Delta/ASA travel benefits

[SoberIrishman]

Just wondering how many mainline Delta employees are aware of the recent completely "one-sided" new travel program.

My opinion;
ASA employees S3C on mainline (that's OK)
Delta employees S3C on ASA (that's OK too)
ASA pays $5 plus 1 cent per mile on Delta (not OK!)
Delta pays nothing on ASA (not OK!)
Delta removes ASA from ID 90 purchase on all OAL carriers.

Not complaining about the S3C priority, because ASA is no longer wholly owned, but the payment of $50 per year and also per segment is hard to swallow. To have a Delta pilot come into the cockpit to request the jumpseat, and then claim to know nothing of this new travel "agreement" is hard to swallow. When ASA requests same, they get "flowed back" to the cabin if a seat is open, and then get charged the fees as above, because they now become S3C!

I encourage all mainline employees to get the word out on this "slap in the face" that was handed down to ASA, and would respectfully ask for opinions from those of you that are lucky enough to be employees of DAL about what you all think.

What do the other connection carriers get with respect to mainline, can you buy ID 90's on OAL's, and do you pay the same fees on DAL?

No ASA bashing. Sensible comments please!

 

[IronCityBlue]

I think the new S3C is completely fair, as is the 50 dollar charge because don't Delta employees have to pay that same fee?

I agree that its insulting that Delta can ride ASA completely for free, but ASA has to pay to ride Delta. Insulting, but what can you do? Its Delta's flying (and I'm not talking about pilot versus pilot issues or scope; its 2 seperate companies with one selling its flying to another and then dictating the terms of that sale...arrogant but legitamate).

Now the jumpseat forced flowback for a charge is absolutely insane. That's management charging pilots to ride the jumpseat and is a huge step back. If Delta as a company wants to be arrogant towards ASA as a company, that's Delta's right. But to effectively charge you for a jumpseat out of nowhere is disgusting and an extremely hostile act.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Agreed. Have your jumpseat chair talk to ours. I thought that they were to rectify this?

 

[michael707767]

I agree that its insulting that Delta can ride ASA completely for free, but ASA has to pay to ride Delta. Insulting, but what can you do? Its Delta's flying (and I'm not talking about pilot versus pilot issues or scope; its 2 seperate companies with one selling its flying to another and then dictating the terms of that sale...arrogant but legitamate).

He is right. Every seat on an ASA flight belongs to Delta. You can't even buy an ASA ticket. ASA is not an airline, it is a contractor. If you don't like the terms of your companies contract with Delta, talk to your management, don't complain to us.

 

[jonjuan]

He is right. Every seat on an ASA flight belongs to Delta. You can't even buy an ASA ticket. ASA is not an airline, it is a contractor. If you don't like the terms of your companies contract with Delta, talk to your management, don't complain to us.

Just like every seat on a DL plane belongs to DL management and not the pilots. CAs, afterall don't have anything to do with inventory management and seat prices.

 

[Bill Mostellar]

To have a Delta pilot come into the cockpit to request the jumpseat, and then claim to know nothing of this new travel "agreement" is hard to swallow.

It's not uncommon for many pilots (Delta, etc.) to non-rev once a year. Delta routinely changes policies regarding our benefits. I doubt you'll find many pilots who know all the changes, especially those that only affect a connection-carrier.

Are you trying to imply that this pilot was being less than honest? I didn't think so.

 

[michael707767]

Just like every seat on a DL plane belongs to DL management and not the pilots. CAs, afterall don't have anything to do with inventory management and seat prices.

fair enough. Mangement controls the seats. So why are you bitching to pilots about the non rev policies?

 

[SoberIrishman]

Noboby is bitching to any pilot or employee over a stupid management decision.

The fact remains that we all are working to deliver Delta passengers safely and efficiently to their destinations. We are just attempting to get some SUPPORT from mainline employees by raising the level of awareness about how the DCI guys feel.

It appears that such support is unlikely to be forthcoming.

 

[SoberIrishman]

It's not uncommon for many pilots (Delta, etc.) to non-rev once a year. Delta routinely changes policies regarding our benefits. I doubt you'll find many pilots who know all the changes, especially those that only affect a connection-carrier.

Are you trying to imply that this pilot was being less than honest? I didn't think so.

My choice of the words "claim to know nothing...." was not appropriate. The majority do not know about the changes, simple as that.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I have to say that most do not know. Only the guys that commute on ASA would be aware of the changes. That makes the majority unaware.
I will tell you this. It was not a pilot thing. These changes were not negotiated by the delta pilots. Most guys that I have flown with were surprised when we had a few ASA guys make the comment to them when they were jumpseating the other week.
Like I said, talk to your coordinator and see if they can work this out. If not, blame the correct people. We have to beef with you. Heck I used to work there, and think it is a little tilted in one direction, it does not mean that anything will be done about it.

 

[DAL737FO]

Actually you only have the situation partially right. We are being charged to fly on ASA just like you are being charged to fly on us. The difference is that Delta is picking up the tab for us so we know nothing about it. I took this subject up with our jumpseat coordinator and the company POC also. They had hoped that since Charlie T is now at ASA that he would have your company pick up the fee for your employee's as well. So it does look one sided, however it is YOUR management that wanted this arrangement this way. A secondary part of the arrangement was that you got to keep your jumpseat priority classification. Which means although you are no longer wholly owned, you still come in front of OAL's in the priority order for the jumpseat.

Now I did get straight from both the company and the union that if you apply for the jumpseat and flow back to the cabin you should not be charged the fee's. If this is actually happening then we need to know about it so it can be corrected.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Jumpseating is something a pilot group negotiates. If you're a Delta Pilot, you have the reasonable expectation of going to a UAL/NWA etc. counter and not have to pay for a jumpseat. (Even if there is room in the back. Why then, should a pilot who proudly flies an airplane in DAL colors (contractor or not)have to pay when UAL/NWA could have the same JS for free.

Delta Pilots- please ask your union reps to inform mgmt. that this end run on one of our very basic privileges is unacceptable!

 

[jetracer5]

If you list for the jumpseat and are flowed back to the cabin you will not be charged. There have been a few memos about this. Save your jumpseat request card as proof you listed for the jumpseat.

 

[John Pennekamp]

He is right. Every seat on an ASA flight belongs to Delta. You can't even buy an ASA ticket. ASA is not an airline, it is a contractor. If you don't like the terms of your companies contract with Delta, talk to your management, don't complain to us.

Hmmm. Don't a lot of Delta pilots commute to work on ASA? Didn't you just go to S3C? Seems to me a lot of you won't be making it non-rev or jumpseat this winter as fuel loads and weight problems increase.

Sounds like a mutual problem. Maybe DALPA and pilots like you should get off the high horse about how we're your slaves and find a mutual solution to the problem. I do believe a jumpseat war would get ugly, but many of us at ASA are getting ready for one.

And yes, we are complaining to you, because your union has the 800 pound gorilla on Delta's back to get this fixed, not us.

 

[John Pennekamp]

A secondary part of the arrangement was that you got to keep your jumpseat priority classification. Which means although you are no longer wholly owned, you still come in front of OAL's in the priority order for the jumpseat.

Do you have documentation for this statement?

I'm pretty sure we lost the priority some time ago. Delta jumpseat priority is DAL, then Comair, then DCI, then OAL. It used to be DAL, then ASA/CMR, then DCI, then OAL.

And it really doesn't matter since you have to get past the gate now with CASS and such. Most of the gate agents in ATL couldn't care less about the priority and view anyone not a DAL pilot as a first come, first served OAL.

 

[John Pennekamp]

If you list for the jumpseat and are flowed back to the cabin you will not be charged. There have been a few memos about this. Save your jumpseat request card as proof you listed for the jumpseat.

ASA's Dir Flt ops (SH) sent a memo that this has not yet been fixed, and no time frame for fixing it exists. And pass charges are expected to go into effect on 1/15.

 

[jke406]

Hmmm. Don't a lot of Delta pilots commute to work on ASA? Didn't you just go to S3C? Seems to me a lot of you won't be making it non-rev or jumpseat this winter as fuel loads and weight problems increase.

Sounds like a mutual problem. Maybe DALPA and pilots like you should get off the high horse about how we're your slaves and find a mutual solution to the problem. I do believe a jumpseat war would get ugly, but many of us at ASA are getting ready for one.

And yes, we are complaining to you, because your union has the 800 pound gorilla on Delta's back to get this fixed, not us.

I'm sure the DAL pilots will remember any threat of any kind of "war" when the merger is complete, and your flying is operation is rendered worthless. Maybe you can be a feeder for Skybus. Here's a clue: if skybus captains are making $65k, what do you think you'll be making?

I have no dog in this fight, but I'd imagine your militant attitude will not serve you or your colleagues well, now or in the future. How would you possibly win a "jumpseat war?"

I bet the mainline guys are thinking, "Bring it."

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Hmmm. Don't a lot of Delta pilots commute to work on ASA? Didn't you just go to S3C? Seems to me a lot of you won't be making it non-rev or jumpseat this winter as fuel loads and weight problems increase.

Sounds like a mutual problem. Maybe DALPA and pilots like you should get off the high horse about how we're your slaves and find a mutual solution to the problem. I do believe a jumpseat war would get ugly, but many of us at ASA are getting ready for one.

And yes, we are complaining to you, because your union has the 800 pound gorilla on Delta's back to get this fixed, not us.

Wow, this is why you shouldn't let kids fly airplanes, and make decicsions. Sounds like your gripe is with YOUR management (you know, skywest, inc.)!
I think you are having a hard time realizing that you are no longer a wholly owned subsidiary! And now you want DALPA to fix it? Too bad you're not a salesman for clueless, you'd be a millionaire!
I can guarantee you this moron. NOBODY will win in a jumpseat war!

 

[79%N1]

Everybody is welcome on my jumpseat. The guy trying to get home, or to work will not be used as a pawn in any silliness.

Our gripe is with Skywest/ASA and Delta management. Why Delta needs to continue to tick us off by kicking us in the nuts at every turn is beyond me, but, thats life I guess. Take Take Take.
May I have another.

 

[DAL737FO]

Again I ask if anyone has actually had this happen to them (flow back and get charged). I hear a lot of hype but no flight numbers and dates. We can't fix a what if. We can fix something with supporting documents.

 

[regionalcap]

Hmmm. Don't a lot of Delta pilots commute to work on ASA? Didn't you just go to S3C? Seems to me a lot of you won't be making it non-rev or jumpseat this winter as fuel loads and weight problems increase.

Sounds like a mutual problem. Maybe DALPA and pilots like you should get off the high horse about how we're your slaves and find a mutual solution to the problem. I do believe a jumpseat war would get ugly, but many of us at ASA are getting ready for one.

And yes, we are complaining to you, because your union has the 800 pound gorilla on Delta's back to get this fixed, not us.

I think it is very stupid to charge an ASA guy every leg. However, your post is also very stupid. Why keep a guy from getting to work or going home just because you have a beef with management? The pilots did not ask for it to be implemented. Blame management...not the pilots.

 

[michael707767]

Hmmm. Don't a lot of Delta pilots commute to work on ASA? Didn't you just go to S3C? Seems to me a lot of you won't be making it non-rev or jumpseat this winter as fuel loads and weight problems increase.

Fair enough. I always thought ASA employees should have priority on an ASA flight, and a Delta employee should have priority on a Delta flight. I do think it's wrong to charge you more than the $50 a year we pay, but that's not my decision.

 

[Bill Mostellar]

My choice of the words "claim to know nothing...." was not appropriate. The majority do not know about the changes, simple as that.

Excellent post. You Sir are a gentleman.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I'm sure the DAL pilots will remember any threat of any kind of "war" when the merger is complete, and your flying is operation is rendered worthless. Maybe you can be a feeder for Skybus. Here's a clue: if skybus captains are making $65k, what do you think you'll be making?

I have no dog in this fight, but I'd imagine your militant attitude will not serve you or your colleagues well, now or in the future. How would you possibly win a "jumpseat war?"

I bet the mainline guys are thinking, "Bring it."

Guess it's a good thing that DALPA doesn't make the decisions on who flies what to where, and have no influence whatsoever on the decision makers, despite their illusions of grandeur. We'll be just fine, thanks.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wow, this is why you shouldn't let kids fly airplanes, and make decicsions. Sounds like your gripe is with YOUR management (you know, skywest, inc.)!
I think you are having a hard time realizing that you are no longer a wholly owned subsidiary! And now you want DALPA to fix it? Too bad you're not a salesman for clueless, you'd be a millionaire!
I can guarantee you this moron. NOBODY will win in a jumpseat war!

Weak. If you can address the issues sans insults, feel free to try again. Obviously, you're not a commuter.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Fair enough. I always thought ASA employees should have priority on an ASA flight, and a Delta employee should have priority on a Delta flight. I do think it's wrong to charge you more than the $50 a year we pay, but that's not my decision.

I'm glad we agree.

And to those accusing me of starting a war, it's not personal, it's called leverage. We at ASA have zero power to change this, but the Delta pilots do. If they suddenly can't get to work, they'll be crying to their MEC for change and DALPA will bring it. If you want to make an omelet, you gotta break a few eggs.

 

[SoberIrishman]

To all parties with an interest;

Just keep us poor ASA (and DCI guys) at a lower priority if it makes you happy, but don't charge one and not the other. And if you can at all feel it in your hearts to let us have some sort of teeny weenie little bit of extra bonus like say a few S2C's just for a nice wee trip to Cancun someday, we will be more than happy to be your best friends.

Common sense needs to prevail. Why do we always end up bashing each other when we all know management (monetary) decisions are the root of the problem?

Have a happy group of employees or contractors (if you feel it necassary to use that label), and you will ,by default ,suceed. Provide a miserable environment and you will fail, take note MESA management!

I wish all DAL employees every sucess with their careers, but encourage each and every one to put maximum pressure on the "powers that be" to treat their DCI partner employees with the respect that they deserve. Desist forthwith from this totally despicable treatment of professional individuals who have been supportive of all who have struggled through very tough times in the past few years.

Much has been said lately regarding the demise of the regional jet, and the fact that the oil price at current levels does not support it's existence.
On it's own that is true. However, consider the fact that most passengers connect to a mainline flight. If it was "point to point' on an RJ, then, bad news for revenue! Get your customer to connect on a Business Elite seat to say Shanghai, then good for you. Money in the bank! How do you get them to do this? you provide feed from where they want to go!

In order to achieve this goal, any company must decide what the needs of the customer are, and focus on targeting those requirements. We all are working to a common end. It appears that some rather short sighted "executives" once again do not see the benefit in having everyone happy and contented in their workplace. WTF don't they get?

I suspect the top brass just are out for themselves no matter what. Now that's a revelation!

Once again, Delta employees, put maximum effort into having this situation regarding pass charges, benefits and other travel priveleges made fair and balanced. Everyone will suffer in the long run if management does not "wise up".

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Weak. If you can address the issues sans insults, feel free to try again. Obviously, you're not a commuter.

Weaker!
Its a darn good thing you (much as you like to think you are) are NOT in charge of jumpseat policy, and who gets onboard! You want to start a jumpseat war over management's policy.
You sir, are completely classless!

 

[DAL737FO]

Still not one date or flight number. It sounds to me like someone just likes stirring the pot, Oh I forgot this is the FI board. Guys we can't do anything about you guys being charged for non rev, that was a decision by management. We can do something about IF you are getting charged when you flow back to cabin seat through the jumpseat flow back agreement. We need information though and not just I heard through an FO that his cousin was charged. We need a date and flight number so we can pull the flight and forward it to our jumpseat coordinator. Additionally I hope that if this happens to you that you call your JS coordinator immediately, not just run to the nearest computer to rant on a forum.

 

[Flyer2000]

Actually you only have the situation partially right. We are being charged to fly on ASA just like you are being charged to fly on us. The difference is that Delta is picking up the tab for us so we know nothing about it. I took this subject up with our jumpseat coordinator and the company POC also. They had hoped that since Charlie T is now at ASA that he would have your company pick up the fee for your employee's as well. So it does look one sided, however it is YOUR management that wanted this arrangement this way. A secondary part of the arrangement was that you got to keep your jumpseat priority classification. Which means although you are no longer wholly owned, you still come in front of OAL's in the priority order for the jumpseat.

Now I did get straight from both the company and the union that if you apply for the jumpseat and flow back to the cabin you should not be charged the fee's. If this is actually happening then we need to know about it so it can be corrected.

I think you may have misunderstood some things from your JSC (Craig I assume you mean). First Skywest Inc management did not ask for the new gate computers software that uses this "flow back", nor did they ask for these fees. Second, DCI has had a higher priority over OAL's since I have been here (Skywest) so that was nothing gained. Last the person I have been talking to had this to say in his latest email to me:

"Based on a meeting with corporate ticking and ACS folks, this is what I was told. Charges were not made in December because no mechanism was in place to do so. I believe charges started occurring January 1 but I am not certain.

I did learn that the whole program is being looked at and may be altered. I do not know any more information regarding changes.

As far as software implementation if the program still requires it; I have been given no guarantees other than it will most likely take several months to implement."



The software he (Delta management) is speaking of had to do with a change to the flowback priority which would eliminate the charge when it occurs to a DCI pilots (currently Skywest and ASA are the only DCI getting charged) jumpseating. It would change a jumpseating pilot to an S3(D?) which would keep them higher than an OAL, but lower than a passrider (who is paying the segment fee), and would eliminate the charge to jumpseat. I was told Delata did not want to implement the software changes during the holidays, but now we are talking months (if at all).



The reason you are not seeing any posts with a date, and flight number and $$$$ is because it went into effect Jan 1st and has not gone on anyones payroll deduct yet. It's coming though, and it is not fair to charge DCI for a jumpseat to/from work while OAL's are not charged....simply because of a software glitch. DAL pilots need to put the pressure on to get it fixed. DCI pilots will put as much pressure as we can from our end, but our management says "it's Delta's program, and they handed it to us. There isn't anything we can do about it."



Hope this clears it up for you.