Less experience showing through at Skywest and others...

[Sedona16]

This from another message board makes a good point:

[FONT=ARIAL,]Thanks for the heads up. Was just packing for my trip this afternoon and started listening to liveatc.net. The interesting thing is I heard two SKYW aircraft on final when the tower issued a microburst alert. My carrier and pretty much every carrier I have known of requires a missed approach in the event of a microburst alert being issued by the tower. This alert was for a MB on the runway of +/-30KTS. The windshear alert system had been active prior to this and most carriers are allowed to utilize guidance and continue for a WS Alert but a MB always requires an immediate GoAround. In this case SKYW aircraft both said nothing when issued the MB Alert. It was only after the tower suggested a GA that they did execute the GA. There was some a comment by one of the [COLOR=red! important][FONT=ARIAL,][COLOR=red! important][FONT=ARIAL,]airplanes[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] to the tower of "good call tower" and another guy on the ground said "not sure what your book says but our says GO AROUND".

Do not want to get into the debate over qualifications but I know SKYW has some very low time pilots. The simulator is a great tool but you have to be able to digest the information and make the safest decisions. A MB is nothing to scoff at in any type of transport category aircraft. I would not have a concern but this involved two SKYW aircraft on final at the same time.
[/FONT]

 

[chitownpilot]

[FONT=ARIAL,]
Do not want to get into the debate over qualifications but I know SKYW has some very low time pilots. [/FONT]

haha.. are you serious? Im not gonna debate the fact that poor decision making skills were at hand here, but SKYW still has some of the highest hiring minimums left at the regional level. 1000TT and 100ME, unless you already have previous jet time. And then its only a drop to 850. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think only RAH still has minimums that high...

 

[bmpilot2003]

This from another message board makes a good point:

[FONT=ARIAL,]Thanks for the heads up. Was just packing for my trip this afternoon and started listening to liveatc.net. The interesting thing is I heard two SKYW aircraft on final when the tower issued a microburst alert. My carrier and pretty much every carrier I have known of requires a missed approach in the event of a microburst alert being issued by the tower. This alert was for a MB on the runway of +/-30KTS. The windshear alert system had been active prior to this and most carriers are allowed to utilize guidance and continue for a WS Alert but a MB always requires an immediate GoAround. In this case SKYW aircraft both said nothing when issued the MB Alert. It was only after the tower suggested a GA that they did execute the GA. There was some a comment by one of the [COLOR=red! important][FONT=ARIAL,][COLOR=red! important][FONT=ARIAL,]airplanes[/FONT][/FONT][/color][/color] to the tower of "good call tower" and another guy on the ground said "not sure what your book says but our says GO AROUND".

Do not want to get into the debate over qualifications but I know SKYW has some very low time pilots. The simulator is a great tool but you have to be able to digest the information and make the safest decisions. A MB is nothing to scoff at in any type of transport category aircraft. I would not have a concern but this involved two SKYW aircraft on final at the same time.
[/FONT]

And who do you work for? Lets debate poor decisions made at your $hity regional. Come on Mesa, Pinnacle, Masaba etc... i can recall some pretty stupid decisions that didn't end as well as this one did. Again who do you work for?

 

[Bushhatesyou]

Do have no other life but to listen to Live ATC?

 

[flylike44]

you were really listening to atc outside of the cockpit? this is a joke right?

 

[CallmeJB]

1. The original poster didn't write this, he just copied from another board.

2. Judging the guy for listening to ATC online? I agree, what a tool! But play the ball, not the player. Nobody has been brave enough to address the point he was making.

 

[JoeMerchant]

This is yet another Skywest bashing flamebait...... The experience level is getting scarry everywhere.... Some of the worst examples I have seen come from Mesa..... I watch them take off in AVL on a regular basis without turning on the runway lights..... I assume they don't know about PCL..... I have watched Delta land in thunderstorms with microburst conditions.....

This isn't a Skywest issue...... this is an industry issue.....

Maybe ALPA should push for higher experience requirements....... Sorry what was I thinking......

 

[N1VIBS]

Guess I've been lucky. I've heard windshear alerts a few hundred times in 19 years, but I've never heard of a micro burst alert!! Was there a thunderstorm in the middle of the airport or something? I've seen the windshear equipment in the tower, but unless they have got some new equipment in the last 1 or 2 years (which is possible)they had no way to tell of a micro burst alert when I was visiting there, just windshear alerts. ( ATL tower).

 

[ParrotheadPilot]

Guess I've been lucky. I've heard windshear alerts a few hundred times in 19 years, but I've never heard of a micro burst alert!!

About 4 or 5 months ago while number 573 for takeoff at LGA I heard them try to issue about 3 planes takeoff clearance with windshear and microburst alerts. All denied the clearance and everyone stayed put. So microburst alerts do exist

 

[Goose Egg]

[FONT=ARIAL,]Do not want to get into the debate over qualifications but I know SKYW has some very low time pilots. [/FONT]

Nobody lower than 1000/100 or 850 with 121 time. And could this not have been an issue with the Captains instead of the FOs, thus making the "low time" argument irrelevant... that is, of course, unless you consider 5000 hours "low time."

Nice try.

-Goose

 

[Leroy Smith]

So SKW's upgrade minimum is 5000?

I wouldnt think too many people are able to take advantage of that quick upgrade I keep hearing about.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Do have no other life but to listen to Live ATC?

OK, I'll admit it. When the old lady ain't around, I fall asleep to the JFK Tower feed. I guess I'm a freak because it has a calming effect on me similar to ocean sounds and puts me right out.

I can't believe I just admitted that.

 

[Aviation Geek]

The reality of the matter is: humans make mistakes. Even the best trained pilot will make a mistake. Fatigue, work load, nutrition, health, personal distractions, anger, CRM, pressure, training and experience all play a role decision making.

To blame an airline's training program or the "time" a person has been flying is looking at only two considerations. All the training programs are FAA approved. All the pilots have been through check rides and training. And all Captains have met certain approved minimum amount of experience.

Face it, we are all mistakes just waiting to happen. And I am guessing, we have all made mistakes in the cockpit (large and small) at sometime or another.

 

[TV9Driver]

since when is 1000tt and 100m considered "high" for minimums? I guess it's all relative.

But, as a previous poster said, this isn't a SkyWest issue, it's an industry-wide issue.

 

[8HourPilot]

Not been to Denver much?

Guess I've been lucky. I've heard windshear alerts a few hundred times in 19 years, but I've never heard of a micro burst alert!! Was there a thunderstorm in the middle of the airport or something? I've seen the windshear equipment in the tower, but unless they have got some new equipment in the last 1 or 2 years (which is possible)they had no way to tell of a micro burst alert when I was visiting there, just windshear alerts. ( ATL tower).

 

[Crash Pad]

It was a normal day in Denver... THE DAY ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE!!!

 

[Crash Pad]

Double post... love the video that much.

 

[Erlanger]

The Skywest FOM section 3432 paragragh 2E clearly states that;

Takeoffs or landing will not be attempted if microburst alerts are in effect at the airport. Consider holding or diverting until conditions improve.

 

[major payne]

im sorry you have nothing better to do with your time than listen to atc.net tool box

 

[Sedona16]

The Skywest FOM section 3432 paragragh 2E clearly states that;

Wow someone actually supplied some usefull info here. The point I was making by posting what SOMEONE ELSE said on another message board is that experience is down and some guys arent sure what they are supposed to do. Hundreds of new FO's are a problem. A bigger problem is captains who got the quick upgrade and dont have much experience to draw on and having not had the time to learn from a veteran pilot they flounder a bit when something out of the ordinary presents itself. Flame away but its a point worth considering.

PS- for the toolbag who asked, I fly for a 121 Major where I assure you they are not hiring guys with 1000/100.

 

[viper548]

How far out were the planes?

 

[bmpilot2003]

Wow someone actually supplied some usefull info here. The point I was making by posting what SOMEONE ELSE said on another message board is that experience is down and some guys arent sure what they are supposed to do. Hundreds of new FO's are a problem. A bigger problem is captains who got the quick upgrade and dont have much experience to draw on and having not had the time to learn from a veteran pilot they flounder a bit when something out of the ordinary presents itself. Flame away but its a point worth considering.

PS- for the toolbag who asked, I fly for a 121 Major where I assure you they are not hiring guys with 1000/100.

Lets debate horrible decisions made by Major airline captains with tens of thousands of hours. Who do you work for we can debate bad decision made at your airline. As for 1000/100 what do you have against skywest? Skywest has some of the highest mins in the industry. By the way most of the people at Skywest who got quick upgrades came from other airlines and had prior airline experience. But you wouldn't know that from the outside looking in would you? Tool box huh... how old are you?

 

[Metro752]

It was a normal day in Denver... THE DAY ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE!!!

I've scene it too! Awesome!

 

[Way2Broke]

It was a normal day in Denver... THE DAY ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE!!!

My favorite FAA video of all time!

 

[Sedona16]

Lets debate horrible decisions made by Major airline captains with tens of thousands of hours. Who do you work for we can debate bad decision made at your airline. As for 1000/100 what do you have against skywest? Skywest has some of the highest mins in the industry. By the way most of the people at Skywest who got quick upgrades came from other airlines and had prior airline experience. But you wouldn't know that from the outside looking in would you? Tool box huh... how old are you?

I flew for a Delta Connection carrier. I have no doubt we crossed paths at least once in my years of regional flying. Funny thing is we probably are in full agreement RE the Skywest 65% unless I am missreading your avatar. The point I was making in posting what another said is that with the relative inexperience at the regional level and low time teething, documented and undocumented screwups are on the increase. I have lots of friends at skywest, many who are some of the sharpest pilots I have ever met. They often times are baby sitting guys with record lows in experience, at least in the past few decades. Add some low time captains (those not from other carriers) and the risk goes up.

I assure you in my flying at the majors i see far fewer mistakes especially where it is related to experience. Do we still have some cowboys who make poor choices. Yes they are out there. Day in and day out though I can tell you the professionalism I see on a daily bases is incredible. The detailed briefings and carefull thought processes I see in action are much higher than what is being taught and many time used at the regional level. It makes me realize how poor my own communication was as a regional captain. These are my observations...flame away.

 

[Bako Cap]

The big question is; Was it their freedom leg and did they have a tight connection for their commute?

 

[pilotshan]

It was a normal day in Denver... THE DAY ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE!!!

Best movie ever!! Can't wait until recurrent to see it again!

 

[Crash Pad]

Ok I'll admit it... It was me. There I was on final in my CRJ 200! Microburst Alert + or - 60 knots on short final.

I look to my right. This kid must have been about 21 years old with 500 total. Panic in his eyes. "should we go around?" I look this Riddle puke right in the eyes and tell him "on time arrivals are job one here at SKYW! You want a bonus or do you want to go around?"

I turn up the volume on my IPOD so I can here it over the GPWS... I left my backpack in an overhead! Looks like I won't be able to video tape this approach and post it on youtube.

Persperation is forming on my mirrored sunglasses and my frosted, spiked hair is suddenly starting to show wear... Then the turbulence starts and... out of nowhere a voice comes over my IPOD "SKYW 342 do you want to go around".

FEDS! How will I show Southwest I can handle the 737 if I can't even land the RJ in these conditions. What will continental think if I don't at least try to force a landing. Reluctantly I shove the power forward. Riddle puke to my right has soiled himself so I tell him to go in back and clean up so I can sulk alone.

2400 total with 900 PIC turbine and still no stories about how I handled an emergency.

 

[shamrock]

This is yet another Skywest bashing flamebait......


Maybe ALPA should push for higher experience requirements....... Sorry what was I thinking......

You take issue with "Skywest bashing flamebait" but overlook the fact that you do much the same thing when you use virtually every thread as a forum for your anti-ALPA views.

 

[John Pennekamp]

This is yet another Skywest bashing flamebait...... The experience level is getting scarry everywhere.... Some of the worst examples I have seen come from Mesa..... I watch them take off in AVL on a regular basis without turning on the runway lights..... I assume they don't know about PCL..... I have watched Delta land in thunderstorms with microburst conditions.....

This isn't a Skywest issue...... this is an industry issue.....

Maybe ALPA should push for higher experience requirements....... Sorry what was I thinking......

Well said!