fractionals or majors

[Lear70]

The comparison wasn't between regionals and fractionals, it was between majors and fractionals, although I understand the regional lifestyle... lived 3 years on reserve with 10 days off a month, uncommutable reserve schedules, and a crashpad.

AirTran, Southwest, jetBlue are all easily 14-18 day off lines, mostly commutable, mostly 4 on/4 off, some 4 on /5 off, some 3 on/4 off trips. VERY rare to find a 5-day trip and they tended to go senior for people who were coming up on vacation and wanted to knock their time out early.

Stretching 7 days off was relatively easy, so was 20+ days for vacation.

Like I said, it's more a matter of which lifestyle you prefer and how much risk (major airline hire/furlough curve) you are willing to risk for a lifestyle that is, arguably, less work and more schedule flexibility.

Don't get me wrong... if I had it to do over again, I'd have taken the job Netjets offered me back in early 2001 before I started chasing the airline "brass ring".

 

[skyaddict]

Good points, Lear70. Even with commutable lines though, living outside of base is stressful. I never knew just how much stress I was constantly under, commuting at the airlines, until I dumped commuting and started life on the clock for my airlining at NJA. Ground stops? Mechanical back to the gate? Cancelled flight? Whatever, no skin off my back.
But as for the 7 days on- definitely could be dealbreaker for many I'm sure.

 

[Lear70]

I guess I've been commuting so long I don't even think about it anymore.

I leave myself two flights. If I make it, I make it. If I don't... oh well. Life's too short to stress over something you can't control. Like you said, no skin off my back.

 

[CA1900]

I guess I've been commuting so long I don't even think about it anymore.

I leave myself two flights. If I make it, I make it. If I don't... oh well. Life's too short to stress over something you can't control. Like you said, no skin off my back.

Does your company have a commuter clause of some sort?

Only reason I ask is that my last company (a regional, granted) didn't. Blow your commute three times, even through no fault of your own, and you're canned. Just happened to someone there recently, in fact.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

You're not going to change his mind. Human beings all tend to be defensive of the choices we make. We want to believe that they are the right choice...when in reality they're probably only the right choice - for us.

For example, in 1998 I flew for Lear70's current employer. It was not then considered a "major". Most pilots who were seeking the brass ring steered far clear of AirTran at that time. Many of the Captains Lear70 flies with today (assuming he's an F/O) were just like me -- misfit pilots who couldn't get hired by UAL.

All of the events in your life lead you to make the decisions you make at the times you make them. In that way, fate most certainly is the hunter.

Had I not been furloughed by AirTran I never would have gone back to Chautauqua. Had I not been on TDY in Akron with Chautauqua I would never have met my wife. Had I not been furloughed by US Airways I never would have ended up at Comair. Had I not been on an XNA overnight with Comair I never would have learned about my current employer. Had I not found a job where I am home most every night we would never have made the decision to have children. We all make the decisions we make based upon the information we have at the time.

USAir doesn't have a commuter clause. That was one of the factors leading to my decision not to go back.

Your decision is a personal one. Fractional vs. Major. Whatever works for you and your family is the right decision. Best of luck.

 

[Lear70]

Well-said, except AirTran isn't my current employer...

They were, but there was a parting of the ways last month in a way requiring legal intervention (see signature line). System Board in March of '08, Termination Grievance Arbitration 9-12 months after that, civil Wrongful Termination suit filing sometime in the middle and 18-24 months to bring it to trial.

Back in a Lear now until all of the above pans out, and have wished more than once on this crazy road the last 6 years or so that I had taken that Netjets offer back in 2001...

After facing the worst end of ex-Eastern management, it's still a lifestyle choice... or maybe I should have my head checked. Something about the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome...

 

[Guppiedriver]

USAir doesn't have a commuter clause. That was one of the factors leading to my decision not to go back.

But AWA does and I've been told that the new US Airways will have one also.

 

[USMC319]

Its been my observation that factional pilots commute more than most airline pilots. The difference is that they commute (or deadhead) on a positive space ticket in coach, while airline pilots usually ride in first class or the flight deck. Most of my fractonal buddies have multiple leg commutes to get to their aircraft and then back home, while I just take my single-leg "milk run" to work 2 or 3 times per month. The only way to avoid a commute is to work for an airline and live in domicile or get one of the few decent corporate jobs in town.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Sorry to hear that Lear. Crazy business we're in.

 

[On Your Six]

Three points about Netjets:

1. I believe the 7/7 schedule allows for a much more structured time at home because, if you request that schedule, you can plan your activities for most of the year. You can't necessarily get your schedule to exactly meet your needs at an airline unless you are super senior in many cases. Granted, 7 days away is a long time, but 7 days at home can make up for the time away and you can get a lot done.

2. If you fly for NWA, you will be on reserve for awhile (or maybe get bumped to Compass - you never know) and you will need to commute if you don't live in MSP, DTW or MEM. With Netjets, you can choose up to 100 domiciles if the TA passes (and it is trending that way). Therefore, you can move where you want to actually live and avoid some of that commuting stress. That could be a huge QOL factor for you - live in a lower-cost area and buy a bigger home and not have to worry about commuting. Why put up with airline commuting anymore if you don't live in a hub?

3. Netjets is the undisputed leader in its industry. FLOPS sucks. Flexjet, CS and Avantair are growing but don't come close in terms of scale of operation. NWA is not the leader in its industry. NWA is not in great shape and it could have issues with its Diesel 9 phase out in the next few years. If you join NJA you would get "reasonable" job security knowing that it is the industry leader. If you join NWA, you will always wonder about the potential implications of financial bumps in the road - that thought will always be there. Netjets passes fuel costs along to its fractional owners - NWA has to swallow some of that rising fuel cost due to competitive pricing. Personally, I would rather join an industry leader than a follower.

If the Netjets TA passes (100 domiciles plus great starting salary) watch as a flood of 121 guys immediately apply. Check these out:

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/netjets.html

vs.

http://airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/northwest.html

and then:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6093587&nseq=2

(yes, I know it is Netjets Europe XLS - but the US operation also operates a ton of XLS aircraft) vs.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5825279&nseq=1


At least you are lucky to have a choice. Good luck and let us know which path you choose.

 

[Going2Baja]

Six - Those photo links made me laugh out loud!! Very good post and also a good topic.


206 - I can't say it any better than those above me have. But I can say from personal experience that NWA isn't a place I would want to be right now. No one can see the future, but all of my furlough buddies that went back to NWA are hating life right now. All they can say its that "it's a job."

As for NJA - we'll Im still not sure I made the right choice going to Alaska instead of NJA and I don't think I'll know that answer for another 20-25 years - but looking at this new NJA contract I'm very much wondering if i made the right choice.

If you WANT to live in MSP, DTW or MEM then go for NWA and cross your fingers - if you don't want to live there then I think NJA is the only choice!!

Baja

 

[flyer390]

I have been with NJA for 6 years and I love it. I came from the airlines and the thought of going back to jumpseating to work and eating at the food court scares me!!!
On my way home last tour I bumped into a guy trying to jumpseat to work. The airplane broke so I went to the hotel and collected an extra 2,200 bucks (it would have put me over 14hr.) while he was running around sweatin bullets trying to figure out how he was going to get to work. The difference in that feeling right there is priceless!!!
Good luck!!

 

[Crowing Rooster]

If a newhire is hired at NetJets International and transfer to NJA do they go to the bottom of the senority list?

 

[imacdog]

If a newhire is hired at NetJets International and transfer to NJA do they go to the bottom of the senority list?

Currently there is no method for an NJI pilot to transfer to NJA other than interview and be hired at the bottom of the seniority list. Should the IBB proposal pass and the company recognizes single carrier provisions, NJI pilots will eventually be integrated with NJA pilots based on DOH. They will be able to bid NJA positions after certain restrictions and fences are eventually removed.

 

[johnsonrod]

I would go to NJA given those two choices. Who knows what will happen with NWA in the future. I wouldn't want to live with that insecurity every day.

Put me in a Citation X at Netjets on 7/7 out of one of those 100 domiciles (if the TA passes) and I'd be happy - especially with that new starting salary.