BA 777 "lands short" at Heathrow

[ultrarunner]

Musta been birds into the engines...this happened at USA Jet a few years ago.

Have you seen the size of a triple-7 engine? The bypass duct is the size of a couple of hallways in your high school.

Sure, birds could take out this motor, but they'd have to be the size of a VW.

Me thinky it was a thirst motor...not a hungry one.

 

[Kharma Police]

Maybe the Chinese gave them some bootleg Jet-A?

 

[poppi]

mong many theories as to the reason for a simultaneous failure of both engines after a long, uneventful flight, fuel contamination appears to come out top in the probabilities list. The theory pilots propose is that although fuel was plentiful, a heavier-than-fuel contaminant, such as water, represented a minute proportion of the fuel in the tanks on the approach, so problems did not arise. During the flight, the fuel was cold-soaked and any contaminant could have frozen to crystalline or solid form. Then, in the bumpy approach at lower levels, as the fuel warmed, the melting contaminant began to circulate in the relatively small amount of fuel remaining, forming a slush that could impede the fuel flow to the engines. This is only a pilot theory and there is no positive evidence for it from any official source.

 

[viper548]

Maybe the Chinese gave them some bootleg Jet-A?

Probably had lead in it. Everything else china makes does

 

[sqwkvfr]

He's an airline pilot GIVING an interview immediately following a crash???


Well...there could very well be your problem right there!

He didn't say anything of substance.

The only thing he did was praise his crew, particularly the FO who was PF.

 

[BVT94]

Someone at Boeing must know something or all T7's would have been grounded by now.

 

[the turtle]

I'm in groundschool on the triple right now and if there is a weak point, it's the main electrical switching bus...how that would come into play here, i don't know, they have fried before, usually on a power transfer..but it's possible.

seems too perfect to have that happen at a 2 mile final, though...

better to blame the Chinese

 

[SoberIrishman]

I'm not a 777 driver (I wish!), but I presume if you're on battery power only, there has to be a means of communication between the power levers and the ECU/FCU commanding fuel supply to the motors?

My bet is that the only way to kill these 777 engines is either to stop giving them fuel, give them bad fuel, or stuff them up with a herd of flying wildebeests!

Just like the NTSB, the AAIB will find the answer sure enough. Will be very interesting to find out. It sure would be bad if the crew ends up taking the hit, and I hope for their sakes this is not the case.

Best thing of course is that no serious injuries resulted from this incident, and what a testament to the strength of the Boeing product!

 

[Formula 1]

The APU inlet door was open and that seems to indicate that they indeed had a loss of AC power.
The "automation" doesn't work with battery power only, the A/T droped off line when this happaned (A/P too) the A/T demanding more power was most likelly just prior of the GEN's going off line as the N2 started to drop

If the power dropped off line and there was no power to operate the Autothrottle System, then how could they advance forward to command more power as the pilots described? Unless the engines still provided enough rotation to maintain residual power to every thing. If that was the case then why did and of passengers notice the emergency lighting come on before impact? The passengers interviewed claimed every was normal till impact. Some thought it was just a very hard landing.

Maybe one of the engine generators was MEL'd and they had to run the APU for the entire flight for the requirements of the MEL and thats why the APU door was opened.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Forgive my ignorance, but does manually advancing the power levers over-ride the AT's in any way, even temporarily? Seems like it should be designed that way just in case.

 

[whymeworry?]

Whatever, this is a grave situation for us all if indeed the motors just quit.

For the sake of our industry, I hope it was fuel starvation.

 

[Formula 1]

Forgive my ignorance, but does manually advancing the power levers over-ride the AT's in any way, even temporarily? Seems like it should be designed that way just in case.

Yes it dose. I think they waited to long to advance the thrust levers.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Too much MSG in the mongolian stir fry must be the answer then!

 

[PCL_128]

Yes it dose. I think they waited to long to advance the thrust levers.

And I think you're talking out of your ass because you don't have a clue what happened on that airplane. Why are some of you so quick to throw fellow pilots under the bus?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Forgive my ignorance, but does manually advancing the power levers over-ride the AT's in any way, even temporarily? Seems like it should be designed that way just in case.

When a Boeing Autothrottle commands an engine response, the thrust lever is moved just like they are manually being moved. Thus, the Thrust Levers were moved by the A/T's and the engines did not respond. The pilots likely noticed that the aircraft was getting behind on speed, probably cursed the autothrottles and grabbed the T/L's. Again... no response from the engines. Cheerio and great job to the crew.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

If the power dropped off line and there was no power to operate the Autothrottle System, then how could they advance forward to command more power as the pilots described? Unless the engines still provided enough rotation to maintain residual power to every thing. If that was the case then why did and of passengers notice the emergency lighting come on before impact?

You don't know much about systems do you? Are you a pilot? I'm starting to think you are a poser

Generators stay on line at an N2 setting just bellow ground idle, they will not come off line until the N2's drop bellow this %of N2 wich is much lower than the flight idle setting. If the engines quit, the generators would have being powering the A/T system and the drop of N2 would signal the A/T to add power.(the engines are dead but during this period while the N2's are droping, there is still AC power on the A/C) Once the N2 would drop bellow the ground idle setting (well bellow the flight idle setting.) at that point is when the emergency lights would come on and the APU autostart would kick in.

So now the Gen was deffered Hum?

 

[ruhroa]

hate to say it but starting to think they ran it out of gas....................................................... unfortunately we may see the captain go from hero to unemployed with a lot of splainin to do very quickly.......................... no i don't know the aircraft but i have been around long enough to know thay extra, extra fuel is usually not carried

 

[WSurf]

Well, usually when there's a crash and no fire = no gas.

 

[Some guy]

If the power dropped off line and there was no power to operate the Autothrottle System, then how could they advance forward to command more power as the pilots described? Unless the engines still provided enough rotation to maintain residual power to every thing. If that was the case then why did and of passengers notice the emergency lighting come on before impact? The passengers interviewed claimed every was normal till impact. Some thought it was just a very hard landing.

Typically, if there is total electrical power failure on an aircraft with FADEC controlled engines, the engines are designed to operate at a certain speed...I can't think of the correct terminology at the moment as I only have 1 eye half open and trying to get the coffee going.
SG

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Typically, if there is total electrical power failure on an aircraft with FADEC controlled engines, the engines are designed to operate at a certain speed...I can't think of the correct terminology at the moment as I only have 1 eye half open and trying to get the coffee going.
SG

PMAs on the EMB-145 = Permanent Magnetic Alternators which run at operate at/above 10% N2. Also power the the Thrust select buttons. FADECs are on Essential power. That and the automatic icing system are good reasons to praise the Brazilians.

Since everyone lived and the FDR was easily attained, I can't imagine it'd take very long to discover the problem unless Boeing is sliding some serious cash underneath the table. Also curious to see if there are any BS lawsuits like in the states here that come out of this. Maybe John Edwards should apply for British citizenship.