And so it begins... mergers.

[General Lee]

Doug's gonna end up buying NWA for US, CAL will buy UAL and DAL will be holding an empty bag.

No, I doubt that. I think Delta is looking at NWA or part of UAL--maybe the INTL routes while allowing CAL to pick up the DOM routes and their beloved DEN hub they miss so. Look at it this way. What does Delta gain from a UAL merge? Besides the Asian routes they would get a lot of debt and a lot of overlap. NWA would merge with CAL and become the powerhouse that DAL and NWA could have been---strong ASIA (NWA), strong Europe (CAL from EWR), and a southern hub (IAH). That would be stupid for DL to do. I think DL is considering UAL so that Pardus Capital will get off their butt. Most analcysts have pointed out that NWA and DL would be the likely combo.

Also, who wants to merge with USAir? That is another quagmire. And if somehow Delta was out "holding an empty bag" as you say, I think that would be better than getting into a bad merger.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Secret Squirrel]

General, tell me a merger lately that has gone well. Somebody is getting screwed. TWA/AA, US/AWA, etc, etc. NWA is a very unhappy group and management would love it if pilots were to turn their venom against the DAL group as opposed to constantly at management. The NWA group is still pissed about the republic merger.

 

[bpapaDC8]

That cabotage checklist is a doosy. LOL

Do you think the Virgin America guys realize they are reading from it?

 

[On Your Six]

I agree that Delta would be very interested in UAL's international routes - Asia and London Heathrow - to complement Delta's current route structure. An asset sale would work in that case.

That said, I can't see how adding UAL's domestic network would benefit Delta that much beyond just removing a direct competitor and some capacity - Delta already has a domestic network. There's no strategic benefit to adding DEN, SFO and IAD hubs given Delta's current hub network. Sure, IAD is a strong hub for UAL, but ATL also serves many of the same mid-size connector markets for Delta. International routes (Asia and LHR) would be very valuable. Fortunately, merging with NWA could also provide the needed Asian routes.

 

[jke406]

Doug's gonna end up buying NWA for US, CAL will buy UAL and DAL will be holding an empty bag.

speaking of an empty bag, where's Tanker Clown on this subject?

 

[crjdxr]

I am sorry, did someone say menaje a trois? I got sidetracked.

Yeah, but I don't think he was talking about the cool one.

 

[Tanker Clown]

speaking of an empty bag, where's Tanker Clown on this subject?[/quote

Hey there 406. Good luck with your merger. To me, it's like merging the Atlanta Falcons and the Miami Dolphins. How good is the combination? Delta (money loser and BK veteran) + Northwest (money loser and BK veteran) = P.O.'d people, more losses, pay cuts, and furloughs.

Any way you slice it, there will be unhappy people and money lost.

 

[General Lee]

General, tell me a merger lately that has gone well. Somebody is getting screwed. TWA/AA, US/AWA, etc, etc. NWA is a very unhappy group and management would love it if pilots were to turn their venom against the DAL group as opposed to constantly at management. The NWA group is still pissed about the republic merger.

The US/AWA merger was a seamless merger, route wise and hub wise. Seniority wise, it did not work, but binding arbitration was applied and the East guys turned into babies. The merger itself was a success, the babies of the East have created a disaster. The other mergers you have described have not worked. NWA employees do NOT like their management, no doubt there. That is where our management falls in. Most of our employees (not the pilots) love them, and continue to vote DOWN union representation. Why? They are treated well, and most (at least 51%) of the people in ATL get what they want--and the vote is always turned down. NWA employees are looking for better, and even though we pilots are cautious, most of the others would like a friendlier management, and ours projects that. NWA people want Steenland out.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

speaking of an empty bag, where's Tanker Clown on this subject?[/quote

Hey there 406. Good luck with your merger. To me, it's like merging the Atlanta Falcons and the Miami Dolphins. How good is the combination? Delta (money loser and BK veteran) + Northwest (money loser and BK veteran) = P.O.'d people, more losses, pay cuts, and furloughs.

Any way you slice it, there will be unhappy people and money lost.

Hmmmm? Both companies clean up in BK, and are stronger than most (with exception of SWA--the airline that won't hire you). Put both cleaned up companies together, and you get a really strong company. But TANKY knows better, from his desk. Slider, you stink!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jke406]

Any way you slice it, there will be unhappy people and money lost.

Sounds very much like your last trial for lewd and lascivious conduct with a minor.

In any case, maybe this will be the chance for the legacies to finally get something right. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Hmmmm? Both companies clean up in BK, and are stronger than most (with exception of SWA--the airline that won't hire you). Put both cleaned up companies together, and you get a really strong company. But TANKY knows better, from his desk. Slider, you stink!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey buddy,

How much money are you guys going to lose for the 4th quarter of '07? I bet it's not as much as you are about to lose for the 1st quarter of '08. Song + NWA is all about the synergy. Just think if you guys loose $100 mil this quarter and NWA loses $100 mil this quarter then maybe if you were to combine forces you could lose $300 mil.

 

[General Lee]

Hey buddy,

How much money are you guys going to lose for the 4th quarter of '07? I bet it's not as much as you are about to lose for the 1st quarter of '08. Song + NWA is all about the synergy. Just think if you guys loose $100 mil this quarter and NWA loses $100 mil this quarter then maybe if you were to combine forces you could lose $300 mil.

Our CFO said a small operating loss. Doesn't sound as bad as you think, but you know otherwise...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

Our CFO said a small operating loss. Doesn't sound as bad as you think, but you know otherwise...

Bye Bye--General Lee

I'm sorry, I thought any "loss" was bad. I guess a "loss" in this case is good. If that's the case, I hope you continue to post more operating "loses." I hope they grow. Someone should tell SWA about how they should post an operating loss. Those guys I guess are too bogged down in 20 minute turns.

 

[Furloughed80]

I don't see how any merger could possibly be good for pilots. A merger combined with age 65, a recession, and $100 oil just looks devastating. What is the growth potential of a merged NWA/DAL or CAL/UAL? How much could an airline that big that covers so much of the world grow? How bloody will the seniority integration be? I think where ever you end up after the integration is most likely where you will end up for the rest of your life.

 

[BeCareful!]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Chef
I am sorry, did someone say menaje a trois? I got sidetracked.


The three you speak of is going to be America West, Colgan, and Gulfstream. They will be ALPA.

 

[jke406]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Chef
I am sorry, did someone say menaje a trois? I got sidetracked.


The three you speak of is going to be America West, Colgan, and Gulfstream. They will be ALPA.

dude, it's a bit early in the day to be hitting the sauce.

 

[Old School]

What's the plan for NWA Airlink, Mesaba, Com Air, Chautauqua, ASA, if NWA and DAL have a shotgun wedding? I know most have multiple flying agreements but not sure about Com Air?

 

[jke406]

What's the plan for NWA Airlink, Mesaba, Com Air, Chautauqua, ASA, if NWA and DAL have a shotgun wedding? I know most have multiple flying agreements but not sure about Com Air?

from what I understand, ComAir will deserve whatever they get.

 

[General Lee]

I don't see how any merger could possibly be good for pilots. A merger combined with age 65, a recession, and $100 oil just looks devastating. What is the growth potential of a merged NWA/DAL or CAL/UAL? How much could an airline that big that covers so much of the world grow? How bloody will the seniority integration be? I think where ever you end up after the integration is most likely where you will end up for the rest of your life.

Well, as long as hubs aren't closed, domestic feed will continue pretty much the same, with some regional flying consolidated probably. The growth will be from the INTL sector. If DAL and NWA got together, passengers could connect in ATL or DTW from one side of the world and truly hit the other side, all on the same airline. Delta has already added over 50 INTL cities last year alone, and there are plenty more to be added. Throw in 787s NWA will be getting, and the combo could prove a "do it all in one airline." That would force CAL to buy UAL to try to be the same, and the others would scramble too.

Seniority integration probably wouldn't be fun, but we have all learned something about USAir and AWA---becareful with binding arbitration. ALPA would have to come up with something fair, or we would have to go down the same arbitration lane as USAir/AWA did.

If DAL and NWA got together, the lack of overlap would keep the hubs and the jobs. With additional planes coming like 787s and 777LRs, along with current 744s, A330s, and plenty of 767ERs, INTL upgrades will continue. Domestic flying will maintain atleast the current size, with DC9s maybe getting replaced with MD90s or even E190s. Maybe MEM and CVG would see a slight reduction in service, but not enough to give Airtran or SWA a foothold.

Now if UAL and DL get together, I don't know what would happen. Lot's of hub closures, crying, cats sleeping with dogs, Tilton kissing everyone in sight, I don't know....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

Well, as long as hubs aren't closed, domestic feed will continue pretty much the same, with some regional flying consolidated probably. The growth will be from the INTL sector. If DAL and NWA got together, passengers could connect in ATL or DTW from one side of the world and truly hit the other side, all on the same airline. Delta has already added over 50 INTL cities last year alone, and there are plenty more to be added. Throw in 787s NWA will be getting, and the combo could prove a "do it all in one airline." That would force CAL to buy UAL to try to be the same, and the others would scramble too.

Seniority integration probably wouldn't be fun, but we have all learned something about USAir and AWA---becareful with binding arbitration. ALPA would have to come up with something fair, or we would have to go down the same arbitration lane as USAir/AWA did.

If DAL and NWA got together, the lack of overlap would keep the hubs and the jobs. With additional planes coming like 787s and 777LRs, along with current 744s, A330s, and plenty of 767ERs, INTL upgrades will continue. Domestic flying will maintain atleast the current size, with DC9s maybe getting replaced with MD90s or even E190s. Maybe MEM and CVG would see a slight reduction in service, but not enough to give Airtran or SWA a foothold.

Now if UAL and DL get together, I don't know what would happen. Lot's of hub closures, crying, cats sleeping with dogs, Tilton kissing everyone in sight, I don't know....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Just think of the operating loss they could post if they could just combine forces. Apart, they can only go into Ch 11....but together they can go into Ch 22. It's double secret banckrupcy.