Is Frontier Still Hiring Pilots?

[bluejuice787]

Anyone?

Juice

 

[terryhfly]

I believe that we are interviewing twice next month.

 

[StaySeated]

I don't know if the interviews are still happening, but do some research before you jump over. F9 still has an fantastic group of pilots and great schedules/flexibility, but our balance sheet is frightening.

lowlights of the last quarter:

Delayed/canceled upgrade class
Delayed delivery of 320's
Planned loss of $20Million this quarter
100 layoffs at the GO(HQ)
Reduction in flying in Dec of approx. 3%

Lynx is finally up and running, but only after draining $25Million from F9 Holdings. How long will it take for 10 Q400's to generate $25Million? The answer to that question is another question. Why would the company spend $25 million to start a holding company and then start another op certificate? Answer, Lynx will be flying 20+ EMB170/175 by 2010. Just conjecture on my part, but eventually Holdings will feed itself and there will be no more fee for departure agreements with republic, ex jet, horizon, et al. On paper, the lynx abomination isn't such a bad idea, except if you are a frontier pilot hoping to progress up the seniority list.

Frontier is a great place to work, I just hope the "great place" continues to exist.

 

[sluggo]

Frontier is a great place to work while your looking for another job...

 

[flyboy2004]

Is there any truth to a rumor I heard that Frontier is asking for a volentary leave of absense for some of the pilots?

 

[climb2slow]

every year for the past 4-5 years, there are a few months out of the year that the company offers voluntary leaves....usually in jan and feb...and sometimes in late summer...it gives them some flexiblity with schedules and staffing, and they are always voluntary...they usually go very senior as we have quite a few pilots who have seconds gigs going and can use the time off. I wouldn't judge the company or hiring by this.

 

[flyboy2004]

Ok that's cool just curious. I didn't know anything about that.

 

[USMC319]

Frontier is a great place to work while your looking for another job...

Good luck with that.

 

[sluggo]

Good luck with that.

What do you mean? Like F9 is the all-encompassing job? The opportunities are endless! Are you kidding?

Its a great place, but not for everyone...Denver, come on bro!

 

[flyboy2004]

What I think is funny is how bitter people can get

 

[AceCrackshot]

Lynx is finally up and running, but only after draining $25Million from F9 Holdings. How long will it take for 10 Q400's to generate $25Million? The answer to that question is another question. Why would the company spend $25 million to start a holding company and then start another op certificate? Answer, Lynx will be flying 20+ EMB170/175 by 2010. Just conjecture on my part, but eventually Holdings will feed itself and there will be no more fee for departure agreements with republic, ex jet, horizon, et al. On paper, the lynx abomination isn't such a bad idea, except if you are a frontier pilot hoping to progress up the seniority list.

Frontier is a great place to work, I just hope the "great place" continues to exist.

Well, Lynx will allow F9 to get some premium tickets to SBS, ASE, JAC and EGE that to date it has been leaving on the table. It will also allow F9 to zero yield a number of cities that WN now flies like ABQ.

Both being under Frontier Holdings gives the F9 pilot a bunch of leverage to integrate Lynx further, to avoid a whipsaw.

Now the Republic E170s are another matter entirely. They are currently boiling the F9 pilot group, frog style.

The only difference between the 170 and 318 is a few seats, two expensive pilots, and IFE. During the next industry retrenchment, expect an annoucement that IFE will be installed in the 170s, and all future 318/19/20 will postponed.

The Mainline part of F9 will be going to Mexico and Costa Rica, and maybe Florida and NY.

The F9 guys need to scope Republic now, or they won't have a job in five years.

 

[AceCrackshot]

oops.

Doubletap

 

[D-Bo]

Both being under Frontier Holdings gives the F9 pilot a bunch of leverage to integrate Lynx further, to avoid a whipsaw.

Exactly how? I don't see what you're trying to point out. Where does this leverage come from? Yes, Lynx is under the same umbrella but on a separate certificate and seniority list. Where does this leverage you speak of come from. If they had leverage and wished to even try to use it then Lynx wouldn't be under a separate certificate and and list in the first place.

 

[D-Bo]

The F9 guys need to scope Republic now

Too late.

 

[D-Bo]

Well, Lynx will allow F9 to get some premium tickets to SBS, ASE, JAC and EGE that to date it has been leaving on the table. It will also allow F9 to zero yield a number of cities that WN now flies like ABQ.

When will Lynx start flying to those places? It will be interesting to see how that plays out. UAL already flies A320s and 757s into JAC and EGE, GUC, and even KMTJ occasionally. Amr flies 757s into most of those towns too. I also just noticed UAL is starting to fly 757s into ABQ along with the 320s. I'd like to see how the Lynx Q400 does against the 320s, 737s, and 757s at mainline UAL, SWA, and AMR.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Exactly how? I don't see what you're trying to point out. Where does this leverage come from? Yes, Lynx is under the same umbrella but on a separate certificate and seniority list. Where does this leverage you speak of come from. If they had leverage and wished to even try to use it then Lynx wouldn't be under a separate certificate and and list in the first place.

Because, FRNT has invested megabucks in the first place. FRNT isn't going to walk away from their investment at this point. So, the F9 pilot group has something of the company's that they can hold at risk.

If I were a F9 pilot, and as I've said earlier, I am not, there are some things that need to be accomplished immediately.

1) Immediately integrate the Lynx pilot group into the union and write them a contract. Make it such that there isn't a threat of growth at Lynx undercutting the growth at F9. There is a reason the NWA group wrote the Compass contract as about the second thing that happened at Compass.

As of right now, there is nothing that stops every 318 from becoming a Lynx aircraft other than the FAA certification process. There isn't anything I know of in the F9 contract (of which I know almost nothing, which won't stop me from commenting on it ) that stops the company from painting operated by Lynx Aviation on the side of the 318s, and telling the F9 guys "Lynx is hiring Airbus pilots at X per hour."

2) Get a side letter that limits the amount of lift that non-FRNT affliates can represent under the F9 brand.

 

[starchkr]

Ace,

I understand what you are getting at, but it's not going to be possible here. Lynx is a separate company, with a separate operating certificate, so the union cross over will not work...now if they want to get their own union then by all means let them do it, but they will not be covered under the F9 union.

And you are right, there is nothing that stops the 318's or 319's from being flown by Lynx.

 

[FBN0223]

As of right now, there is nothing that stops every 318 from becoming a Lynx aircraft other than the FAA certification process. There isn't anything I know of in the F9 contract (of which I know almost nothing, which won't stop me from commenting on it ) that stops the company from painting operated by Lynx Aviation on the side of the 318s, and telling the F9 guys "Lynx is hiring Airbus pilots at X per hour."

Unbelievable. As crappy as scope is at most major airlines these days, there are still limitations placed upon the size of aircraft done by their affilates/regionals. Maybe more Frontier pilots could weigh in but I think most would find it unacceptable if for example Skywest started flying B737's in the Delta network.

 

[StaySeated]

The last post is so wildly inaccurate it pretty much sets a new standard for flightinfo.

"Because, FRNT has invested megabucks in the first place. FRNT isn't going to walk away from their investment at this point. So, the F9 pilot group has something of the company's that they can hold at risk."

WTF? Hold at risk? How does the F9 pilot group "have something of the company's that they can hold at risk" Should we sneak into the A concourse and steal the q400's and then hide them all over the country?

"If I were a F9 pilot, and as I've said earlier, I am not, there are some things that need to be accomplished immediately."

"1) Immediately integrate the Lynx pilot group into the union and write them a contract. Make it such that there isn't a threat of growth at Lynx undercutting the growth at F9. There is a reason the NWA group wrote the Compass contract as about the second thing that happened at Compass."


The F9 pilot group is going to write a contract for another airline? Think about that for second, if you were a lynx pilot, would you allow another airline to come in and write a contract for you, and the only goal of that new contract would be to limit your growth. Riggghhhtt. Lets get started on that tomorrow morning. First thing.

The next part is my favorite.


"As of right now, there is nothing that stops every 318 from becoming a Lynx aircraft other than the FAA certification process. There isn't anything I know of in the F9 contract (of which I know almost nothing, which won't stop me from commenting on it ) that stops the company from painting operated by Lynx Aviation on the side of the 318s, and telling the F9 guys "Lynx is hiring Airbus pilots at X per hour."

You almost removed your head from your arse long enough to stop typing nonsense, buy you apparently couldn't control your self and just kept on making sh1t up. The current CBA explicitly restricts not only the number of jet aircraft at lynx but also the size of those aircraft (85,517lbs). That weight happens to be the exact weight of an EMB175.

"2) Get a side letter that limits the amount of lift that non-FRNT affliates can represent under the F9 brand."

Why get a side letter when the current contract already restricts such flying? Other non-frontier affiliates will be a non-issue once lynx starts taking delivery of EMB170's and 175's. The company has dumped $20 million and counting into lynx so they don't have to continute to pay cost-plus to horizon, republic, expressjet.

I hate to introduce reallity to this discussion, other than the fact that virtually everything you wrote is completely inaccurate, it was a facinating read.

 

[StaySeated]

Ace,

I understand what you are getting at, but it's not going to be possible here. Lynx is a separate company, with a separate operating certificate, so the union cross over will not work...now if they want to get their own union then by all means let them do it, but they will not be covered under the F9 union.

And you are right, there is nothing that stops the 318's or 319's from being flown by Lynx.

Does anyone even read the contract? Lynx will inevitably fly jets, but not airbus. Go get your contract, right now, and read Section 1, F.3.

Most people were pissed about the unlimited turboprops. Everyone was concerened about the small jets, even with the limitations. But do you think this would of even made it to a vote if there were not explicit restrictions preventing the transfer of assets to lynx. If the company transfers our airbus or attempts to buy anything with more than 88 seats or weighs more than 85,517lbs for lynx than they are violating the contract. Period.

 

[AceCrackshot]

WTF? Hold at risk? How does the F9 pilot group "have something of the company's that they can hold at risk" Should we sneak into the A concourse and steal the q400's and then hide them all over the country?

I'm not going to sit here and give you the roadmap for how to do it. But there are ways.

Mostly, it is a function of leverage. FRNT has invested in Lynx. A lot. They aren't going to walk away from that bet. Therefore, I'm submitting that the F9 pilot group manage that.

The F9 pilot group is going to write a contract for another airline? Think about that for second, if you were a lynx pilot, would you allow another airline to come in and write a contract for you, and the only goal of that new contract would be to limit your growth. Riggghhhtt. Lets get started on that tomorrow morning. First thing.

I don't know what your experience with working without a contract, but the Lynx guys will get a taste soon. They won't like it.

Offer a flowback/flowthough, and create a situation where you aren't building your own ghetto in Lynx.

[/quote]

You almost removed your head from your arse long enough to stop typing nonsense, buy you apparently couldn't control your self and just kept on making sh1t up. The current CBA explicitly restricts not only the number of jet aircraft at lynx but also the size of those aircraft (85,517lbs). That weight happens to be the exact weight of an EMB175.

Why get a side letter when the current contract already restricts such flying? Other non-frontier affiliates will be a non-issue once lynx starts taking delivery of EMB170's and 175's. The company has dumped $20 million and counting into lynx so they don't have to continute to pay cost-plus to horizon, republic, expressjet.

I hate to introduce reallity to this discussion, other than the fact that virtually everything you wrote is completely inaccurate, it was a facinating read.

First, this is all kind of academic to me, anyway, as I probably won't be affected by any of this.

I am recieving reports that Lynx is off to a somewhat shaky start. I personnally believe that the fundamentals are good for FRNT and F9, but like I said, I'm not on the inside at either place.

However, I heard the same "this ship won't sink/our contract forbids it" happy talk at Airways.

Wait until they force majuere the scope in your contract and you're jerking gear in a shaky turboprop for half what you used to make.

You'll be wondering why you let the camel's nose in the tent.

The current Republic flying and ready built alter-ego carrier Lynx exist right now. See also, USAir, MidAtlantic.

 

[D-Bo]

Sorry Ace..........I'm still looking for this leverage you're speaking of, and I'm pretty good at locating leverage. I will say this, they may not have leverage now but there are ways to make leverage. Ways that have nothing to do with Lynx. Only problem is I don't see the F9 pilot group as one that would be interested in making there own leverage. You need pissed off folks for that and too many folks are too happy there.

 

[starchkr]

StaySeated...i am going to have to say it, so here goes...Potter...yes, there it is, i said it, the "P" word...stated that with the existence of Lynx "on a separate certificate" that there would be no guarantee EVER of them not getting aircraft such as the 318's or 319's, or the transfer of those a/c from one certificate to the next. Remember that point for a moment. Now there is nothing that says they have to fly them under the "Frontier Airlines" name, but that they CAN fly them. What is to stop them from stopping the current Frontier from flying to certain cities while the current Lynx takes larger a/c and just happens to fly them to the same cities that Frontier just stopped flying to under a pseudo name? Really nothing at all. That's all i was getting at. And yes the contract states certain weights and all for F9 connection flying, but it says nothing about the Lynx certificate from flying for themselves not as a Frontier connection or as another name with old F9 birds...again, the problem with separate certificates, and they knew that when they set it up that way...negotiation technique maybe for the future?

Ok, now to that point i asked you to remember earlier...with all the talk of "right sizing" the airline and the options they highlighted in the town hall meeting, what are the chances that the "leasing or selling" of a/c might just happen to be to Lynx? And for those who like to do the whole rumor thing, it is not happening, but it was mentioned as a possibility if things turned much worse in the industry for the future, so chill.

 

[F/O]

Common sense says they have spent WAY too much time, effort, and money with the Lynx certificate to use it to just fly a small number of Q400s around.

 

[labbats]

Back to the original topic, HR told me a couple weeks ago that they are not hiring and are uncertain when they will start up again.

 

[Shrek]

Any F9 pilots please confirm or deny a rumor I heard........

F9 is parking a couple airplanes?! I surely hope not !!

 

[Cardinal]

Any F9 pilots please confirm or deny a rumor I heard........

F9 is parking a couple airplanes?! I surely hope not !!

Likely for the short term. Taking delivery of a pair of new 320's Feb/Mar, parking a few older birds over the winter. [/unsubstantiated]

 

[Shrek]

Hopefully VERY short term.

 

[crudeoilpilot]

About a month ago I recieved an interview pre- screen call, it seemed to go well. The question is, should I keep my hopes up? Or perhaps my paperwork is floating across the Bennigans parking lot on its way towards Kansas. I hope thats not the case.
Really this is where I want to go. I live here in the Region and do not want to spend my life commuting. I really like the airline and the product and want to be part of it.
Or should I start drinking?
Hey I have a good job so I could afford a lot of toddies.
Inputs folks?

 

[Cardinal]

should I keep my hopes up?

Or should I start drinking?

Both. Recently hired folks went into a pool, I don't think the recruitment apparatus is operating at full speed. Ensure large quantities of alcohol are available at home, it makes watching the red-bellied warbirds fly over your house more pleasant.