fractionals or majors

[206amphib]

Ok, believe me, I'm not trying to start a fight here, just get some honest opinions.

It looks like I'm going to be in a situation in the next month or so where I may have to choose taking a job at a major or a fractional. Lets face it, the fractionals like netjets have a great quality of life, and if the new contract passes, great pay from day one.

The majors are all messed up in some way. You can pick any one you want and you can find people who have good or bad things to say about any of them. With this in mind, keeping this conversation purely a pro/con talk, what do we all think about choosing between northwest and netjets?

Remember, lots of people go lots of different ways on opinion. Some folks as nw i've talked to have been there 25 years and are generally happy. Others have been there 25 years and hate it. I can't be sure, but I haven't heard of anyone at nj that isn't satisified, although most people can always find a little something that needs improvement......

Let the fun begin.......​

 

[tie1on]

go to the fractionals if you want quality of life. if you have the need to fly big a/c go to the airlines

 

[tubelcane]

It depends on some things. If the fractional you're looking at is Flight Options keep looking. Been there done that. Net jets is a different story. They are the SW,FedEX, UPS in that area. Shares has a pretty good rep too, at least they did 2 years ago when I was at Options. Going to a major, which kind, legacy or LCC? Good luck being on the bottom of a legacy when the next 9/11 type event happens. I also have the t-shirt for that one. There are so many variables, do you have to commute, how long to upgrade, what are the benefits like, retirement, etc......

 

[CA1900]

Ok, believe me, I'm not trying to start a fight here, just get some honest opinions...

It looks like I'm going to be in a situation in the next month or so where I may have to choose taking a job at a major or a fractional....

... what do we all think about choosing between northwest and netjets?​

I know very little about Northwest. I know what's on AirlinePilotCentral's page on them. And the only real interaction I've had with one of their pilots was in a hotel van in DTW. Out of the blue, he looks at me, and says, "Do you want some advice?"

"uhhhhhhh..." (I really didn't.)

"Get out of this f----ing business. Run fast, run far, before it's too late."

That was it. It was a very quiet van ride after that. :erm: He did strike me as one of those guys who would be miserable no matter where he landed, so take that with a very big grain of salt.

Other than that, I know nothing about that company or working for it, so I'll have to defer to someone else for the Northwest perspective.


As for me, I spent about 7 years at a regional airline before coming to NetJets. It was longer than I intended, partly because of the industry crashing down, and partly because I had a bout of tunnel vision with my career. I really saw a major airline cockpit as the only logical step up; I had never really considered the fractionals, even though I had several friends working for NetJets at the time. Hey, you know how hindsight is.

I can't be sure, but I haven't heard of anyone at nj that isn't satisified, although most people can always find a little something that needs improvement......

Sounds about right. The biggest items of what little dissatisfaction I've seen come from two things: limited domiciles for recent hires, and low FO pay. Both of those issues will be greatly improved if this new contract passes.

​

I can't speak for the other fracs; I can only speak of NJA. It's a different kind of work from airline flying. Some people like it better, while others just don't like or can't do it. Some feel the uncontrollable itch to fly the "big iron." I really couldn't care less -- for me, it's about the schedule, the lifestyle at work, the pay, and the benefits.

Yeah, you fly planes, but the side work is different. Your work days are generally fixed (most of us are 7-on/7-off), but the content of those days is constantly in flux. Some guys hate not knowing where they're overnighting (or bidding on specific overnights). Others, like me, find the variety to be much more interesting. One night I found myself in a Hilton in IAD. The next, at a $500-a-night luxury resort.

I found the airline job to be easier work overall. I also found it to be pretty dull after a while. Back and forth to the same hub, all day long. The same crappy food court, all week long. Back when my previous company was doing point-to-point stuff versus hub-and-spoke stuff, I found the job much more enjoyable.


As I said, there are side duties that aren't part of an airline job. After a flight, we toss the trash, straighten up the cabin, wipe down the tray tables, and vacuum the carpet if it needs it. Then we eat any leftover catering the passengers didn't touch. Mmmmm.... seafood tray......

If the lav needs servicing, we call line service to come do it, and tip them for it (which is reimbursed). Contrary to FlightInfo lore, we don't dump lavs, and the extent of "cleaning" them is spritzing the top with cleaner and wiping it off. The cleanup routine rarely takes more than about 5-10 minutes. We're responsible for keeping the airplane stocked with drinks and snacks, which we take care of when we hit one of our popular airports with supplies. Before departure, we pick up any catering that was delivered for the passengers, and stow it on the plane.


Of course, we do the normal flying stuff, like pulling charts, getting clearances, loading the FMS, etc. We have a full dispatch department that handles filing flight plans, weight and balance, calculating fuel, and more. That saves us a ton of time and effort on the road, so we can concentrate on our own jobs.

Life on the road is generally pretty good. We normally are put up in good hotels, with a few exceptions here and there. The anomalies are mostly driven by sold-out hotels or out-of-the-way places -- sometimes that means a cheap motel, and sometimes it means an expensive resort. It's never dull! Crew meals are provided on the road as needed, and they're usually pretty good. Certainly better than food-court dreck, that's for sure -- that's one thing I won't miss at all about the airlines at all.

The perks are good. Insurance is 100% company-paid, and it's a pretty good Aetna plan. Dental and vision included, too, along with an optional Flexible Spending Account (money pulled pre-tax, to use for health expenses), and a 401k that matches 50% of your contributions, up to 15% of your paycheck. That's a phenomenal benefit.

Full pay and benefits all start on your first day at training. Uniforms are fully paid by the company. Two weeks of paid vacation (which equals two 21-day periods off if you're on the 7/7) starting your first year.

As for travel, we can ride on empty flights, although the odds of getting back on one of our flights is just about nil. (Having had my share of non-revenue free airline travel, the odds weren't much better!) But we do keep all the hotel and airline points, so free confirmed tickets are just a matter of time. The majority of our hotel nights are in Hilton properties, so we build points with them very quickly, which takes care of the expensive part of a vacation -- the hotel.


It isn't for everyone. As I said, it's more work. You'll be helping load a few suitcases into the baggage area. (And every once in a while, you'll get a "moving van" customer -- they're rare, thank goodness.) The big adjustment for many is that you're truly face-to-face with your customers. There's no kevlar door to protect you (or hide a newspaper) -- if they have a question, like "when do we get there," they can come right up and ask. (Unless they've figured out how to turn on the airshow; then they won't ask that question.)

I like that there's a lot of autonomy on the road. Though you're directed where to fly (obviously), it's on you to make sure things get taken care of. Plane's out of wine, and no stock location? Go get a couple of bottles, expense it, and get paid. No questions asked. (The first time I went to buy wine in my uniform, it felt very... wrong. It would have gotten me canned at my last job! Go figure.) You pretty much get your airplane at the beginning of the week, and it's yours until your week's over, or something breaks and you're off to a service center.

That's about all I can think of. I think it's going to be my career job, thanks in large part to the contract we're working under. The union here is better than any I could have imagined.

 

[tubelcane]

I guess I should have read the middle paragraph.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

I think that NWA guy was extremely arrogant to have assumed that his advice was either warranted, or desired.

For all he knew, you could have been flying longer than he has!

You should have responded, "Do YOU want some advice? Get some more experience, then apply at NetJets."

 

[CA1900]

I think that NWA guy was extremely arrogant to have assumed that his advice was either warranted, or desired.

I agree, but as he was foaming at the mouth, I didn't want to risk getting rabies.

You should have responded, "Do YOU want some advice? Get some more experience, then apply at NetJets."

Ha... at the time, I was still flying a 1900. (Of course, he didn't know that.) Guess he thought he was "saving me," or something.

Besides, if I'm already to the point where I'm sharing a hotel van with another airline crew, it's far too late for me... :0

 

[BigMotorToter]

I think that NWA guy was extremely arrogant to have assumed that his advice was either warranted, or desired.

For all he knew, you could have been flying longer than he has!

You should have responded, "Do YOU want some advice? Get some more experience, then apply at NetJets."

I remember feeling that way to a few old bitter TWA Captains. Over the last few years I have realized how very wize they actually were.

Don't judge to quickly. That NWA pilot could actually have been the ghost of pilot future paying you a visit.

 

[Lear70]

It's a different kind of work from airline flying.

Altogether:

It's a different kind of flying.



Seriously, and don't call me Shirley, If you can take being gone 7 days in a row, by all means go fly for Netjets for better job security, better benefits, and better clientel (for the most part).

If you can't be gone that long at a time, want the ability to manipulate your schedule and/or overnights at will, or have guaranteed long overnights in fun cities like Bloomington, IN, Minot, ND, and Birmingham, AL (and sometimes actual "fun" cities), then go to the majors.

It's all about lifestyle...

 

[CA1900]

Altogether:

It's a different kind of flying.

Ha; very nice.


They're wildly different jobs, other than the fact that both involve airplanes. For some guys, the seven days away is a definite dealbreaker. For me, it works well.


As long as there's cold beer at the end of the day, we're all happy. :beer: