AWAC Pilots Get Hosed - Thanks ALPA

[Skyguy]

Therefore, after having considered the evidence and arguments of the parties, the System Board decides that there shall be no return to the 2001 pilot agreement. The parties shall have 45 days within which to resolve the monetary damages issue, and in the absence of resolution of such issue within a 45 day period commencing from the date of this decision, the System Board shall resolve such issue.

Lawrence T. Holden, Jr.

Impartial Chairman (Ha,ha,ha,ha)​

 

[BoilerUP]

Ain't ALPA's fault...

 

[Mongolikecandy]

Therefore, after having considered the evidence and arguments of the parties, the System Board decides that there shall be no return to the 2001 pilot agreement. The parties shall have 45 days within which to resolve the monetary damages issue, and in the absence of resolution of such issue within a 45 day period commencing from the date of this decision, the System Board shall resolve such issue.

Lawrence T. Holden, Jr.

Impartial Chairman (Ha,ha,ha,ha)​

If you really thought we were going to snap back to 2001, you were dreaming. It would have been great but it was so unlikely, no one should have been surprised.

The fact that this spineless jerkwad is too pu$$y to hand down a monetary settlement is where we are really going to get screwed.

 

[ualdriver]

Therefore, after having considered the evidence and arguments of the parties, the System Board decides that there shall be no return to the 2001 pilot agreement. The parties shall have 45 days within which to resolve the monetary damages issue, and in the absence of resolution of such issue within a 45 day period commencing from the date of this decision, the System Board shall resolve such issue.

Lawrence T. Holden, Jr.​

Impartial Chairman (Ha,ha,ha,ha)​

What are the details? The last I heard, the AWAC guys won a legal grievance against the company and were award monetary compensation due to the paycut they had to take in order to secure UAL flying- flying that never came. What is all this about? And did you guys get your money yet?

 

[AWACoff]

The arbitrator has been paid off. His J.O.B. is to MAKE A DECISION!!! This moron would have crashed long ago if he was a pilot. Now we get to wait another 45 days for the company to say "screw off, we ain't paying you nuthin' " while the union says "we want to be made 100% whole". Then you have 90 days to file legal briefs and another 6 months for this complete doooouchebag of an arbitrator to make his decision. The pilot group has lost no matter what because even if we were made whole, we still lost the use of that money. It doesn't take any money skills whatsoever to invest money and get a return higher than statutory interest. Somebody has been paid off here. Obviously it's not the pilots.

 

[dojetdriver]

Was that guy Judge Wedhoff is disguise?

 

[rightrudder]

What are the details? The last I heard, the AWAC guys won a legal grievance against the company and were award monetary compensation due to the paycut they had to take in order to secure UAL flying- flying that never came. What is all this about? And did you guys get your money yet?

No, we have not received any money. We won the grievance, problem is the arbitrator did not want issue an award. He wanted the union and company to try to mutually negotiate a settlement and a timetable for that was set. There was no success at a settlement, so hearings were conducted by arbitrator to reach a decision on award.

Here we are, 11 months after we won the grievance, and not one bit closer to being compensated.

Today, his decision was announced: He decided that we should not get our pre-concessionary contract back, and AGAIN asked us to work with management to work out a settlement.

This has become a freaking joke. He was paid by us to make a decision, and he passed the buck AGAIN!

 

[J and E's Daddy]

When it comes to arbitrators and their decisions, it's very political. Mr Holden didn't have the balls to render any decision on awards. He wants the pilot group and the company to work it out. If he made a decision either way, he runs the risk of his services no longer being desired by one side or the other. I believe arbitrators are chosen by mutual agreement on both sides. If he gets a reputation of favoring one or the other, or making poor decisions, then he knows he won't be used. But what does Mr. Holden care? He got his $20,000 and all expenses paid. Now he can go to another case. These arbitrators hear cases not just from airlines but from all other labor disputes. I don't think he'll go broke.

 

[ualdriver]

No, we have not received any money. We won the grievance, problem is the arbitrator did not want issue an award. He wanted the union and company to try to mutually negotiate a settlement and a timetable for that was set. There was no success at a settlement, so hearings were conducted by arbitrator to reach a decision on award.

Here we are, 11 months after we won the grievance, and not one bit closer to being compensated.

Today, his decision was announced: He decided that we should not get our pre-concessionary contract back, and AGAIN asked us to work with management to work out a settlement.

This has become a freaking joke. He was paid by us to make a decision, and he passed the buck AGAIN!

I don't get it. I thought an arbitrator already ruled in your favor quite a while back concerning the paycuts you guys took in order to get the UAL flying, which of course never materialized. Now the arbitrator is saying that you have to reach an agreement on how you're supposed to be paid for an abitration reward you already won? What are you supposed to agree upon? Whether you get paid in 100's or 10's? UFB.

 

[atrdriver]

And again, how is this ALPAs fault? The arbitrator made the decision, all ALPA, or the company for that matter can do, is offer arguments. It looks to me as if ALPA did a pretty good job with that, as you WON the arbitration.

 

[ILLINI]

All the arbitrator has said so far in a nutshell is that the pilots have won the grievance. With this latest letter, he said that the pre-concessionary (2001) contract will not be reinstated, and that we will continue to work under our current (2003) contract. As of yet he has not ruled how much or which pilots are entitled to any back pay if any at all. That's what he wants the company and union to agree on within the next 45 days. At the end of those 45 days he will issue his own decision as to who will get back pay if any and how much they are owed. Since neither the union or company have budged whatsoever on all previous attempts to reach a decision, I'm pretty confident they won't come to an agreement in the next 45 days either. Hopefully the arbitrator already has his decision written up and will submit it shortly after the 45 days has expired and we won't have to wait another 90 days to submit our arguments all over again and have the arbitrator take another 6 months to review it before he takes his 90 days or whatever it is to issue his decision.

 

[XJohXJ]

It sounds like the arbitration process is what needs to be fixed, not ALPA.

 

[DoinTime]

It sounds like the arbitration process is what needs to be fixed, not ALPA.

The only way to get us out from arbitrators settling all of our disputes is to contribute to ALPA PAC and vote for labor friendly politicians (generally not republicans).

 

[IADBLRJ41]

I agree without ALPA we would have never even seen an arbitration date. We would not even seen a case.

True it is not what we were 100% looking for but we are one of very few airlines that have had some success at getting some of the concessions back. We shall see what happens.

 

[ualdriver]

All the arbitrator has said so far in a nutshell is that the pilots have won the grievance. With this latest letter, he said that the pre-concessionary (2001) contract will not be reinstated, and that we will continue to work under our current (2003) contract. As of yet he has not ruled how much or which pilots are entitled to any back pay if any at all. That's what he wants the company and union to agree on within the next 45 days. At the end of those 45 days he will issue his own decision as to who will get back pay if any and how much they are owed. Since neither the union or company have budged whatsoever on all previous attempts to reach a decision, I'm pretty confident they won't come to an agreement in the next 45 days either. Hopefully the arbitrator already has his decision written up and will submit it shortly after the 45 days has expired and we won't have to wait another 90 days to submit our arguments all over again and have the arbitrator take another 6 months to review it before he takes his 90 days or whatever it is to issue his decision.

Interesting. Thanks for the information. Good luck with your arbitration. You guys deserve 100% of your money back, plus significant interest.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I have no idea what this is about, but why is it that everyone blames ALPA whenever things don't go their way.

For AWAC and Us Air pilots... when you go to an arbitrator, you go in knowing that you are rolling the dice. Take what you got and quit whining. If you wanted a sure thing, you shouldn't have gone to arbitration! You made your bed, now lie in it!

 

[ualdriver]

I have no idea what this is about, but why is it that everyone blames ALPA whenever things don't go their way.

For AWAC and Us Air pilots... when you go to an arbitrator, you go in knowing that you are rolling the dice. Take what you got and quit whining. If you wanted a sure thing, you shouldn't have gone to arbitration! You made your bed, now lie in it!

John,

One of the rare times I'll have to disagree with you concerning the AWAC guys. They got screwed, the arbitrator sided with them, and they are being forced to go to arbitration to get to get the back pay that they deserve. Their management is dragging their feet because they know they are going to owe their pilots significant $$ due to arbitrator's original decision.

The guy that started this post was a misinformed idiot who somehow believes that ALPA told the arbitrator to rule the way he did or some other ridiculous notion. It wasn't even worth addressing as he was so far out in left field.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The guy that started this post was a misinformed idiot who somehow believes that ALPA told the arbitrator to rule the way he did or some other ridiculous notion. It wasn't even worth addressing as he was so far out in left field.

That's pretty much the point I was trying to make.

 

[Skyguy]

Not ALPA’s fault. Ask yourself who sets the arbitration process? How is this process beneficial to the pilots? Its NOT! Did ALPA hire any outside experts to present evidence to Holden? NO! ALPA keeps it in house to save them money not you. Was there any investigation into Untied side of the story? NO, this would cost money. Do you think the ALPA attorneys, on a guaranteed salary, have anything at stake compared to an outside attorney with a private law practice? I doubt it. I bet they are great lawyers, but they have little at stake. Who from the MEC agreed to this arbitrator? What is his record for the pilots in the past, ZERO! Was there any investigation to the reality of the Sub-Chapter “S” corporation’s financials? NO! They just accepted the face value of the report given by who else……. AWAC. So the owners lied to employees to get the concessions, why would they not lie in the arbitration, because they took an oath? Get real, they did just what they wanted, and stole that money from the employees and had a better Christmas than any of its hard working, cross country moving, dedicated professional that allow it to operate and make them rich.

Just check the internet. AWAC ended up with 8.3 Million shares of USAir at 15.00 a share. Plus one seat on the board. AWAC EMPLOYEES GOT HOSED. Before anything else happens, someone better figure out how to find the lies, uncover them and vacate this binding arbitration. This is not going to happen under ALPA.

 

[BoilerUP]

So much ignorance, so little time (or desire)...

I don't know how our hard-working Grievance volunteers or Carl Fleming keep doing what they're doing when they read posts like this...