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dpneedham

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Posts
21
I have already read most of the posts about Mesaba and Pinnacle on this website and a few others. I am considering a mid-life career change, and want to pursue my childhood dream of being an airline pilot. I am a private/instrument pilot with 340 hours. I am very near commercial. I have an "in" at Mesaba, and just need to pass the interview process. I am too old (45) to put up with people's crap, or immature or youthful comments. Please just give it to me strait, without the crap I see on this board and others.

I am open to comments about what to expect, and any and all advice as far as what I need to do to get there, and stay happy once I am there.

Thanks in advance . . .

Oh, one other thing. I live in MSP. Is there any chance of being domiciled there right off the bat?
 
dpneedham said:
I ... want to pursue my childhood dream of being an airline pilot. ... I am too old (45) to put up with people's crap...
Click to expand...

I say this with all sincerity: If you don't have a thick skin for other people's crap, you're going to have a tough time as a regional airline pilot. You'll be dished crap all day long, from the company, from customers, from TSA, and so forth. Just be ready for it, and let most of it roll off.

That said, regional flying is generally a good job. The flying's fun, and the travel benefits are a great perk when you can use them. The money is the hardest part. If you're not starting out with a heap of debt and you can live within your means, you'll do fine.

Financially, surviving as a first officer is going to mean living with a spouse that works and earns decent money, or roommates to help pay the rent. A single guy on a salary of $20,529 is going to have around $1300 a month to live on after tax. I'm not sure what their health insurance costs, but you'll need to factor that in if you need it.

Commuting to a different base is tiring and sometimes expensive. Living in base, as it sounds like you'll be doing once you get MSP (maybe straight away? not sure on that) will make a huge difference in your quality of life.


I'll have to defer to others about the specifics about Mesaba.

Good luck!
 
The regionals are starving for applicants. If you've got a connection all the better.

Find a school that will knock out the commerical, multi and all three CFI ratings. This along with 50-100 multi time will get you into most regionals.

As far as age, don't sweat it. Makes you look more attractive as a longterm employee snce your age will problably preclude you from making it to a major. I say this as it takes a lot of time to build competitive turbine PIC hours.

Finishing up your career at a regional is very respectable and becoming more common place these days. You could also make a transition from the regionals to the frac side of things too.

Here's a website with the current hiring minimums for the various regionals. Some only require a Multi-Comm-Instr.

Regional Airline Hiring Minimums Link


.
 
Mid Life Career Change

I came to Mesaba late. 40. But I had a lot of time before I arrived.

Misadventure caused me to change from a flying job to a non-flying job, which I really hated. I was persuaded to try Mesaba because a friend knew I had a chip on my shoulder about Mesaba from way back in my aviation career.

I think that if you want it, you should do it. However you should know that while the training is good, it is intense like nothing that I have ever experienced in my life. And as a new hire, everything is a jeopardy event. Even IOE. There is massive amounts of stuff to learn and a lot of frustration.

I think getting online in the AVRO was one of my personal best achievements. I sure earned it.

I would NOT spend money to get your CFI's, you don't need them in this hiring environment. I would figure out how much money you would have spent on those ratings and use that amount to do multi-engine work until you get the job offer.

Have an instructor pound you on holding, se approaches, approaches (including NDB's), and just get your flying skills up to par. Also have that instructor get you into some clouds. You already meet the minimum flight time that we are hiring. You just have to get the ratings.

You can certainly do the interview and get through the training. I know it would have been easier had I been younger. You will have to work harder, I certainly did and I had a lot of help from my classmates. Many times I didn't think I could make it.

The pay is an issue. But dreams are priceless. If you can afford to accept the consequences I encourage you to get on board. Not even in the 1970's hiring boom was it this good to get an airline job. You just have to go get it.

As far as the age with your co-workers: My age has never been an issue. The pilots that work here are some of the nicest people and skilled pilots I have ever met.
 
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I agree that the CFI certificates may not be as important in todays hiring environment as much as in the past where one traditionally built TT.

Although I have heard of applicants being passed over for not having them. Whether you actually instruct or not, you will become a better pilot and certainly more knowledgeable too.
 
dpneedham said:
I am too old (45) to put up with people's crap, or immature or youthful comments. Please just give it to me STRAIT, without the crap I see on this board and others.
Click to expand...

Enough said about that already. Develop a strong tolerance for crap. You may be taking orders from a 20-something gel-haired, back-pack wearing, iPod listening Captain who posts some of those immature comments you see on this board. Get used to it.

I am in an almost identical boat -- mid-40's, career change, mid-300 hours. Also had an "in" with Mesaba.

Get your Commercial-Instrument-Multi and your ATP written.

I had multiple, extensive conversations with Mesaba Pilot Recruiting. Their mins are 600/100. They will do below that, but only with the recommendation of the Chief Pilot.

Further, Mesaba has a STRONG preference for CFIs with lots of recent experience. Not saying you can't get in if you're not, but anything less than 600/100 with a current CFI job will be difficult.

Hate to say it, but if you really need MSP, think about Pinnacle too.
 
About the post saying getting your written done, Mesaba does not ask any questions pertaining to the ATP. Spend the time you would use studying for the ATP on pt 91 and instrument stuff. Good luck, I interview with Mesaba the 29th!
 
Having done the mid-life career change thing I gotta say I highly recommend it.

I left a nice but stressful six-figure job at age 40 to flight instruct full time and haven't had a second's regret. I work harder, longer and with even more responsibility than before for a fraction of the pay and with virtually zero time off but I have a smile on my face every day.

After 500+ hours of dual given and closing in on 1,000tt I'm getting more and more serious about flying for an airline.

It's probably Mesaba or nothing for me, airline-wise, since I live in MSP, don't want to move and they have a rep for outstanding training and a great pilot group.

A buddy who just retired as an NWA 747-400 captain put it best when he said: "Hey, treat it as an adventure. You might hate it or you might find out you like airline pilot life. Either way, you'll get great experience and if it doesn't work out you have skills to fall back on. Those of us who only know how to do one thing, fly airplanes, don't have nearly the options you do."

Training is the only bit I'm really worried about, since at 41 I don't pick things up as quickly as I used to. I know I'll make my share of mistakes but one of the great things about teaching is how used to learning you become.

To compensate I've been studying my butt off, working on the ATP written, reading "Fly the Wing", the Turbine Pilots Manual and just about anything else I can get my hands on.

Let's face is, we old guys are just going to have to work harder to keep up with the kids in class but we could also have nice second careers and retire as captains long after they've moved on.

Sorry if I don't have any specific insights, all I can offer is my encouragement to follow your dream and tell you you're not alone.

Spend your money on multi time and knock out that ME commercial.

Who knows, maybe we'll wind up in the same class and bring the average age up to, oh, 24 or something.

Good luck!
 
Let's hear it for the over-40s!

When I interviewed with Pinnacle, the line captain said he once hired a guy who was 59! The guy wanted to get in one year on the line before he retired, and he did!
 
Pinnacle has not had any openings recently for MSP FO's. To be honest, with 15 of our planes going to mesaba and all of those 15 being based in MSP, I believe that MSP will be a shrinking base for pinnacle for at least the next five months.

Plus, this place sucks. Go to mesaba.
 
Keep It Up!

Thanks for all the replies. I am reading everything. I will be on here at least every other day, or so. It is good to know I am not alone. Kind of scares me that the only one on the plane with a few grey hairs might be me, sitting in the left seat with little if any authority. But I totally respect the (at least) 23 year old who has been there longer, and done more than me when I start out. Kudos to all those who pursue their dreams while they are young! I think I can make up for lost time. Looks like I have to toughen my skin a little. Some people do have a way of totally torking me off, if you know what I mean.
 
norskman2 said:
Enough said about that already. Develop a strong tolerance for crap. You may be taking orders from a 20-something gel-haired, back-pack wearing, iPod listening Captain who posts some of those immature comments you see on this board. Get used to it.

I am in an almost identical boat -- mid-40's, career change, mid-300 hours. Also had an "in" with Mesaba.

Get your Commercial-Instrument-Multi and your ATP written.

I had multiple, extensive conversations with Mesaba Pilot Recruiting. Their mins are 600/100. They will do below that, but only with the recommendation of the Chief Pilot.

Further, Mesaba has a STRONG preference for CFIs with lots of recent experience. Not saying you can't get in if you're not, but anything less than 600/100 with a current CFI job will be difficult.

Hate to say it, but if you really need MSP, think about Pinnacle too.
Click to expand...

I love it when people with minimal flying experience get on here a bash AIRLINE CAPTAINS simply because of their age or how they choose to wear their hair.
 
On the plus side ... at 45 you'll probably have the first choice on base! Use your in to give you the info in regards to where they need pilots and what planes. If MSP is the key and they need Saab FO's express interest in the Saab at the interview. Living in base, in my opinion, is top priority at this level. good luck
 
plunger said:
I love it when people with minimal flying experience get on here a bash AIRLINE CAPTAINS simply because of their age or how they choose to wear their hair.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying some folks on this board seem to have a problem with this whole hairgel/backpack/iPod thing.

I personally wouldn't have any objections working with a Captain who was 16 and wore a purple Mohawk as long as they were competent.
 
Age 16? Nope, not me. I think the FAA is prudent to not allow ATP rated Captains to fly at less than 23 years old.

I remember when I got out of the Army at 22, and thought I had matured alot, and that every employer should take my 4 years of Army as equal to a Bachelor's degree, and hire me for their entry level positions. Didn't work.

But there are things that a young pilot had to grow in, and mature in, to get those required hours, while traveling the age range of 18 or 16 to 23. It is not a complete guarantee, but most people by age 23 should be able to Captain an airliner (and like anything else, I am sure some make it through the cracks who shouldn't).

I am sure every crew member has the option, like hey buddy, if you fly like that again, I am not going with you.

But as I said in an earlier post, I admire and respect those who pursue their dreams while they are young (unless they have a family, and are willing to let them starve while they selfishly pursue their dreams), and when I first start out, that 23 year old will know more than me, and have done more than me, so kudos or hat's off to him/her, and they will be my Captain for about 2 years. And that will be fine by me.
 
Go for it. I just turned 40, wasnt current and I am instructing for a few months before applying. My youngest daughter is graduating from high school next year and my wife and I are gonna give it a shot... if I get hired. This took alot of consideration, considering I was a CFI at 21 and have had my ATP for 10 years. I just couldnt make a living for my family during those years flying. I agree with the previous post about older applicants looking attractive because our chance to go to the majors are slim, but mainly beacause of maturity. Best of luck.
 
Talian said:
. . . I just couldn't make a living for my family during those years flying.
Click to expand...

Well here is the deal . . .

I am 45, married, with two children, ages 12 and 5.

This idea would be absolutely impossible if my wife wasn't a Registered Nurse. Like, hopefully someday (before I die) I would like to be the primary income earner in my family. She would kind of like that day to come too, and is waiting patiently (ok, sometimes not so patiently).

So will I be able to support my family, AFTER I "just sweat it out for the first year," and the second and third?

Gosh! I really want to do this, but . . . you know, if I can't, then I need to know now.
 
Will I be able to support my family?

That depends.
I haven't been the bread winner in my family since coming to Mesaba. I have been here about 5 years and am going to upgrade school the end of the month. I will just about catchup to her pay.

So if you have 300 hrs you will need about 2 years before you get a chance to upgrade into the SAAB. If in two years there is still going to be positions. You will have to expect that the hiring and upgrading going on right now won't last indefinitely.

Can you and your wife survive on about 23K the first year and about 29K the second and 35K the third and about 40K the 4th? While those are gross numbers take home available funds change dramatically if you have to commute.

I am fortunate that my wife allowed my hobbyjob. Now I am upgrading and I still get to stay in my home base. It was a challenging past few years but I have loved most of it.
 
I think for the first two years at least it will depend on what else I can do to earn a few $$$ on my days off from Mesaba.

Any other people out there have a second source of income they would like to share?
 
dpneedham said:
I think for the first two years at least it will depend on what else I can do to earn a few $$$ on my days off from Mesaba.

Any other people out there have a second source of income they would like to share?
Click to expand...

Do an "advanced search" for "income", use the "title only" setting, and you'll find lots of old posts on this, with many ideas.
 
Are you willing to gamble your children's future?
Don't sacrifice your family for this "dream". And, I am not just talking about pay but being at the mercy of scheduling. Want to see your kids unwrap Christmas presents on Christmas morning? Good luck as a new hire. And, you want to work on the few off days you get?
The regional lifestyle is awful and starting so late in the game (even if you do live in base) will only heighten this fact.
And, by the way, bases do get closed. I know from experience.
Sorry to be the wet blanket but I think you should pursue the 100.00 hamburger with your kids and look to working as a part time CFI to get your flying jones.

Cheers- rum
 
I started late also. Don't be concerned about your age. But be aware that while flying is great, one can have too much of a good thing. Doing anything for up to 8 hours a day can become "a job". It can ruin your love for flying. Also, decide if you really want to get up a four o'clock in the morning, get home after midnight, work weekends and holidays, and be on duty 12 hours a day. Worst than taking crap, in my opinion, is the negativity of people in the airline business. It's insidious. After a while you start to believe all the negative crap you hear. You can't let it get to you. Try to talk about things other than "the contract", or "did you hear what the did to so and so" etc.

-Best
 
While some of these posts are true, don't let people steer you away from your dream. If you never do it you may have regrets. If you and your wife agree to this and you will be ok money wise, I say give it a shot. It is like my sister, she moved out to cali to try the whole acting deal which is a long shot. However, she knew if she didn't try it, she would be wondering her whole life if she could have made it. Give it a try, and if you don't like it after a few years, then pursue something else. I will ask this though, are you fine with being at Mesaba the rest of your career? Making it to the majors these days, and at such a late age is not impossible, but it is a long shot.
 
I don't have to make it to the majors to consider being a success.

But I do want to eventually be the primary income earner, and let my wife take a breather.

That could happen once upgraded to Captain, and after I get to the 5 or 6 year on the pay scale.

Life would suck the first two years, and so bad it is enough for me to forget trying.

They would owe me HUGE if I sucked it up for two years, and I would never get paid back, in my opinion.
 
dpneedham

If you think you want to fly for the airlines and MSP is your home....Mesaba is a great company to start and end your career. I'm sure you have seen the pay scales and retirement(401k) bennies, and if that will work for you I say go for it. From my opinion, I think Mesaba has one of the best pilot groups out there. When I was hired I was one of those "23 year old gel in the hair" (although I didn't have a backpack or an ipod) guys everyone is talking about and now eight years, one base displacement and two downgrades later, I still think Mesaba is a great place to work. Good luck to you and I hope to see you online!
 

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