knew who we were or what was going on. That combined with my adventure I had the night before when I got to the hotel they had told me to go to and found I had no reservation. Same crap at ASA... left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. So yeah, I interviewed them. My attitude was "why should I take a $50,000 pay cut for 4 years to come work for you? Why is your company so great"?

If I seriously wanted the job, I'd have played the interview game and said all the right things. But thanks for the original post. Did you come up with that one all by yourself?
 
If I seriously wanted the job, I'd have played the interview game and said all the right things. But thanks for the original post. Did you come up with that one all by yourself?

if that isn't the most self-serving, deluded rationalization for tanking an interview...whatever lets you sleep at night, man...but don't convince us...convince yourself.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom