Airline Mergers, scope and one list

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Mergers, Scope and One List

When management comes to their pilots to resolve the items opened up by mergers, why not use this as an opportunity to establish more effective scope by bringing the wholly owned subsidiaries into one list?

The first operation that comes to mind is Compass, which is getting DC-9 replacements (under limits) with flow through and flow down rights to NWA.

In the past we have allowed our MEC's pursue policies that resulted in outsourcing, furloughs and expansion of non-union replacement airlines. We have an opportunity to do better. An opportunity involving all ALPA carriers.

At least as a table position, we need to have a scope section that reads:

"All airline flying will be performed by pilots on the airline's seniority list."​

I'm not saying the small jet operators have to go away or change anything other than Section 1. I'm simply advocating one list so that the mainlines' junior guys are protected while the small jet operators are given an opportunity to be on the team and reap the rewards of better career progression.

We all know the 100-140 seat market is just waiting on a suitable airplane to replace thousands of mainline jets. We also know management will continue to find ways around our convoluted scope blockades. Lets fix this now. It would be a positive result to the merger chaos and provide more career stability for ALPA members.

Ideas, comments, observations, anyone....

 

[General Lee]

When management comes to their pilots to resolve the items opened up by mergers, why not use this as an opportunity to establish more effective scope by bringing the wholly owned subsidiaries into one list?

The first operation that comes to mind is Compass, which is getting DC-9 replacements (under limits) with flow through and flow down rights to NWA.

In the past we have allowed our MEC's pursue policies that resulted in outsourcing, furloughs and expansion of non-union replacement airlines. We have an opportunity to do better. An opportunity involving all ALPA carriers.

At least as a table position, we need to have a scope section that reads:

"All airline flying will be performed by pilots on the airline's seniority list."​

I'm not saying the small jet operators have to go away or change anything other than Section 1. I'm simply advocating one list so that the mainlines' junior guys are protected while the small jet operators are given an opportunity to be on the team and reap the rewards of better career progression.

We all know the 100-140 seat market is just waiting on a suitable airplane to replace thousands of mainline jets. We also know management will continue to find ways around our convoluted scope blockades. Lets fix this now. It would be a positive result to the merger chaos and provide more career stability for ALPA members.

Ideas, comments, observations, anyone....

I like most ASA pilots and thank them for helping out our furloughed pilots after 9-11, but with guys like Johny Pennekamp and Jmoney on your list, we may have to rethink any "one list" talk..... Can we make one big list and another really small one?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

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General:

Important distinction, I wrote "Wholly Owned," which ASA isn't.

The unique opportunity is that you would have one bargaining agent (ALPA) negotiating with one management group. It is a chance to "take it back" for a seniority list.

SkyWest Airlines, Inc., is not part of that management group and ALPA has no standing, nor an open contract to bring them to the table.

There would still be outsourcing, but much less outsourcing. The direction and momentum of the battle would be changed in the union's favor.

 

[John Pennekamp]

General:

Important distinction, I wrote "Wholly Owned," which ASA isn't.

The unique opportunity is that you would have one bargaining agent (ALPA) negotiating with one management group. It is a chance to "take it back" for a seniority list.

SkyWest Airlines, Inc., is not part of that management group and ALPA has no standing, nor an open contract to bring them to the table.

There would still be outsourcing, but much less outsourcing. The direction and momentum of the battle would be changed in the union's favor.

I was about to welcome back the REAL fins until I read this. Turning your back on your ex fellow pilots?

Now your transformation to the Dark Side is complete, my young Anakin.

 

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There is not a way to bring SkyWest to the table. Do you see a way around that?

I would like to see a requirement that pilots be a part of the union, but don't think that could be done here. As is, it will be interesting to see if there is any support for one list amongst even the wholly owneds.

Besides, don't you know your Star Wars history? I'd have to hook up with Princess Amidala and ... nevermind a big black car just pulled into the driveway and Natalie Portman jumped out....

 

[John Pennekamp]

I like most ASA pilots and thank them for helping out our furloughed pilots after 9-11, but with guys like Johny Pennekamp and Jmoney on your list, we may have to rethink any "one list" talk..... Can we make one big list and another really small one?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Blah, blah, blah, General. Don'cha think the feeling is mutual?

WINDCHECK!

ps, As a voting member of the MEC that voted to welcome your furloughees to ASA with their Delta seniority intact, YOU'RE WELCOME, JACKASS!

 

[John Pennekamp]

There is not a way to bring SkyWest to the table. Do you see a way around that?

Easily. Delta assimilated ASA's non union rampers and gate agents in June, even though SkyWest owned us. The same thing could be done for DCI pilots.

Delta announces it's taking back all of the RJs and the contracted flying. Then the DCI pilots get to interview to fly them at Delta. We get date of hire at Delta for bidding purposes, and 1/2 ASA seniority for everything else. Just like the rampers did.

It's very simple, really.

 

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We get date of hire at Delta for bidding purposes, and 1/2 ASA seniority for everything else. Just like the rampers did.

It's very simple, really.

Well, that helps. Thanks.

Think I'll duck out now that the crap will really start flying around the primate cages...

 

[General Lee]

Blah, blah, blah, General. Don'cha think the feeling is mutual?

WINDCHECK!

ps, As a voting member of the MEC that voted to welcome your furloughees to ASA with their Delta seniority intact, YOU'RE WELCOME, JACKASS!

Hey, we have hired a bunch of your pilots (like Fins) and you have moved up your seniority list (while your airline is shrinking). You are welcome too!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Easily. Delta assimilated ASA's non union rampers and gate agents in June, even though SkyWest owned us. The same thing could be done for DCI pilots.

Delta announces it's taking back all of the RJs and the contracted flying. Then the DCI pilots get to interview to fly them at Delta. We get date of hire at Delta for bidding purposes, and 1/2 ASA seniority for everything else. Just like the rampers did.

It's very simple, really.

It's not gonna happen, and our wholly owned isn't our favorite group on the block. And DOH for bidding purposes? Huh? Quit dreaming. You and Jmoney can get that arrangement for the LAV dumping job opening up soon in Flint.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

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... our wholly owned isn't our favorite group on the block. Bye Bye--General Lee

and I think that is probably the reason why there would be little political support for One List, despite the very real, compelling, benefits.

Besides, if you dislike the Comair MEC, I can think of one way to make it.... vanish. One list means one MEC. You get the votes and the power.

Do you agree that management is going to try to outsource the next generation 100 seater? If you do, isn't this a valid first step to fix it now?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I meant DOH at Delta. Not DOH integration. As in 1/17/08 if it happened today. All of the ASA rampers have a hire date of 6/1/07 for bidding purposes.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Hey, we have hired a bunch of your pilots (like Fins) and you have moved up your seniority list (while your airline is shrinking). You are welcome too!


Bye Bye--General Lee

ASA is shrinking! Damn, they've been lying to us! No wonder we have all of those layoffs. Oh wait, we haven't had any... Oh and we haven't lost any airplanes either...

*JP scratches head...*

 

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Date of Aquisition. That would probably be acceptable.

The real first step is trying to figure out the objections of legacy pilots to this type of scenario. I'm still not clear why after all the furloughs and outsourcing the legacy pilots are not screaming for any opportunity to take it back.

As far as ASA not "losing" airplanes - don't tell me that. I lost my 700 slot when SkyWest transferred our orders and several of the aircraft allocated to the SLC flying. Within the week I updated the ol' resume and scheduled my FedEx grip-n-grin. The ASA MEC did a great job with the hand they had to work with, but it did come at some cost to the status quo fleet wise. 19 orders and 7 of the 700's; 26 jets by my count

 

[General Lee]

and I think that is probably the reason why there would be little political support for One List, despite the very real, compelling, benefits.

Besides, if you dislike the Comair MEC, I can think of one way to make it.... vanish. One list means one MEC. You get the votes and the power.

Do you agree that management is going to try to outsource the next generation 100 seater? If you do, isn't this a valid first step to fix it now?

Unless there is a BK judge in the backround, I highly doubt a 100 seater or anything larger than a 76 seater will be outsourced. And remember, guys like Pennekcamp and Lawson think they are entitled to DOH at Delta. Riiiiight. Never.

Bye Bye--General Lee