Everyone Get Comfortable At Your Regional

[Flyprdu]

House Approves Change to the Upper Age Limit
Language reflects ALPA Executive Board Resolution.

December 11, 2007​

The U.S. House of Representatives passed legislation this evening that would raise the pilot mandatory retirement age to 65 by a unanimous vote of 390-0. The measure, introduced by House Transportation & Infrastructure Committee Chairman James Oberstar (D-Minn.), is identical to the language already included in the House and Senate Transportation Appropriations conference report, which is now ensnared in the larger, unrelated fight over completing this year’s spending bills. “I salute Chairman Oberstar and his colleagues for this bold step,” said Capt. John Prater, ALPA’s president. “The legislation passed by the House of Representatives is consistent with ALPA’s Executive Board resolution that is designed to protect the interests of airline pilots and this Association.”
Instrumental in achieving passage of the legislation were House Aviation Subcommittee Chairman Jerry Costello (D-Ill.) and committee members Rep. Robin Hayes (R-N.C.) and Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.).
The Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act, H.R.4343, was introduced this morning and placed on the House suspension calendar, which is a special procedure used to speed up action by setting aside the regular rules of order and requiring a two-thirds majority vote for passage of legislation.
In addition to allowing Part 121 airline pilots to fly up to age 65, H.R.4343 will clarify non-retroactivity, provide sufficient liability protection for unions, prohibit unilateral changes to labor agreements and benefit plans, eliminate the over/under split for domestic operations, and make the rule change effective as of the date the legislation is enacted.
The Senate will now have to decide whether to bring the measure up under their own procedural motion, known as unanimous consent, in which a legislative matter is considered agreed to if no Senator on the floor objects. The Senate has already once before unanimously approved the language of H.R.4343 in the form of the Stevens amendment during debate of the Transportation Appropriations bill on September 11.



This will undoubtably create a nice slow down of major airlines' hiring plans. So sit back, relax, and enjoy your stay at whatever regional you currently call home.

 

[jws717]

Not to be a downer, but i grew up on a street full of pilots back in the 80s.

1 Eastern
2 Pan Am
1 Braniff

2 of the Pan Am guys lost their battles to cancer at 48 and 62.

The Braniff guy died from cancer at 52.

The Eastern guy quit the industry and is in great health.

Point is none of them came close to 65. 3/4 were dead before 65.

 

[generaltso]

what is the timeframe now?

 

[Superpilot92]

I just threw up a little in my mouth!!

 

[ratherbeflyen]

Of all the retired major pilots I know, not one waiting until 60 to retire. They all opted out early.

 

[DashTrash400]

Well, if they were all planning on retiring before age 60 anyways there wouldn't be the push to up it to 65, would there?

Great to see the age changing just as hiring is slowing for a possible recession. Yaaayy, I love this industry....

 

[JumpersAway]

I figure most will fly until they can collect Social Security and bridge the healthcare gap. Beyond that, I think the majority of pilots will be forced out, by choice or by medical, before reaching age 65. The initial delay may hurt us in the short term, but the airlines are already understaffed, and the hiring MUST continue. I'm not happy about it, but I don't think age 65 will be the career nuker everyone is forcasting it to be.

 

[CFI2766]

The initial delay may hurt us in the short term, but the airlines are already understaffed, and the hiring MUST continue. I'm not happy about it, but I don't think age 65 will be the career nuker everyone is forcasting it to be.[/quote]


Man I hope you are right. If the change had to come (which I do support...paradoxically), this is the best possible time for it. The airlines are already understaffed, hopefully, the career delay will be minimal.

 

[pdub20s]

With them upping the age to 65yrs old, a lot of the "younger" FOs are gonna have to baby sit the age 60-65 captain. A lot can happen to the body and mind in that 5 year time frame. I am totally against flying past age 60. A lot of the guys I talk to that are getting close to age 60 dont want to fly past it. Hey, if you need to fly past age 60.. thats what the fractionals are for.

 

[BrickTop]

QUOTE:
I think the majority of pilots will be forced out, by choice or by medical, before reaching age 65.

A majority could avoid their health problems if they were as ambitious about healthy lifestyles as their supporting drives for ALPA. Learning some basic knowledge of good nutrition and getting off their backsides to exercise a few times a week could reduce the number by 50-70%. I have no sympathy for laziness or downright ignorance to dietary idiocy. If they care that little about their own health and are to ignorant to adopt lifestyles that preserve their flying privilege, they deserve to lose their medicals.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Pdub has it right.

 

[ex j-41]

The initial delay may hurt us in the short term, but the airlines are already understaffed, and the hiring MUST continue. I'm not happy about it, but I don't think age 65 will be the career nuker everyone is forcasting it to be. Man I hope you are right. If the change had to come (which I do support...paradoxically), this is the best possible time for it. The airlines are already understaffed, hopefully, the career delay will be minimal.

911 already delayed our career by 5 years plus. All pilots at age 60 didn't get furloughed, didn't have to search for another job and didn't suffer like the rest. Oh they might have had to sell their 2nd boat...or house in the hamptons.
Age 65 just helps those that didn't save for retirement and hurts all those behind them. Not too mention the airlines now have 5 more years of paying their top wage earners. I understand that the airlines provoked the pilot shortage, with the low wages, crappy schedules, and lots of TAFB, so let them suffer for a change.

Woo Hoo age 65 is going through!!!!
5 more years at a regional for me!!!!
Sounds great!!!

 

[siucavflight]

This is not that bad, we are all going to wind up at NetJets where there is no retirement age anyways.

 

[eaglefly]

With them upping the age to 65yrs old, a lot of the "younger" FOs are gonna have to baby sit the age 60-65 captain. A lot can happen to the body and mind in that 5 year time frame. I am totally against flying past age 60. A lot of the guys I talk to that are getting close to age 60 dont want to fly past it. Hey, if you need to fly past age 60.. thats what the fractionals are for.

You mean like the Captains who are baby-sitting you now due to lack of experience ?

 

[pdub20s]

You mean like the Captains who are baby-sitting you now due to lack of experience ?

No one has to baby sit me.

I dont know if anyone has ever heard this before:

"Once a man twice a baby"

Same goes if pilots fly to age 65. When they first started out they had to be baby sat by a more experienced pilot, now when they hit age 60-65 and they aren't very sharp anymore they are gonna have to be baby sat again.

But anyways eagle, hows that 7year upgrade going?

 

[bizzum]

But anyways eagle, hows that 7year upgrade going?

Probably about as good as that contract you work under....

 

[eaglefly]

No one has to baby sit me.

I dont know if anyone has ever heard this before:

"Once a man twice a baby"

Same goes if pilots fly to age 65. When they first started out they had to be baby sat by a more experienced pilot, now when they hit age 60-65 and they aren't very sharp anymore they are gonna have to be baby sat again.

But anyways eagle, hows that 7year upgrade going?

A babbling ridiculous fool...........but you're a kid, so I understand.

EVERY pilot over 60 is going to suddenly become incompatent ?

They have to pass a more difficult checkride then you twice as often. They're certainly no worse.

I know it hurts to have your career kicked in the balls, but you should get used to it, because in all likelihood, you sack is gonna be dented fairly often in this business.

The upgrade ?

Don't care as I upgraded 12 years ago..............$10K/month.

 

[TristarJS30]

I just have to say... Who the hell wants to work to age 65?

I mean, I love flying. But who wants to work that long? (In a perfect world) I'd be long retired by that point.

 

[Flyprdu]

The initial delay may hurt us in the short term, but the airlines are already understaffed, and the hiring MUST continue. I'm not happy about it, but I don't think age 65 will be the career nuker everyone is forecasting it to be.

True, it will normalize after the first batch goes through. But getting that initial group to 65 will take 5 years! On top of that, it will delay the average age of entry level pilots of the major airlines.

Every day this career path becomes less and less profitable.

 

[ex j-41]

True, it will normalize after the first batch goes through. But getting that initial group to 65 will take 5 years! On top of that, it will delay the average age of entry level pilots of the major airlines.

Every day this career path becomes less and less profitable.

I know this wouldn't be 100% but think about 5 years of no retirements.
5 Years of zero movement.
5 more years of reserve.
5 more years as an F/O.
5 more years at a regional
5 more years as a regional F/O
5 more years to wait to get on that widebody.

either way it's 5 more years of little or no movement no matter where you are.

 

[eaglefly]

I know this wouldn't be 100% but think about 5 years of no retirements.
5 Years of zero movement.
5 more years of reserve.
5 more years as an F/O.
5 more years at a regional
5 more years as a regional F/O
5 more years to wait to get on that widebody.

either way it's 5 more years of little or no movement no matter where you are.

I know..........it's tough.

If only ALPA had not done one thing (poll their membership for their desires and then act on THAT) and then do another (lobby the other way and congratulate that result).

ALPA's the flip side of the same coin as management and their primary focus is publishing.

They not only sell the most overpriced magazine in U.S. history, they make it so tens of thousands of pilots HAVE to buy it or ALPA has them fired.

I guess we can add extortion to corruption, but it's the American way now........and this business is loaded with gullible saps that fall for it hook, line and sinker every day.

 

[Flyprdu]

I know..........it's tough.

If only ALPA had not done one thing (poll their membership for their desires and then act on THAT) and then do another (lobby the other way and congratulate that result).

ALPA's the flip side of the same coin as management and their primary focus is publishing.

They not only sell the most overpriced magazine in U.S. history, they make it so tens of thousands of pilots HAVE to buy it or ALPA has them fired.

I guess we can add extortion to corruption, but it's the American way now........and this business is loaded with gullible saps that fall for it hook, line and sinker every day.

If this goes through, I'll cancel this magazine and order "Cruising World" in short order.

 

[eaglefly]

If this goes through, I'll cancel this magazine and order "Cruising World" in short order.

It will, in part because ALPA wants it to....it's BIG money for them and that's what matters.

You'll enjoy "Cruising World" much more.

 

[Superpilot92]

Yeah alpa gets 5 more years of Dues from the highest paid pilots. Thats probably exactly what this is all about!!

 

[Salty Dog]

My dad sat sideways in a 727 for 10 years before he upgraded to FO.

Can you imagine? Summer of '65 napalming commies in your F-105. Summer of '67 yer hired - go fly the panel. Then you don't touch the wheel until Jimmy Carter is President. Wow.

What's "bad" is always relative.

I agree 65 is not a career nuker. I foresee a larger percentage being out by then as well. We younger, healthier guys, however, will benefit the most.

 

[eaglefly]

My dad sat sideways in a 727 for 10 years before he upgraded to FO.

Can you imagine? Summer of '65 napalming commies in your F-105. Summer of '67 yer hired - go fly the panel. Then you don't touch the wheel until Jimmy Carter is President. Wow.

What's "bad" is always relative.

I agree 65 is not a career nuker. I foresee a larger percentage being out by then as well. We younger, healthier guys, however, will benefit the most.

That's the rationalization ALPA is using to line their pockets with.

 

[siucavflight]

No one has to baby sit me.

I dont know if anyone has ever heard this before:

"Once a man twice a baby"

Same goes if pilots fly to age 65. When they first started out they had to be baby sat by a more experienced pilot, now when they hit age 60-65 and they aren't very sharp anymore they are gonna have to be baby sat again.

But anyways eagle, hows that 7year upgrade going?

I love it, try an insult a man based on his time to upgrade.
I guess he could ask you.
But anyways pdub, how is working for JO and Mesa going?

 

[BusDriver12]

House poised to pass Age 65 bill

Charlie Lunan
12/11/2007​

The U.S. House of Representatives was poised late Tuesday to approve legislation raising the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots to 65 from 60.
On Tuesday, U.S. Rep. James Oberstar, (D-Minn) pulled the Age 65 bill out of a massive and stalled FAA Reauthorization bill and pushed it through the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee he chairs. From there it will go before the full house with 16 other bills, where it must be passed by a two-thirds majority.
A companion bill will have to be passed unanimously by the Senate before it can go to President Bush's desk for signing. The bill would become effective the moment it is signed by the president.
The bill contained language backed by the Air Line Pilots Association. The nation's largest pilots union initially opposed raising the retirement age, but then worked to shape the bill after concluding the change was inevitable.
"We are very happy with it," ALPA Spokesman Pete Janhunen said late Tuesay of the language in the bill.
Here are some details on the legislation:

• U.S. certified pilots could continue flying for Part 121 passenger airlines until age 65.
• There would be no so-called under/over rule for domestic flights. Such a rule would have required there be at least one pilot under 60 on any crew with a pilot over 65 years of age. The 60/65 rule was adopted last year by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) to govern international flights.
• Flights departing the United States would be subject to the ICAO under/over rule.
• The bill will not be retroactive, which means that any pilot turning 60 before president Bush signs it, will have no rights to their seniority number. They could, however, continue flying by coming in at the bottom of the seniority list for their existing or another airline.
• Pilots would not be allowed to sue their unions for their seniority numbers.
• Airlines would not be allowed to use the law to make unilateral changes to pilot contracts, which will still have to be negotiated through the Railway Labor Act.

 

[utahrpm]

Not to be a downer, but i grew up on a street full of pilots back in the 80s.

1 Eastern
2 Pan Am
1 Braniff

2 of the Pan Am guys lost their battles to cancer at 48 and 62.

The Braniff guy died from cancer at 52.

The Eastern guy quit the industry and is in great health.

Point is none of them came close to 65. 3/4 were dead before 65.

Have you guys ever seen the FAA study (I think it may have been released as an Advisory Circular) regarding cosmic radiations affect on pregnant Flight Crew members? It concluded that the short exposure time (9 months max) did not pose a threat to the fetus. BUT, if you look at the data (broken down to below 24,000' cruise, above 24,000', Polar vs. Equatorial routes, 15,25 & 35 year careers) you'll find the death rate from cancer to be alarming. 35 years, above 24,000 your chance of cancer was way higher than an officer worker in Oklahoma City (their comparison). Much of my career was spent at low turbo-prop altitudes and short duration flights, and in retrospect I'm glad for that. So another five years at a Regional may prolong your life a bit! Seriously, I lost my copy of the study but I bet it is still available. Good thing for you young guys to read.

 

[Poahi]

We younger, healthier guys, however, will benefit the most.

Here's the reality:

1. The generation who pushed for the increase in the retirement age already benefited by it being lower for most of their career. Oh yeah, and they've also made more than you ever will.

2. The folks who negotiated the over the top concessionary contracts are the same folks who are slowing the earnings pipeline.

3. The amount you will make during your last five years will not offset the cost of waiting, even if you make it to 65.

4. Your life expectancy will decrease and if you work past 60 and your retirement period will decrease as well. If your retirement contributions are affected by life expectancy, your contributions will be reduced.

5. Your elected leadership is lobbying against the majority.

6. Safety had no place in these decisions.

7. There is more evidence the economy may enter a recession next year. Oil prices are up and airlines are under pressure to drop low yield markets and inefficient aircraft. Hiring isn't going to skyrocket anytime soon.

I'm not trying to be doom and gloom or encourage a generational feud, but for gosh sakes, please cut down on the Koolaid.