Merger affect on AirTran.......

[Eagle757shark]

I'm at a total loss. Let me try to respond to your nonsense. Ok I agree with you Delta will drop flights out of Mem and CVG and Airtran and others will pick up the scraps. I have never said your going to vacate Your ATL or DTW hubs.

what are you arguing about here again????

If your married may god help that thing you call a wife - she must of been a piece of work to have to settle for you. Your freaking hilarious one of DELTA's finest. I have lots of friends over there so I know your not the norm....thank goodness.

Max, if Delta and Northwest were to merge and they dropped flights in MEM and CVG, I doubt you would see AirTran go into these cities with any major presence. Sorry, but it is not AirTran's style. Look at their history. They would nickel and dime with 3 to 4 gates and connect a few dots but you wouldn't see major expansion. AirTran has a history of this. However, you'd probable see Southwest and Jetblue move into MEM and CVG and just expand like gangbusters. AirTran is just to cautious. I guess it has worked out for AirTran to this point, but we shall see in the future.

 

[PCL_128]

General, I'm not going to be a di-- like some of the other people that have responded to you, but I think you're engaging in a little wishful thinking here. I think it's a good bet that the DOJ would insist on DAL and NWA giving up at least a few gates and slots in ATL, LGA, DCA, and some other cities. Politicians and the DOJ will insist on the appearance of improving "choice" and "competition" for the consumer. The creation of the largest airline in the world by combining NWA and DAL will create an impression of a massive reduction in competition that benefits the consumer, so the government will want some token gestures to show to the public. That means giving up gates and slots to competitors. It wouldn't be a massive sale of gates and slots, but you wouldn't be able to hold on to absolutely everything. I don't think any furloughs or downsizing would result, as resources would just be moved to other markets, but I think you're dreaming if you believe that you'll be able to hold on to everything in the big markets.

 

[General Lee]

General, I'm not going to be a di-- like some of the other people that have responded to you, but I think you're engaging in a little wishful thinking here. I think it's a good bet that the DOJ would insist on DAL and NWA giving up at least a few gates and slots in ATL, LGA, DCA, and some other cities. Politicians and the DOJ will insist on the appearance of improving "choice" and "competition" for the consumer. The creation of the largest airline in the world by combining NWA and DAL will create an impression of a massive reduction in competition that benefits the consumer, so the government will want some token gestures to show to the public. That means giving up gates and slots to competitors. It wouldn't be a massive sale of gates and slots, but you wouldn't be able to hold on to absolutely everything. I don't think any furloughs or downsizing would result, as resources would just be moved to other markets, but I think you're dreaming if you believe that you'll be able to hold on to everything in the big markets.

The gov't would go after slots if they were redundant on the same routes out of LGA and DCA. If both airlines flew from DCA to DTW, then yes, I bet some slots would be given up. Since none of the routes overlap and NWA's only go nonstop to their current hubs, I doubt those will be given away. Now an ATL gate or two may be given up, but that is about it. Did AWA and USAir have to give up some ORD slots when they merged? I think they kept the same amount of flights to the respective hubs---AWA had flights to LAS and PHX, and USAir flew to CLT, PHL, and PIT. ORD slots are coveted too you know...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

The difference with the AWA/AAA merger was that USAir was about to liquidate. In the case of NWA/DAL, these are two supposedly healthy carriers that simply want to realize the benefit of "synergies." I think you'll have to give up both gates and slots just for appearances' sake for the politicians.

 

[General Lee]

Ok once again what are you disagreeing with???? I have no arguments with what you said...I differ on one item ----"seemless" is in the eye of the beholder. For instance a new hire who is stuck on reserve for the next 7 years might not agree it was "seemless"

I also Disagree I think it is spelled Seamless

Bye Bye TOOL

Thanks for the spelling correction. Your version of the word must be different than mine, and you can't SEAM to relate it in words. You asked if Delta was going to divest themselves of a lot of their flying and allow Airtran the scraps, and I gave you the probable answer. You didn't like it and called me a tool. That wasn't very nice, but I don't mind. Ta Ta.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The difference with the AWA/AAA merger was that USAir was about to liquidate. In the case of NWA/DAL, these are two supposedly healthy carriers that simply want to realize the benefit of "synergies." I think you'll have to give up both gates and slots just for appearances' sake for the politicians.

Supposedly healthy carriers? Why again do we want to merge? $100 a barrel oil. I doubt we will have to give up much, and many airlines may liquidate if they don't merge. That is the key here, everyone will be merging, and Airtran may do the same or even get acquired. Southwest is the only one I can think of that will only be on the offensive. And, the primary politician incharge here is Rep Oberstar, from Minnesota. (wink wink) That is if it happens at all.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nevermind

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why again do we want to merge?

Bye Bye--General Lee

"We" don't. This is to satisfy the greed of a Board which has no long term interest in the health of Delta Air Lines.

 

[Lear70]

You cannot accept that I am right. It kills you. There is NO WAY Delta and NWA would completely leave any of their hubs,

Who said they would? I don't think anyone has said anything about completely pulling out all the flights of ANY hub of either NWA or DAL...

Wake up, and actually add something of substance. Airtran has RECORD loads out of MEM? HUH???? Well, ok then? Can you back that up?

Yup. He's absolutely right. MEM is one of our hottest cities, mainly because of a lack of lower-fare options.

However, your next question is the more important one.

Have they added any new service out of MEM of substance?

No, and there's a big reason why (and a shortcoming of AAI planning IMHO - not necessarily in MEM, just as an overall strategy): AirTran doesn't do point-to-point all that much and, when they do, it's because ATL is a LONG way away to connect.

In the case of MEM, there's flights every 2 1/2 hours or so to ATL where they can connect all over the country (only a 50 minute flight). Why push for more gate space in a city that is paying good yields to go to another city where they can't connect?

Just because we're filling the airplanes doesn't mean we would if we started flying MEM-LAS or MEM-LAX, etc. You start focusing your assets on one small group of fliers in MEM, you start losing money.

Incidentally, having come from the red-tail group and watched several ramp-downs and pull-downs in MEM capacity, you'll understand why it would likely be reduced even further with the DAL route overlap.

I see MEM being barely a focus city for a combined NWA/DAL with ATL so close by. This will also allow yields to come up with reduced flight options which will suck somewhat for pax, but we all know fares and yields need to come up anyway.

CVG is another story and, since I don't know as much about it, I'll save it for someone else to comment.

JFK slots suck. They're overrated, saturated with low-cost options, plagued by delays, and are really only good if your airline has international flow you can feed into. A combined DAL/NWA might be forced to give up a few, but I'm betting money the DOT starts capping flights in and out of JFK to help cope with the increased delay problems of the last 2 years and any forced pull-back in a merger would likely be forcibly left vacant by the DOT.

 

[puddlejumper101]

I think a DL merger will benefit Airtran significantly....IF they take advantage of the opportunity. They have to take a page out of the SWA playbook...SWA has grown tremendously in their history at the expense of others. Mergers, bankruptcies, etc...are a tremendous opportunity for a carrier with $$$ standing around. Airtran would have a HUGE opportunity if DAL merges, just don't know how healthy Airtran is to go on the attack.

General Lee is convinced this would make DAL stronger and there would be no consolidation since the carriers don't overlap. This is obviously a pipe dream...the whole point of a merger in this case is to CUT costs, if not, this would not be happening at the present moment. I predict NWA/DAL merging, and then over time shrinking to 75% of what both are now. This is in a healthy merger...if they get into serious $$$ trouble expect NWA/DAL to be 50% of what they are now...cutting capacity in the system and Airtran picking up some serious opportunity. They better...because SWA is also hungry. This is what happens in Synergies, mergers, aquisitions...etc...anyone flown into STL lately? PIT? these two HUBS have suffered greatly from Mergers. This merger is not to grow into super carrier, this merger is being done to cut capacity and SALVAGE something. Unfortunately that means consolidation. Two healthy carriers would not want this right now.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I agree with puddle. It would be a tough time for the junior people at both companies. Everybody is screaming about consolidation to cut back capacity to raise prices. Both companies will continue their efforts to expand internationally and throw domestic routes to regional carriers. Two or three hubs will be changed to "Focus cities" and be a shell of their current departures.

People keep talking about the same routes overlapping, but what they fail to see is that Both companies do for example Des Moines to LAX, just Delta does it through ATL and Northwest does it through Memphis and MSP. They are still overlapping routes. They will not compete with themselves causing a reduction in combined flights out of Des Moines. This will be system wide.

Couple this with age 65 and a slowing economy, I would not be wishing for this as a new delta, NWA pilot.

 

[gearup5]

pcl 128....Obama?WTF?

 

[PCL_128]

pcl 128....Obama?WTF?

Hillary scares the crap out of me, man. I'll support Obama and vote in the Dem primary just to go against the Hilldabeast, and then I'll see who the Repubs offer up for the general election. I'll do anything to keep Hillary out of office.

 

[General Lee]

I agree with puddle. It would be a tough time for the junior people at both companies. Everybody is screaming about consolidation to cut back capacity to raise prices. Both companies will continue their efforts to expand internationally and throw domestic routes to regional carriers. Two or three hubs will be changed to "Focus cities" and be a shell of their current departures.

People keep talking about the same routes overlapping, but what they fail to see is that Both companies do for example Des Moines to LAX, just Delta does it through ATL and Northwest does it through Memphis and MSP. They are still overlapping routes. They will not compete with themselves causing a reduction in combined flights out of Des Moines. This will be system wide.

Couple this with age 65 and a slowing economy, I would not be wishing for this as a new delta, NWA pilot.

Capacity will never be cut back because there are plenty of airlines waiting for opportunities to open up. Even Mike Boyd says this. Do you think it would be smart to leave a hub and watch Southwest or Airtran come in and develop a new one?

Your Des Moines example is ambiguous. Every airline can route you through one of their hubs to a certain destination, but going on Delta from DSM to LAX via ATL is dumb, not gonna happen. Do you go from MSP to ANC via MIA too? There would not be a shrinkage of flights at DSM, rather more choice for DSM passengers--to go to a whole host of new destinations that the other did not provide. With high oil there may be a shrinkage of RJs, and RJ providers that do not bow down and give the combined company the lowest rates, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[gearup5]

Hillary scares the crap out of me, man. I'll support Obama and vote in the Dem primary just to go against the Hilldabeast, and then I'll see who the Repubs offer up for the general election. I'll do anything to keep Hillary out of office.

Ok.....I'll wait and see as well. I live here in Illinois and Obama has not done squat, other than run for President (and do crack).

 

[jke406]

Ok.....I'll wait and see as well. I live here in Illinois and Obama has not done squat, other than run for President (and do crack).

The repubs could nominate Dan Quayle and he'd beat Obama. When folks realize how little substance and how much leftist bullsh!t Obama brings to the table (not to mention the nose candy admission), they will react similarly to the "No Whopper at Burger King" commercials you may have seen.

I may even contribute to the c0cksucker's campaign just to make sure he's in the general election.

 

[jester757]

I really don't how this could be good in any way for AT. It would be like owning a grocery store and having a super wallmart dropped in your backyard. I wouldn't want the world's largest airline to be created via merger (or whatever) and have them set up shop next door. Just think of the tons of 50 plus seat RJs that they will just flood the smaller markets with at deeply discounted rates just to stick it to competition. I have been at enough DAL meetings to hear current and former mgmt. teams talk...they don't like Joe and the stuff he pulls. DAL will not make things easy by giving up routes if they have the choice - period. l

 

[gearup5]

The repubs could nominate Dan Quayle and he'd beat Obama. When folks realize how little substance and how much leftist bullsh!t Obama brings to the table (not to mention the nose candy admission), they will react similarly to the "No Whopper at Burger King" commercials you may have seen.

I may even contribute to the c0cksucker's campaign just to make sure he's in the general election.

When I say I will wait and see, I am going to wait and see who wins the republican nomination and then vote for them. None of the dems are worth a turd.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I really don't how this could be good in any way for AT. It would be like owning a grocery store and having a super wallmart dropped in your backyard. I wouldn't want the world's largest airline to be created via merger (or whatever) and have them set up shop next door. Just think of the tons of 50 plus seat RJs that they will just flood the smaller markets with at deeply discounted rates just to stick it to competition. I have been at enough DAL meetings to hear current and former mgmt. teams talk...they don't like Joe and the stuff he pulls. DAL will not make things easy by giving up routes if they have the choice - period. l

Funny thing is that it will be like Super Walmart and Super target are next door to each other. Both companies decide to merge and become super walmart. Walmart knows that it is even too much and they are going to have to combine the two into one store. How many shelves of laundry detergent can you havein one town? The two stores are going to be stabbing each other in the back to try to be the employees who keep their jobs. Service will get so bad that people will be beating down the door to go to the mom and pop grocery store. Pretty much describes AAA/AWA.

 

[easydoesit]

Seems to me that DAL has been trying to squeeze AirTran out with 50 seat RJ's for some time now. Doesn't seem to have worked thus far. Is there something different with the high operating costs of NWA?

Coming from the redtail family, I can say that NWA wants to merge before all of their labor groups come screaming for their money back. The fight is not over at NWA or DAL. Non fuel costs will come back up to haunt them.