New ALPA Message to USAirways Pilots pt 3

[grog_sit_reserv]

And finally....

13. Is the Rice Committee making progress?
Yes. The Rice Committee has continued to explore consensual solutions that will promote career advancement and protection for both pilot groups. The talks have centered on career advancement, furlough protection for all pilots, and the “durability” of any possible solution in another company transaction.
But as the committee reported earlier, any solutions must be based on facts. For example, since the award was issued, the company has recalled all furloughees, and a large number of AAA pilots decided not to return. That reduces the number of Captain years that East pilots earlier argued were sacrificed in the award.
Recent system bids have also altered the look of the airline by providing Captain awards to many pilots—including E-190 Captain slots to pilots back from furlough a few months ago. Even if a new contract were finished today, customary implementation delays would produce further attrition vacancies for East pilots. West pilot frustration with this fact has to be considered and balanced by considering growth opportunities that will occur over the reasonably foreseeable future. These facts shed light on and give hope that consensual solutions are possible, but both pilot groups must participate fully for that to happen.
That’s why the Rice Committee has asked East representatives to provide more information and to review earlier analyses of the level of protection they assert is needed to accomplish East career advancement objectives. These requests are being carried out by the East JNC. The Rice Committee has demanded that the Company provide information about its growth and expansion plans to help assess whether and what kind of measures might be appropriate. Management has indicated that this information would be available around October 1, so we expect to hear from them soon.
14. Do you need more information?
US Airways pilots and their families can and should participate in the industry recovery. All it takes is for both pilot groups to commit to Rice Committee discussions and for both groups to engage fully in joint negotiations that move US Airways pilots back to mainstream industry rates and contract terms.
If you need more information on any of the above subjects or issues, please e-mail ALPA at [email protected]. Please give a phone number at which you can be reached in case the information can be better provided that way.​

 

[zymotic]

Very informative (for a guy from the outside looking in). Was this put out by ALPA national?

 

[PositiveRate]

Grog - but don't forget, you got a huge windfall.

I can't believe they're upgrading people who were on the street 2 yrs ago.

The junior west guys have been dealt the largest helping of sh^t in this deal and anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.

 

[linecheck]

Very informative (for a guy from the outside looking in). Was this put out by ALPA national?

Yes, it was put out by National.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

It was an ALPA communique... but after only hearing USAPA guys for a while, its refreshing to finally get ALPA national's take on the situation.

 

[weasel_lips]

They are about 150 cards short, this letter should take care of that problem nicely.

 

[PCL_128]

They are about 150 cards short, this letter should take care of that problem nicely.

I don't believe their numbers on the cards, but it doesn't really matter. When it comes down to a vote, I still don't think it will pass. You won't get any of the AWA guys to vote to decertify, and there will be enough intelligent minds on the East side to keep USAPA from getting the majority they need.

 

[BeCareful!]

Grog - but don't forget, you got a huge windfall.

I can't believe they're upgrading people who were on the street 2 yrs ago.

The junior west guys have been dealt the largest helping of sh^t in this deal and anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.

I can't believe that either.....probably because it's not true.

So a guy furloughed twice (not me) and now facing a third furlough before Dave hasn't eaten enough sh^t? What sacrafices have you guys made....some stagnation? Doug says that's better than not having a job, which is what would have happened absent this merger.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

No, its true. F'd guys can come back as 190 Captains and some have.

Also, I believe just over 100 guys got upgraded out east last bid.

Who is facing a third furlough? Certainly nobody at USAirways. We are now hiring off the street.

Why should he sacrifice anything? He was working at AWA and never intended to work at USAir. The sacrifices of the AAA pilots were because of YEARS of mismanagement and TWO, count 'em ONE... TWO... trips into Bankruptcy.

They sacrificed to save their own jobs. They did and now they got acquired... er merged. The 18 year fo on reserve in DCA is still on reserve, and the 4 year fo at AWA is still on reserve in PHX.

 

[Guppiedriver]

I'm willing to bet that at least 20% of the cards that were sent in, are from furloughee's. When these pilots sent in their cards, they all had recall rights. Now fast forward a few months and now they don't. When or if a representation vote is called for, USAPA will fall well short of the votes needed.

Time to move on.

 

[BeCareful!]

No, its true. F'd guys can come back as 190 Captains and some have.

F'd guys? F'd guys? Geezus, these are people with families, mortgages, college to pay for. They've been through hell for 16 years.

Also, I believe just over 100 guys got upgraded out east last bid.

Oh!!! Those greedy bastards!!! 100 pilots who've worked at this airline, in the east where all the revenue is made, continuously for over 20 years. Jeeze, those upgrade should have gone west. I wonder how bad you'll be crying about slow advancement after the next merger.

Who is facing a third furlough? Certainly nobody at USAirways. We are now hiring off the street.

That's probably the most naive quote ever on this board....!

Who's facing a third furlough? every East pilot hired since 1988, while no West pilot will likely ever have to share that pain.

Hiring off the street? That means there won't be furloughs? What F'en planet are you on? Is it a junior base?

Why should he sacrifice anything? He was working at AWA and never intended to work at USAir.

And most East pilots never intended to work at AWA, especially when it was a bottom feeder. So....what's your point? That if a pilot never intended to work at a different airline then he should just cruise through life? WTF are you talking about?

The 18 year fo on reserve in DCA is still on reserve, and the 4 year fo at AWA is still on reserve in PHX.

Right. And that means........?

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Who is facing a third furlough? Certainly nobody at USAirways. We are now hiring off the street.

Why should he sacrifice anything? He was working at AWA and never intended to work at USAir. The sacrifices of the AAA pilots were because of YEARS of mismanagement and TWO, count 'em ONE... TWO... trips into Bankruptcy.

They sacrificed to save their own jobs. They did and now they got acquired... er merged.

Isn't this the same line of reasoning the AA guys used to staple the TWA pilots? Do you support the actions of the APA with their merger?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

It means nothing has changed as a result of the award. He still holds what he held.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Ah Frank... No. This is not anything like the APA/TWA deal. But hey, thanks for posting.


Shouldn't you be hard at work right now putting together a deal to buy this airline, break us up and and sell us off.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

BeCareful....

With your logic, every pilot in the industry is facing furlough. EVERY PILOT. And you know what, you're right. We could all lose our jobs.

But it is obvious you're as blind as the rest of the USAPA dorks and can't get over the fact that you got slotted with relative seniority to a young airline.

Sorry. USAir has been a loser for the last, oh I don't know, since they bought PSA back in '87 so that would be about 20 years. Everyone who went to work there in the interim knew it sucked there seeing as how they all said USAirways stood for Unfortunately Still Allegheny. So guess what, the jokes on you guys.

You got bought, you took it to an arbritator and he saw through all your weak arguments.

Welcome to the new USAirways no longer Allegheny. Quit, or get in line, but this battle is over.

 

[wscrj]

Ah Grog....still trying to apply logic and common sense to a highly emotional issue. Did you learn nothing at your former employer?!

Silly caveman.

 

[Fast43]

F'd guys? F'd guys? Geezus, these are people with families, mortgages, college to pay for. They've been through hell for 16 years.


How silly of those of us at AWA, none of us have families or mortgages or even college to pay for. Indeed you have been through hell for 16 years and I insist on trashing my own career to fix yours
.


in the east where all the revenue is made, continuously for over 20 years.



Jeeze, I guess you haven't read financial papers for over 20 years because "all" the revenue you speak of was barely enough to get AAA into BANKRUPTCY twice. Only to emerge after the 2nd time after the efforts and agreement of the CEO of AWA. Could it be why Lakefield remarked at how this was more than YOU could have hoped for....................



Just what brand of CRACK do you guys smoke over there and keep a medical ?????????????

/////

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I can't believe they're upgrading people who were on the street 2 yrs ago.

The junior west guys have been dealt the largest helping of sh^t in this deal and anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.

You were hired with AWA in October of 2004 with 2900 hours Total Time, and you are complaining about a guy that was hired in 1988 getting a Captain seat in the most junior airplane!!???

Most of the Junior guys on the Airways seniority list still have more time of active service than you do with the carrier and they have been furloughed for 6 years!!

There are folks at AWA that have a right to bi#$h about items like this........however you are not one of them.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

You won't get any of the AWA guys to vote to decertify, and there will be enough intelligent minds on the East side to keep USAPA from getting the majority they need.

I got no dog in this fight but you forgot one thing....this vote is only for the East guys...not the west guys.

 

[PCL_128]

I got no dog in this fight but you forgot one thing....this vote is only for the East guys...not the west guys.

Not true. As far as the NMB is concerned, this is a single bargaining unit now, and both East and West will have a vote. In order for the decert to go through, USAPA will have to convince a majority of the combined total group to vote for it.

 

[abefly]

I got no dog in this fight but you forgot one thing....this vote is only for the East guys...not the west guys.

NO actually the vote is for all US Air Pilots...East and West.....Since they have the higher majority of pilots they could force the west pilots to USAPA...after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to the west pilots after years of law suits.....

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

USAPA... It will be easy to prove that it was created to F the West pilots which is a big no-no with the NMB.

ALPA might go away but USAPA will not be the union. Another lawsuit lost by the remnants of the East.

 

[glasspilot1]

No. This is not anything like the APA/TWA deal.

Unlike APA/TWA, AAA and AWA is a ALPA on ALPA merger and so should go according to ALPA merger policy. Unless one party throws a hissy fit and then it's up for grabs!

 

[glasspilot1]

Hey, even if AAA(east) succeeds in throwing out ALPA aren't they still bound by the binding arbitration?

Just asking.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Binding arbitration will be upheld. Even USAPA thinks it will remain.

What USAPA aims to do now is build fences between the groups to shut out the West pilots from upgrades. Ala republic/northwest.

Nice bunch of guys... trying to cloak themselves by saying we're for all the USAirways Pilots while at the same time trying to F a third of the pilots on property.

 

[Crzipilot]

I guess 1/3 screwed is better than 2/3???? couldn't resist...

 

[PHXFLYR]

F'd guys? F'd guys? Geezus, these are people with families, mortgages, college to pay for. They've been through hell for 16 years.





Oh!!! Those greedy bastards!!! 100 pilots who've worked at this airline, in the east where all the revenue is made, continuously for over 20 years. Jeeze, those upgrade should have gone west. I wonder how bad you'll be crying about slow advancement after the next merger.




That's probably the most naive quote ever on this board....!

Who's facing a third furlough? every East pilot hired since 1988, while no West pilot will likely ever have to share that pain.

Hiring off the street? That means there won't be furloughs? What F'en planet are you on? Is it a junior base?



And most East pilots never intended to work at AWA, especially when it was a bottom feeder. So....what's your point? That if a pilot never intended to work at a different airline then he should just cruise through life? WTF are you talking about?




Right. And that means........?

That you are the biggest a$$hole ever to set foot in an airplane.


Phxflyr

 

[weasel_lips]

Binding arbitration will be upheld. Even USAPA thinks it will remain.

What USAPA aims to do now is build fences between the groups to shut out the West pilots from upgrades. Ala republic/northwest.

Nice bunch of guys... trying to cloak themselves by saying we're for all the USAirways Pilots while at the same time trying to F a third of the pilots on property.

Yes, a 20 year fence was it?

 

[A350]

Grog:

If your greatest ambition in life was to be an airline pilot and work for AWA, then that is your choice.

USAir was one of the top places to work in 1987 and with the exception of the furlough in 1990 that lasted 7 years, was head and shoulders above AWA. And it was still head and shoulders above AWA after the first bankruptcy. Hell, we still had a pension.

Your'e right. We had $hitty management. However, we had 455 aircraft and we received a new Airbus every week for two years, including the A330's. We made millions of dollars in the good years. Our FO's made more than your CA's for YEARS. Now you come off like AWA was the Pan Am of the 90's. What a joke. We furloughed more pilots than AWA has. So much for being the place to work.

You think it is fair that a guy hired in 1999 will never face furlough while a guy hired in 1988 can lose his job the next industry downturn? Not one AWA pilot will ever lose his job. The East pilots bear that responsibility on their own. Forgive them if they don't go away quietly.

The 100 or so Easties who upgraded deserved every one of the upgrades...because it was their attrition that led to the vacancy in the first place. You think you deserve it? You think if you were offered a job from wherever the hell you came from in 1999 at USAir you would have told them no? I doubt it.

You can say what you want, it is a free country. I think you are being quite untruthful with yourself if you believe any of the stuff you say.

A350

 

[eaglefly]

Binding arbitration will be upheld. Even USAPA thinks it will remain.

What USAPA aims to do now is build fences between the groups to shut out the West pilots from upgrades. Ala republic/northwest.

Nice bunch of guys... trying to cloak themselves by saying we're for all the USAirways Pilots while at the same time trying to F a third of the pilots on property.

Then U management will act.

They'll begin transferring your aircraft to the west and having them flown by others.

They're not (and should not) be held hostage by a bunch of infantile crybabies demanding their way at any and all costs.

U will be much better off in the long run.