Merger affect on AirTran.......

[Secret Squirrel]

I agree with puddle. It would be a tough time for the junior people at both companies. Everybody is screaming about consolidation to cut back capacity to raise prices. Both companies will continue their efforts to expand internationally and throw domestic routes to regional carriers. Two or three hubs will be changed to "Focus cities" and be a shell of their current departures.

People keep talking about the same routes overlapping, but what they fail to see is that Both companies do for example Des Moines to LAX, just Delta does it through ATL and Northwest does it through Memphis and MSP. They are still overlapping routes. They will not compete with themselves causing a reduction in combined flights out of Des Moines. This will be system wide.

Couple this with age 65 and a slowing economy, I would not be wishing for this as a new delta, NWA pilot.

 

[gearup5]

pcl 128....Obama?WTF?

 

[PCL_128]

pcl 128....Obama?WTF?

Hillary scares the crap out of me, man. I'll support Obama and vote in the Dem primary just to go against the Hilldabeast, and then I'll see who the Repubs offer up for the general election. I'll do anything to keep Hillary out of office.

 

[General Lee]

I agree with puddle. It would be a tough time for the junior people at both companies. Everybody is screaming about consolidation to cut back capacity to raise prices. Both companies will continue their efforts to expand internationally and throw domestic routes to regional carriers. Two or three hubs will be changed to "Focus cities" and be a shell of their current departures.

People keep talking about the same routes overlapping, but what they fail to see is that Both companies do for example Des Moines to LAX, just Delta does it through ATL and Northwest does it through Memphis and MSP. They are still overlapping routes. They will not compete with themselves causing a reduction in combined flights out of Des Moines. This will be system wide.

Couple this with age 65 and a slowing economy, I would not be wishing for this as a new delta, NWA pilot.

Capacity will never be cut back because there are plenty of airlines waiting for opportunities to open up. Even Mike Boyd says this. Do you think it would be smart to leave a hub and watch Southwest or Airtran come in and develop a new one?

Your Des Moines example is ambiguous. Every airline can route you through one of their hubs to a certain destination, but going on Delta from DSM to LAX via ATL is dumb, not gonna happen. Do you go from MSP to ANC via MIA too? There would not be a shrinkage of flights at DSM, rather more choice for DSM passengers--to go to a whole host of new destinations that the other did not provide. With high oil there may be a shrinkage of RJs, and RJ providers that do not bow down and give the combined company the lowest rates, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[gearup5]

Hillary scares the crap out of me, man. I'll support Obama and vote in the Dem primary just to go against the Hilldabeast, and then I'll see who the Repubs offer up for the general election. I'll do anything to keep Hillary out of office.

Ok.....I'll wait and see as well. I live here in Illinois and Obama has not done squat, other than run for President (and do crack).

 

[jke406]

Ok.....I'll wait and see as well. I live here in Illinois and Obama has not done squat, other than run for President (and do crack).

The repubs could nominate Dan Quayle and he'd beat Obama. When folks realize how little substance and how much leftist bullsh!t Obama brings to the table (not to mention the nose candy admission), they will react similarly to the "No Whopper at Burger King" commercials you may have seen.

I may even contribute to the c0cksucker's campaign just to make sure he's in the general election.

 

[jester757]

I really don't how this could be good in any way for AT. It would be like owning a grocery store and having a super wallmart dropped in your backyard. I wouldn't want the world's largest airline to be created via merger (or whatever) and have them set up shop next door. Just think of the tons of 50 plus seat RJs that they will just flood the smaller markets with at deeply discounted rates just to stick it to competition. I have been at enough DAL meetings to hear current and former mgmt. teams talk...they don't like Joe and the stuff he pulls. DAL will not make things easy by giving up routes if they have the choice - period. l

 

[gearup5]

The repubs could nominate Dan Quayle and he'd beat Obama. When folks realize how little substance and how much leftist bullsh!t Obama brings to the table (not to mention the nose candy admission), they will react similarly to the "No Whopper at Burger King" commercials you may have seen.

I may even contribute to the c0cksucker's campaign just to make sure he's in the general election.

When I say I will wait and see, I am going to wait and see who wins the republican nomination and then vote for them. None of the dems are worth a turd.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I really don't how this could be good in any way for AT. It would be like owning a grocery store and having a super wallmart dropped in your backyard. I wouldn't want the world's largest airline to be created via merger (or whatever) and have them set up shop next door. Just think of the tons of 50 plus seat RJs that they will just flood the smaller markets with at deeply discounted rates just to stick it to competition. I have been at enough DAL meetings to hear current and former mgmt. teams talk...they don't like Joe and the stuff he pulls. DAL will not make things easy by giving up routes if they have the choice - period. l

Funny thing is that it will be like Super Walmart and Super target are next door to each other. Both companies decide to merge and become super walmart. Walmart knows that it is even too much and they are going to have to combine the two into one store. How many shelves of laundry detergent can you havein one town? The two stores are going to be stabbing each other in the back to try to be the employees who keep their jobs. Service will get so bad that people will be beating down the door to go to the mom and pop grocery store. Pretty much describes AAA/AWA.

 

[easydoesit]

Seems to me that DAL has been trying to squeeze AirTran out with 50 seat RJ's for some time now. Doesn't seem to have worked thus far. Is there something different with the high operating costs of NWA?

Coming from the redtail family, I can say that NWA wants to merge before all of their labor groups come screaming for their money back. The fight is not over at NWA or DAL. Non fuel costs will come back up to haunt them.

 

[General Lee]

Seems to me that DAL has been trying to squeeze AirTran out with 50 seat RJ's for some time now. Doesn't seem to have worked thus far. Is there something different with the high operating costs of NWA?

Coming from the redtail family, I can say that NWA wants to merge before all of their labor groups come screaming for their money back. The fight is not over at NWA or DAL. Non fuel costs will come back up to haunt them.

Lee Moak stated we would have to be compensated for our sacrifices, so I think a raise would be in order, and a stronger airline with DL/NWA together could help pay for that. A lot of things were changed for the better in BK besides the harsh pay cuts and pension cuts for us(DL). Airplane lease rates were cut, airport gate leases etc were renegotiated. BK did it's job o getting rid of the excess and allowing us to start anew. Now, with high oil, we may have to find a partner that will give us an advantage towards the global economy and higher yields that INTL travellers can bring. If this thing happens with NWA, it may not be such a bad thing. If the UAL thing happens, I am interested to see how the heck it would work. Regardless, if we merge, I think you will merge with someone too. It will all be very interesting.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[puddlejumper101]

Capacity will never be cut back because there are plenty of airlines waiting for opportunities to open up. Even Mike Boyd says this. Do you think it would be smart to leave a hub and watch Southwest or Airtran come in and develop a new one?

Your Des Moines example is ambiguous. Every airline can route you through one of their hubs to a certain destination, but going on Delta from DSM to LAX via ATL is dumb, not gonna happen. Do you go from MSP to ANC via MIA too? There would not be a shrinkage of flights at DSM, rather more choice for DSM passengers--to go to a whole host of new destinations that the other did not provide. With high oil there may be a shrinkage of RJs, and RJ providers that do not bow down and give the combined company the lowest rates, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General, I realize you are a glass almost full kinda guy when it comes to your beloved Delta...but I have a newsflash...Capacity will be cut drastically compared to what it is now if DAL merges with anyone. Can't you see the whole point this is happening is to battle an economy heading south? Why would you merge two carriers with the intent of keeping the current capacity? If that was the case they would stay seperate. There are other motives behind this merger and it has nothing to do with a super carrier...it has more to do with survival. Dal/Nwa/UAUA are in no position to merge just to stay as large as they currently are. AA/TWA, AWA/USAir...did they stay the same size? Yeah...right...that's why 75% of the ex TWA guys are flying for American Eagle...yeah...and this was pre 9/11. I am glad you are being positive about it..but I seriously doubt anything good will come out of this...at least not for a few years. It will be paiful, simply because this merger has consolidation written all over it.

As for giving up capacity...well when carriers can't survive at their current state and merge, something has to be given up no matter how painful it is. Been through PIT lately? Do you think USAir built all of that infastructure to just throw it away? STL??? AA sure put that airport to use.

 

[General Lee]

General, I realize you are a glass almost full kinda guy when it comes to your beloved Delta...but I have a newsflash...Capacity will be cut drastically compared to what it is now if DAL merges with anyone. Can't you see the whole point this is happening is to battle an economy heading south? Why would you merge two carriers with the intent of keeping the current capacity? If that was the case they would stay seperate. There are other motives behind this merger and it has nothing to do with a super carrier...it has more to do with survival. Dal/Nwa/UAUA are in no position to merge just to stay as large as they currently are. AA/TWA, AWA/USAir...did they stay the same size? Yeah...right...that's why 75% of the ex TWA guys are flying for American Eagle...yeah...and this was pre 9/11. I am glad you are being positive about it..but I seriously doubt anything good will come out of this...at least not for a few years. It will be paiful, simply because this merger has consolidation written all over it.

As for giving up capacity...well when carriers can't survive at their current state and merge, something has to be given up no matter how painful it is. Been through PIT lately? Do you think USAir built all of that infastructure to just throw it away? STL??? AA sure put that airport to use.

I have to disagree with you, of course. Most of our combined hubs (If Delta and NWA merge) do not overlap, with the exception of CVG (close to DTW) and MEM (close to ATL). They will likely have to be reduced a bit, but not enough to just give a hub to a LCC waiting for an opportunity. If you think about it, who really has the most to lose in those two hubs---since all of the other hubs are profitable? The regional carriers who dominate there. Comair, which just announced another 14 RJs being parked (why is that?) has 200 or more flights a day. Delta mainline has 56. How about MEM? Messaba and Pinnacle have the majority of flights, with NWA mainline having about 40. Now we are currently hiring 50 a month (for the INTL expansion only--no retirements) and are budgeted for 600, with another 240 if we actually got the MD90s. NWA is hiring also, primarily for INTL expansion I bet. If we are forcasted to be that short, and our INTL expansion is to cities that NWA does NOT go to (starting in June--Amman, Cairo, Tel Aviv, Lagos, Dakar, Edinburough, London Heathrow, Paris Orly, Malaga, Cape Town, Nairobi, and Lyon---all from JFK only)---how are we going to do it on current staffing? We are selling those tickets right now. We put 50 new FOs in the NYC 7ER last month alone.

You ask if we can grow or stay the same size. AA bought TWA and 9-11 happened. The STL hub was between ORD and DFW, and was never a very good O&D city. Did you ever want to just "go take your wife to St Louis for a romantic weekend?" Who would do that? TWA also didn't have any major strengths by the time AA bought them. Did they have any LHR slots? Anything else? They had some 717s that AA didn't use long. They also had some 757ERs that we just bought. And, their union head had to give away the farm or risk liquidation. Neither DL nor NWA are in immediate danger of liquidation. UAL may be, but not DL or NWA. We actually could probably weather most of this longer than some of the others because we cleaned house during BK. You can't compare TWA and AA to anyting going on right now. And, USAir and AWA are actually growing, and will be starting A340 service to China next year, and are replacing old 737-300s with new E190s. They are hiring too.

Also, both PIT and STL are dying towns. They are. After USAir vacated PIT, did Southwest come in and start a large hub there? Did anyone? Nope. How about St. Louis? What about that rumored new terminal and that Jetblue would start a focus city there? They have the opportunity, and nobody has taken it. (even in good times) Southwest is removing some flights from STL I believe. So, those two cities are not good examples to back up your claim, since nobody has taken the bait and started up large operations there since the others downsized.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Citrus531]

When I say I will wait and see, I am going to wait and see who wins the republican nomination and then vote for them. None of the dems are worth a turd.

Neither are those Republican losers like former fat A** Huckabee, Catchers Mitt Rommney, or Fred I'm not really interested Thompson.....Rudi's a dud and McCain's a hero but he's older than dirt

I agree with General about no overlap if NWA/delta get married. I don't see an LCC like AirTran taking over MEM or DTW if they were downsized and we(AirTran) still don't fly to CVG...wonder if it'll come in 2008?!?

And yes, STL is a dying town...have family up there and parts of it are really Sh**ty now....don't see much happening there.

 

[slinky]

Ok something very strange is happening here. General Lee, Secret Squirrel and puddlejumper101 are having a logical discussion, presenting their differing arguments and disagreeing on professional terms without having some moron like tanker clown come in and spin everyone up into a "mine is bigger than yours" argument.

I had to check several times to make sure this was still Flight info.

I only wish every thread was a professional exchange of ideas from pilots who just want to go to work, make some money and go home.

slinky

P.S. I just hope that if we merge with NW or UAL that no one goes home, we get paid more and that after the fences come down we are drinking buddies on the layovers.